Question Making Canvas stretchers from scratch-not buying the bars-milling my own

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Presto

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Nanoose bay, BC ---Vancouver Island Canada The hou
Has anyone besides the usual suspects made their own stretchers from the beginning? I can mill and make profiles, have a full shop (even a laser) but would appreciate guidance. I don't have time to make all the mistakes myself.
I like making large heavy duty canvases with 2" bars, often 40" sq and up.
 
Save yourself the time and trouble by purchasing bars with 2 lips so the can be turned up to get the 2" depth. You can also get Nickell Moulding to do a run for you.

Keep in mind that any savings you accumulate making them will be lost if a simple accident occurs making it impossible for you to do anything.
 
Presto said:
Has anyone besides the usual suspects made their own stretchers from the beginning? I can mill and make profiles, have a full shop (even a laser) but would appreciate guidance. I don't have time to make all the mistakes myself.
I like making large heavy duty canvases with 2" bars, often 40" sq and up.
Click to expand...

I make them myself and always have. I make 300' at a time. It takes me about 3 hours. No planing or sanding needed because i use an 80 tooth carbide blade which cuts very smoothly. These are the steps:

1. Rip boards 1 5/8" wide using clear pine (or whatever width you want).
2. Cut offset (1/8").
3. Set blade at 45 degrees and shave off sharp corner "*".
;) DONE.

When i am stretching canvas larger than 18 x 24 i add scrap pieces at a 45 degree to all corners. Do so and the stretcher bars will stay perfectly straight and square.
 
prospero said:
If you want keyed corners it gets considerably more complicated. :icon11: You can get machines just for doing this job, but they cost quite a bit.
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Thank you-This is what I am looking for information about. Do you know a manufacturers or producers name so I can see it. Usually if I can see one I don't have to re invent it. I was thinking of using my shaper for this.
 
Kelly @ Nickell said:
We actually stock a 2" reversible stretcher bar. On our site it is part# 81060-000.

Not to deter you from wanting to make your own of course.
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Thank you Kelly, I just checked your site, and can't find a search area to find your part. (suggestion) They are nice Moldings.
Actually I can already mill the whole thing, but I'm interested in the keying so I can expand the frame if needed. It bothers me that most painters (in our area) only paint on strainers, and what I'd like to offer is stretchers. I think there's a market here for custom, large canvases.
 
Presto said:
Thank you Kelly, I just checked your site, and can't find a search area to find your part. (suggestion) They are nice Moldings.
Actually I can already mill the whole thing, but I'm interested in the keying so I can expand the frame if needed. It bothers me that most painters (in our area) only paint on strainers, and what I'd like to offer is stretchers. I think there's a market here for custom, large canvases.
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Check out the "Best-Key Corner System" from Jack Richeson. It's a metal bracket that can be used on strainers without the need to build a keying system.
 
I REALLY don't understand this thread. Cost of stretchers and strainers are so minimal and the markup is so good why would anyone want to spend the time & money to manufacture their own, which in the end, will cost more than what they pay when purchasing from a supplier. The only reason, in my way of thinking, would be because they want to build something that isn't available on the market. Personally, I haven't found a stretching job that I can't find the proper stretcher or strainer for - but I haven't done anything that is more than 74" in 1 direction.
 
Try alibaba.com they got many Chinese manufacturers who can produce very cheaply what you need + More
 
If I wanted to do this project I would buy a set of standard sized ones, give them to my tooling supplier and say "I want to make these" along with your shaper specs. Then build a two-level sled with miter and 90° fences, stack both sets on the spindle and cut one end then the other.

As to questions of the economic feasibility of this kind of project, I would agree that you can get them cheaper from production sources as long as you are using standard sizes. Once you need a 48-3/4 x 70-1/2 that theory is out the window. Yes, there are places that do custom sizes (Foster's and Jack Richeson come to mind), but if you are doing quite a few I can see that it could be cheaper to make your own.
 
Here's a link to Simon Liu's website. Click on Stretchers, then look at the variety offered.
http://simonliuinc.com/
 
Joe B said:
I REALLY don't understand this thread.
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I make my own stretcher frames for two reasons. 1) Price - According to the price list at Simon Liu it would cost $18 plus shipping to build a 24" by 36" frame. I do it daily for a dollar and never a warped bar. 2) Size - Cotton canvas rarely prints exactly to the inch so I make my frames to the nearest sixteenth of an inch ensuring perfect mirror-wrap alignment. I won't even mention inventory...
 
jferrari said:
I make my own stretcher frames for two reasons. 1) Price - According to the price list at Simon Liu it would cost $18 plus shipping to build a 24" by 36" frame. I do it daily for a dollar and never a warped bar. 2) Size - Cotton canvas rarely prints exactly to the inch so I make my frames to the nearest sixteenth of an inch ensuring perfect mirror-wrap alignment. I won't even mention inventory...
Click to expand...

And you are keeping control of another skill set needed for picture framing...
 
wpfay said:
Here's a link to Simon Liu's website. Click on Stretchers, then look at the variety offered.
http://simonliuinc.com/
Click to expand...
Thank you - Actually I get a lot by looking at the different ways of building stretchers, as I can figure out how they'd be made in my shop. Being a novice picture framer but a person who has done woodwork for many years I have skills, and tools, but lack experience. It may be creative to re invent the wheel, but several people may have come up with good solutions already.
To those that say I should buy stretcher bars- you may be right -but Vancouver Island is a bit remote for unusual supplies- 2-1/2 hours drive to the nearest quality art store, yet even they don't offer stretchers, only strainers. Much still is shipped in from the rst of Canada,& the States, and it takes a while to get supplies. Also this is the area of Canada know as a strip mall for artists (.05% of Canadians say they make their living at art-but in our region it's 5%), so it's a good place to be doing this.
Custom made stretcher makers seem to be few and far between. I've found John Annesley in California and now Simon Liu in New york. "Regular stretcher bars (3/4") are okay for small pictures, but we have painters who want to make 30" + & Up. We also have several European Painters here who want metric sized pictures (120x 200 and so on). I think this can be a good service for the area, and cost little more than strainers to make.
 
jferrari said:
I make my own stretcher frames for two reasons. 1) Price - According to the price list at Simon Liu it would cost $18 plus shipping to build a 24" by 36" frame. I do it daily for a dollar and never a warped bar. 2) Size - Cotton canvas rarely prints exactly to the inch so I make my frames to the nearest sixteenth of an inch ensuring perfect mirror-wrap alignment. I won't even mention inventory...
Click to expand...

I agree- also I think you and I come from similar environments- ready access to good lumber; so it becomes economical to do this.
 
There is a system which is a sort of half-way between fully keyed joints and solid corners. If you get some standard strainer moulding and run a groove along the inside with a table saw, you can insert thin plywood triangles into the saw kerf. It sounds a bit iffy, but actually works quite well and is handy for making up odd sized stretcher frames that you may need to tension slightly. Not the same level of control as a proper keyed corner, but for some canvases you don't really need it.
The trick is to get ply that fits nice and snug. The bigger the frame, the bigger the triangles. There is a bit of a knack to doing it this way, but on the whole it works well.
 
jferrari said:
According to the price list at Simon Liu it would cost $18 plus shipping to build a 24" by 36" frame. I do it daily for a dollar ...
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Are you located in China?

In the USA, $60/hr is an average reasonable cost for shop time. That gives you one minute to mill at least 10' of moulding and miter it (with a keyable joint?), and that's assuming that somehow you got the material for free.

If, for some reason you count your time worthless, a 3/4" x 1-1/2" stick will come out of roughly a 2" wide part of a board, which in the best case scenario will translate to about 1-2/3 Board Feet for a 10' long piece assuming no waste. The least expensive clear material, bought wholesale in 1000 BF units will cost at least $1.50/BF. In this case, your material cost (again, assuming no waste, which is not very realistic) is $2.50/10' piece. Note that the above assumption will yield a total of approx 6000 LF. Smaller quantities and/or additional waste will increase the cost.

If one could make mitered stretcher for $0.10/LF I would be beyond ecstatic, and I am buying material at trailer load prices and milling on industrial equipment. Everybody and their brother would be jumping on the bandwagon and milling stretcher for $0.10/LF and then Simon Liu would be out of business or have lowered his price to a "reasonable" level.

jferrari said:
...and never a warped bar.
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Impossible.

I've been in the wood business over 30 years. I will say unequivocally that there is no way to mill wood and have it stay straight consistently. Again, if it were possible, everybody would be doing it.
 
David N Waldmann said:
Are you located in China?
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OK, David, here's how I do it. First, I'm about 50 miles from China. China MAINE, USA, that is. I buy 1000LF lifts of 5/4" x 6" spruce decking culls for $180 bucks and do my own sorting to prevent using any defects or warped pieces. I then rip the stock to an inch and a half wide, yielding three pieces, which brings my material cost to .066 cents per LF (30% to 40% waste factor.) Second, I don't use a mitered corner. I use a simple butt joint, one screw in a pre-drilled counter bore and some glue. This method has less waste than a mite joint, is just as accurate and allows for easy adjustment into plane. I did not include any labor cost for assembling the bars just to keep apples to apples. Unfortunately I cannot command sixty bucks an hour for labor but I can assemble and profile a canvas stretcher frame in just a few minutes.

I acknowledge that my method is unorthodox and may not be right for everyone but I am forced to compete with the Wally Worlds, Sam's, Walgreen's, and the myriad of online canvas printers, etc. so I do what I can.

I sell wholesale to photographers. A 16" x 24" RTH canvas print is $37.20. No room for an expensive frame. - Jim
 
What happens to the bead with a butt joint? I can't picture it. Plus, you are not making a stretcher bar, you are making a strainer. I thought this thread was about making stretchers?
 
Alternatively, here is an Italian system that one can purchase if you want to produce adjustable stretchers and cross supports. The machine is relatively inexpensive and uses a router as a motor. All you would need is good quality stretcher stock that is wide enough to fit the hardware.















[video=youtube;L96JZik1oPQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L96JZik1oPQ[/video]

P.E.R. BELLE ARTI di Pieraccini Riccardo Elio
Sede legale: Via dei Metalmeccanici, 60 - 55041 CAPEZZANO PIANORE (LU) - ITALY
Tel: +39 0584 969554 Fax: +39 0584 969535
e-mail: info@pieraccini.com - website: www.pieraccini.com
 
Rob Markoff said:
What happens to the bead with a butt joint? I can't picture it. Plus, you are not making a stretcher bar, you are making a strainer. I thought this thread was about making stretchers?
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Rob, you are correct. Technically I am making a strainer. My apologies to the OP as I am off topic.
 
JFeig said:
I can'gt imagine that your purchase is kiln dried and or will stay flat and straight.
Click to expand...

It is kiln dried to 14% to 18% at the mill then has acclimated to local RH storage at my shop. Obviously not furniture grade stock but I've had no issues.
 
Rob Markoff said:
Alternatively, here is an Italian system that one can purchase if you want to produce adjustable stretchers and cross supports. The machine is relatively inexpensive and uses a router as a motor. All you would need is good quality stretcher stock that is wide enough to fit the hardware.















[video=youtube;L96JZik1oPQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L96JZik1oPQ[/video]

P.E.R. BELLE ARTI di Pieraccini Riccardo Elio
Sede legale: Via dei Metalmeccanici, 60 - 55041 CAPEZZANO PIANORE (LU) - ITALY
Tel: +39 0584 969554 Fax: +39 0584 969535
e-mail: info@pieraccini.com - website: www.pieraccini.com
Click to expand...
Bella Arti is what it appears to be - beautiful work comes from this. I imagine the fittings are not cheap however, even if the router is. It gives me more ideas to play with however. I very much appreciate the time and trouble you spent finding this. :smiley:
 
I was looking for a way to turn lengths of Stretcher bars into keyed stretcher bars.
I'd estimate that less than 10% of the canvases that come to us are in non fractional inches.
I'd love to be able to use stretchers for these, not strainers.
Is there a machine that can be purchased?
A set of instructions for making a jig? I love making Jigs.
I found this old thread on the topic, but everyone seemed to be trying to dissuade the OP from doing this very thing.

Thanks,
Brian
 
Check out this thread
www.thegrumble.com

Stretcher Bar

I am placing my first order for inventory and not trying to conquer the world (well at least not yet anyways ;) ) I would like to carry one profile of stretcher bar what kind of recommendations do you have? ( I will be ordering from International Moulding) Thanks!
www.thegrumble.com www.thegrumble.com
 
On the facebook group framing.academy, we have been discussing this old piece of hardware that was once used to make stretchers adjustable. They are no longer made, but supposedly the patent is now in the public domain. It seems they would be a useful addition to our work. Calling Peter at 888... does this look like something you might be interested in making and offering for sale?
:cool: Rick
297584607_10224661320833208_8742902148854981620_n.jpg
 
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