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Beauty, Brawn, and Brains: Wizard Z1 CMC

Opinions Wanted Low volume equipment and methodology

Shayla

WOW Framer
Forum Donor
Joined
Apr 5, 2008
Messages
31,655
The college art folks I know take a narrow approach to frame design. Most will only use a white mat, with either black or natural light maple frame. I can see the value in keeping a simple, clean design aesthetic for art shows, as the continuity drives focus to the art. But there are so many times when, for another setting, something else is better.

That said, when a tired, outdated piece is brought in for reframing, it often revives when the matchy-matchy framing is removed and it can breathe. More often than not, this includes a much simpler mat design, with a clean frame line.
 

cvm

PFG, Picture Framing God
Joined
Feb 19, 2008
Messages
7,990
I had a girlfriend that went to art school. I have no idea what she was taught about framing.

 

jdk

Grumbler
Thread starter
Joined
Jan 22, 2020
Messages
16
I can see the value in keeping a simple, clean design aesthetic for art shows, as the continuity drives focus to the art.

This never made sense to me. It's acknowledging that the frame is important - you must have one - but it's also not important - everything has to be the same so you don't notice it. The frame is an extension of the piece...that's a large part of why I'm embarking on doing it myself.
 

Nikodeumus

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Joined
Apr 21, 2015
Messages
747
Hmmm....business opportunity anyone?
Develop a syllabus (Is that the right word? I'm not edumacated very good😜 ) that can be incorporated into an art school curriculum to teach prospective artists that framing is NOT the enemy of art pieces?
It sounds like a career for someone who is both a professional artist and a professional framer.

Think of the advantages to new artists who were better able to sell their works with well thought out complimentary framing, instead of what is cheapest, or *cringe* "Doesn't take away from my art".

Just a thought. I'm not an artist, educator, or business person. So I don't really know what I'm talking about.
 

Shayla

WOW Framer
Forum Donor
Joined
Apr 5, 2008
Messages
31,655
This never made sense to me. It's acknowledging that the frame is important - you must have one - but it's also not important - everything has to be the same so you don't notice it. The frame is an extension of the piece...that's a large part of why I'm embarking on doing it myself.

I once had an artist bring in a piece by the director of a college gallery. When I came up with a good design, she hesitated. She said that since he only put white mats and light maple frames on his work, he might be upset if she did this. I said there are two ways of looking at it. One was, to do only what he would do. The other was, since it would hang in her house, to frame it how she liked. After pondering, she got brave and went with the colored design. Months later, she told me that he'd come to her house and stood looking for awhile at the piece. She waited, and he finally said, 'That is an excellent frame design.' He still only uses white with maple, and I'm glad she has what she likes.
 
Vermont Hardwoods solid wood picture frame molding

tedh

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Joined
Nov 7, 2005
Messages
11,928
The college art folks I know take a narrow approach to frame design. Most will only use a white mat, with either black or natural light maple frame. I can see the value in keeping a simple, clean design aesthetic for art shows, as the continuity drives focus to the art. But there are so many times when, for another setting, something else is better.

That said, when a tired, outdated piece is brought in for reframing, it often revives when the matchy-matchy framing is removed and it can breathe. More often than not, this includes a much simpler mat design, with a clean frame line.

Shayla, we're getting a significant number of outdated pieces coming in to be refreshed, and that's exactly what's happening - totally reviving them.
 

Prospero

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Joined
Jul 16, 2007
Messages
19,303
I started framing to frame my own work. Some of my first framing efforts were a bit dodgy. 😕

40 years later I don't paint much. Except frames for other artists. 🤣
 

Nikodeumus

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Joined
Apr 21, 2015
Messages
747
The other was, since it would hang in her house, to frame it how she liked. After pondering, she got brave and went with the colored design.
I like to do a similar thing with clients who feel they "aren't good" at choosing custom framing.
I show them a few design ideas.
If they can't decide and ask "what would you choose"?
I say "I'm not going to look at this everyday. Here are two ideas. Either one is aesthetically appealing, which of these do you like"?

Another tactic I use is to layout a handful of good options. If the customer just can't make up their mind of what they like (because they are worried they "don't know what looks good"), I do the opposite. I get them to remove the samples they don't like until they've weeded down the options to one. This usually works. Of course, I'll make suggestions if they are leaning towards something completely bizarre, but then again "To each their own".
 

alacrity8

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Joined
Sep 22, 2009
Messages
845
Many artists that I have worked with have had to frame their artwork *have us frame their artwork* for shows.
Many of them have had to cut mats with a straight edge and an Xacto Knife.
Many of them have been taught that the mat MUST have a weighted bottom.

Past that, no framing training seems common.

Brian
 
Beauty, Brawn, and Brains: Wizard Z1 CMC

Nikodeumus

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Joined
Apr 21, 2015
Messages
747
Is it me, or does it seem odd that framing isn't covered as part of formal art instruction?
As framers, we all know how important and effective framing is for showcasing artwork.
It seems like a major gap in the education/training of art in general.

Does a musician learn to play the guitar, but not know how to tune it?
Does a baker learn to bake bread, but not know how to measure ingredients?

I guess my viewpoint is biased because I learned to frame, but have no training/background in creating artwork?
I'm sure the issue looks different from the other side of the fence. :shrug:
 

Ylva

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Forum Support Team
Forum Donor
Joined
Jul 14, 2008
Messages
15,642
I started framing mainly to frame my own art and because no framer ever got it right, they way I wanted it.
Now I hardly spend time on creating art anymore.

I did t go to art school but I did almost two years of fashion school. It taught me a lot about color and design which I actually can implement in framing.
 

Prospero

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Joined
Jul 16, 2007
Messages
19,303
Is it me, or does it seem odd that framing isn't covered as part of formal art instruction?

I've known a few art students and a few art teachers and many have very lofty aspirations.
They tend to regard frames as a necessary evil and somehow a bit infra dig.
A bit like asking Beethoven to shift a piano. 🤣
 

CHolt

True Grumbler
Joined
Nov 20, 2012
Messages
91
Artist here; posting a few questions after searching through the valuable information already available.

I currently own zero equipment related to framing, but I have a commercial account set up with a manufacturer and the information I got from my rep was to buy a whole bunch of expensive equipment from Cassese. At my peak I hope to produce about a frame a week...maybe two (based on some of my preexisting sales info). I can't justify the purchase of big miter saws and even dropping 4 figures on an underpinner/v-nailer seems like a waste.

My most pressing question at this point relates to the manual 12" disc sanders that are available. I would think that you can only use half of the diameter (so 6" max), otherwise the grit will be pulling up on the finish, risking chipping. Is that correct? What's the best way to handle larger frame profiles? And I know ordering chop is an option, but I still want a way to address errant cuts should they arrive that way. I'm also not opposed to the motorized sanders; with a fine grit I'm not sure why there is such a reluctance to use them given their much lower cost.

Thanks!

Joe


My suggestion is to setup a table saw and build a mitre sled; you can get a sanding disk to fit the table saw arbor. Fit your mitres with a biscuit joiner and mitre vise. You ought to be able to construct each of your frames in a few hours working time or less.

 

Nikodeumus

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Joined
Apr 21, 2015
Messages
747
My suggestion is to setup a table saw and build a mitre sled; you can get a sanding disk to fit the table saw arbor. Fit your mitres with a biscuit joiner and mitre vise. You ought to be able to construct each of your frames in a few hours working time or less.

THat's amazing! 😲
Last night I was wondering if there were just such a thing.
I was trying to think of a way to chamfer the edges of plexiglass sheet. But, i don't have any proper plexi cutting tools.
Do you think that sanding disc would work? I don't see grit lower than 120, that probably wouldn't leave a smooth edge in plexiglass.
Hmm...you've given me something to think about.
Thanks! :thumbsup:
 
Beauty, Brawn, and Brains: Wizard Z1 CMC

Bob Carter

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Joined
Jun 16, 2000
Messages
14,651
lots of positive response on invaluable advice provided. Might be interesting to know how many of those benefitted contributed to 'Thanks, Bill' fund.

if not from this forum, where? ;)

that ought to be reason enough
 

wpfay

Comfort Badger
Forum Support Team
Forum Donor
Joined
Sep 1, 2000
Messages
11,085
My suggestion is to setup a table saw and build a mitre sled; you can get a sanding disk to fit the table saw arbor. Fit your mitres with a biscuit joiner and mitre vise. You ought to be able to construct each of your frames in a few hours working time or less.

If you have an accurate miter sled and a sharp blade, wouldn't that forgo the need for a miter sander? And if it isn't so accurate, then the sander won't be either. Am I missing something here?
I have a pretty good table saw (1967 Powermatic model 66) and an Incra protractor style angle jig (accurate to 1/10th a degree) as well as a homemade sled for crosscutting. With an 80 tooth Quinn blade the cuts are as slick as glass. There is no need to sand the cut.
 

CHolt

True Grumbler
Joined
Nov 20, 2012
Messages
91
If you have an accurate miter sled and a sharp blade, wouldn't that forgo the need for a miter sander? And if it isn't so accurate, then the sander won't be either. Am I missing something here?
I have a pretty good table saw (1967 Powermatic model 66) and an Incra protractor style angle jig (accurate to 1/10th a degree) as well as a homemade sled for crosscutting. With an 80 tooth Quinn blade the cuts are as slick as glass. There is no need to sand the cut.

You're exactly right. I had the same thought in mind but didn't elaborate.
 

TurnerAssociatesdy

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
Joined
Aug 23, 2007
Messages
230
Late 90's early 00's art schools graduate. We started our thesis project the 4th year. Half way through the semester we started to discuss presentation. Most students had never matted a piece of art. Thank goodness I went to community college first and my school made us mat everything. The second school, I had already worked for a wholesale frame distributor and worked for a couple frame shops. It was very hard to watch other students struggle and waste tons of money on methods they had no idea about. I told the teacher at this stage presentation was as important as the work created. Not sure they ever changed.

6 inch wide mouldings are best to have experienced wood handlers. Unless you really invest in machinery and education through an experienced person in wood working, it will be wasted money and time. Remember...DO what you do best. The more time you try to save money on framing...the more time you lose on what you create to sell.
 
Beauty, Brawn, and Brains: Wizard Z1 CMC
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