Market Trends

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John Hagan

Grumbler in Training
Joined
Jan 3, 2002
Posts
7
Loc
New York, NY
Could anyone provide some market data regarding the pichure framing industry such as sales trends (especially in NY, MASS, Conn.) I'd like to see where the PF market has and is going. ALso general demographics of people who buy (big) in this industry. Your help is appreciated, but please don't send me to a web site where I have to register....!
 
Get this month's Art Business News. The APA (Art Publishers Assoc,) just did an indepth study of "wall decor". It covers who buys what and where. Their ages, and their whole demographics.

Next join the PPFA. The PMA will be giving us this kind of marketing studies.

Betty
 
That's what I won't do...20years+ and most of you know that a rookie with a CPF even w/ 5 years of experience wont match someone like myself who keeps on top of things - its just more $ out of my pocket. I'm sure this info is somewhere that's why I like this forum!!! So I need another source!! And yes the one thing I have not paid attention to are the market trends simply because business has been amazing since '91. Thanks!
 
John

You seem like a real nice guy......... I'm confused so maybe you can clear something up for me, if you are so on top of things what are you looking for further information for? or is it that you are really trying to say that what you are on top of is suspect.

Suggestion.... go to a few trade shows to update yourself on trends etc. that's where it happens and the trade journals are also a very good source, bar hacking into the manufacturers or trade associations sites there is very little to be found out there, though please let me know if I'm wrong I'm humble enough to be corrected, I too like new sources of information.

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Dermot
"May you never forget what is worth remembering, or remember what is best forgotten"

[This message has been edited by Dermot (edited January 16, 2002).]
 
Maybe the first suggestion that I might offer to become successful and understand yor market is to listen and absorb. Both in Mega-quantity. Use and apply that which is relevant; discard that which is of no value. It is as old as market research, itself.

For the life of me, I don't see what's wrong with what Betty offered. I think for someone with little or no knowledge of the questions asked, any and all help should be appreciated.

The only thing better to more knowledge is...well, there isn't anything better. Get it from as many sources as you can. Just be smart enough to be able to analyze the data effectively
 
John,
A few questions for you:

1. Where did you get the trade background for all of the members of the board of the PPFA/PMA and those staff members who supply information to their members? (You apparently have all this information at your disposal to be able to condemn these organizations openly).

2. What have you been using for the past 20+ years to gauge the new offerings in your gallery or frame shop or whatever type of business you operate? (I assume you are a business owner by this time).

3. Why did it take you all this time to sign up with the Grumble? A person with 20+ years experience MUST have heard of this forum by now!

4. Finally, if I worked a block away from the White House for the past 20+ years, would that in itself supply me with the experience and knowledge to qualify me for the position of president? Why wouldn't 5 years of working there and really dedicating myself also give me some kind of qualifications?

Your borderline rude response to Betty N's suggestions, I believe, warrant further information from you regarding your own credentials.

Sincerely,
Framerguy


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Ol' Tom Cat

****4 mitered corners away from that perfect frame****

www.touchthewild.net
 
I have decided, in the spirit of goodwill and to keep this thread on somewhat of a positive note, to edit out the comments that were made in this post. If anyone including John was insulted I apologize. When somebody gets my dander up I sometimes over-react.

Sincerely,
Framerguy

To keep things perfectly clear and in perspective, the comments I made in the previous post stand as written. Those few who read the follow-up in THIS post may understand why I chose to delete it.

[This message has been edited by framerguy (edited January 16, 2002).]

[This message has been edited by framerguy (edited January 16, 2002).]

[This message has been edited by framerguy (edited January 16, 2002).]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by John Hagan:
That's what I won't do........20years+ and most of you know .......... So I need another source!! ..................simply because business has been amazing since '91.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So John, If business has been THIS Good $$$, then what's a hundred bucks a year to garnish a little more information?

Just a suggestion.......but I think if you filled out your profile, you'd gain a bit more respect.

I know of framers with many more years experience than myself who belong to our various associations, still take seminars and participate on the discussion forums.....Paul Frederick for example. He recognizes that despite his 50+ years of industry experience, You never stop learning!


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The Frame Workshop of Appleton, Inc.
www.theframeworkshop.com
Appleton, Wisconsin
jerserwi@aol.com
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[This message has been edited by John Ranes II, CPF, GCF (edited January 16, 2002).]
 
Whoa -hold up-
My apologies if anyone was offended - that clearly was not my attention.

All I hoped to find is the hard market data that exists now. This seems like a place where someone may know the info offhand so I asked that's all.

I clearly know MY market so I never needed hard regional market data, but as I expand a loan officer might.

I also spent most of my life overcoming dyslexia my apologies for the grammer/spelling. It is a proud accomplishment just to type this sentance - think before you prejudge that was uncalled for.
 
John Ranes you beat me too it! For a professional organization, the dues for the PPFA have always been cheap, and are even cheaper now since aliance with PMA! And if they continue on the same track they are on expanding the educational oportunities, especially on the local level, it will be well worth it. I pay 5 times as much in dues for some professional organizations I belong to and get similar benefits.

And being a CPF is worth it too! No matter how much you think you know about framing, there is so much information covered in studying for the exam you can't help but learn something new. Even the most experienced framers I know have been amazed at how much they had to learn to take their CPF exam. Besides, most of the people who take the CPF are the ones who have a strong desire to keep learning in the framing industry.

Anne LeBouton, CPF since 1991
 
Well, well well--our brethren here has opened mouth and inserted foot.

As Rush Limbaugh says "words mean things" Spoken words mean things because you hear inflections Written words mean even more because the reader can't judge tones and shades of meaning whilst reading.

As a CPF holder--and one who got their CPF at the earliest possible moment--and a business owner for "just" four years, I can attest to others' remarks here that I have taken apart many a frame job from a "high end" gallery here in town (and the job only two years old) to find cardboard and masking tape surrounding a very costly limited edition print.

Years of business ownership without proper knowledge is dangerous. We now control this customer's business and order for her all her limited edition work--and it's the artt out of Art Business News worth much money.,

Just my two cents here.

I can see no reason NOT to join PPFA, if not just for the savings in insurance premiums and the toll-free helpline.

Yes, sir, even CPFs need a helpline now and again.

Have a nice life.



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Michael LeCompte CPF
The Great Frame Up
 
To paraphrase Aynn Rand:
"who is John Hagan?"

No e-mail, no website, no interests

Could he be like "slowwalkintexan"?

Remember him?

Was he for real too???

AAAHHHH smell the ether of the internet.

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Michael LeCompte CPF
The Great Frame Up
 
Welcome to The Grumble, John. Now you know why it's called that...

Your PPFA comment must have hit a nerve with everyone who has earned the designation, which is no small achievement. "A rookie with a CPF" might not match a 20-year framer who "keeps on top of things", but a veteran CPF probably would, because he/she keeps more on top of things. Education is the key.

That notwithstanding, please reconsider the worth of a trade association for framers. Remember neighborhood hardware stores, hobby shops and locally-owned drug stores? They didn't have a strong trade association, and now they're gone from most communities. Florists have a strong association in FTD, and they're still here.

The picture framing industry, like those mentioned above, is under assault from big-box competition. A trade association is important now, and we have tall expectations for PPFA as a PMA affiliate.

As a New Yorker, you probably go to the New York show every year, right? Well, this year take all the classes you can fit into the schedule. That's also a good way to learn "where the PF market has (been) and is going".

[This message has been edited by Jim Miller (edited January 16, 2002).]
 
Jim-
Agreed! And thank you for not taking it personally and respecting my privacy. I have a great thing going here without really doing much but selling art & frames. I run the the business with very little problems, so whatever I'm doing aint broke so I will not waste my time with classes or assoc., etc! All I wanted was some general statistics !!

I think you bring up a good point re big box (not so much up here though) ...what is warren buffet doing w/ LJ & why. That is a thread that needs to be started and answered by those who might REALLY know-maybe the PPFA knows!
 
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by John Hagan:
...All I hoped to find is the hard market data that exists now.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

PPFA conducted a detailed study in 2000 (I think), and it may be the best available today.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by John Hagan:
...thank you for...respecting my privacy.
You're welcome, but like most Grumblers, I like to know who I'm communicating with. You'll get better responses here if you come out from under your cloak of anonymity.

...whatever I'm doing aint broke so I will not waste my time with classes or assoc., etc!
John, you should look up last spring's Grumble threads about PPFA. Deja vu. Any comments, Bob Carter?

Anyway, what good would general statistics do if you don't know how to interpret them and put them to work in the context of today's market?

I think you bring up a good point re big box...what is warren buffet doing w/ LJ & why. That is a thread that needs to be started...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, that thread doesn't need to be started again. The rumor about LJ going into direct retailing is absolutely nonsense. If LJ did that, their wholesale business would evaporate in a New York Minute.
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How anyone thinks that they can join a forum, and get any information, without sharing some information themselves, is beyond me. John Hagen, you might be actually a serious framer, honestly wanting information, but I won't be giving you any of MY market information without learning a little more about you.

You suggest that you want to expand... why would I want to tell you that my area is good, just so you can open a store right next to me?

Think, before you ask. Share, and we might share with you.

Sue
 
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