loss of quality on closed corner frames

gadgetgal

CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
Joined
Mar 9, 2005
Posts
135
Loc
St. Paul, MN
Is anyone else out there noticing a loss in quality on frames coming from Abe Munn, (aka APF these days?) Nothing comes looking like the sample, the gold has no life and the gesso seems to be some synthetic rubbery stuff that coats the entire frame, as if it was dipped. Hard edges? What are those? Crisp detail? What is that? What is going on?
gadgetgal, aka Sue Davis, Master Framers, St. Paul, MN
 
Sue, Have you called David Munn and talked with him about this before posting? I did have an issue with APF a while back (Jan) and it was resolved with a couple of phone calls.
 
Wally, I doubt that a couple of phone calls can resolve such a long list of complaints. But it may be worth a try. Hope dies last ;)

If what Gadgetgal is saying is right (and I know it is), there is very little to be done in near future about it. There are a just a few good, much smaller manufacturers able to offer a very narrow, overlapping inventory of antique picture frame reproductions. APF's edge comes from its huge (complete?) collection of such frames, from its unique half a century long heritage and expertise built around privileged connections with best museums and antique dealers in the world.

Most replicas made by other manufacturers except Munn and APF are some ridiculous, atrocious rendition of what some Mexican peasant now living in New York had learned from a relative who worked two years as a guilder for Munn or APF. But many don't know any better and are happy with that low quality and price.
Gadgetgal complaining about APF’s overall quality tells me that she happened to have lived better times when both APF and Munn were producing much, much better frames than today. Thirty-fourty years old APF corner samples were fabulous embodiments of now vanished culture and craftsmanship. That quality can't be resurrected any more for that craftsmanship and that culture are no longer THERE, or HERE. Current APF’s quality is a response to today’s market dominant demand and patterns.
 
Cornel,
I don't doubt that you know of what you speak, but a point of customer service is first best dealt with the vendor in private, not the rabble on-line (sorry guys and gals).
There has been no mention of trying to resolve any issues with the vendor before taking the matter public. I would think that you as a vendor would appreciate the courtesy of a private correspondence should anyone find issue with your product, and would hope for the same courtesy to any other vendor under the same conditions.
If gadgetgal has tried to resolve the issue with Munn, she hasn't stated so, and that is an issue I think should be addressed before we get into lamenting the state of the industry.
 
Cornel: I would liken what you describe to the building of a cathedral (not a "cathedral" frame ;) ). If one were to try to build a cathedral today like those of old, even if one were able to find artisans of comparable skill, knowlwdge, and experience (doubtful), equivalent quality materials (possible, but not likely), the cost would absolutely be prohibitive.
:cool: Rick
 
My shop has been dealing with Munn and APF for longer than I know. We have samples on the wall from both companies dating back to the sixties. If I am concerned about the finish matching my samples I mearly send the sample along with the order to them.

I do agree that matters such as this can be dealt with by speaking to the sales rep. I have a very good repore with David Munn at APF/Munn and have had issues in the past that were easily resolved with a phone call. Let them know that you don't like what you are seeing from them nad if they don't resolve it move on. But I doubt that you will need to do that. As big as they are they do value your business and your input. There are enough frame makers out there that they know that you don't have to go to them for your frame orders. Also, don't be affraid to send a frame back that you are unhappy about. They should cover the cost of the shipping and usualy will deal with it quickly.

But you are right. They have changed their techniques over previous years. Instead of spindle carving of their intricate mouldings they have moved to a resin moulding process. I choose not to promote these frames because I find it hard to explain to my client why they have to spend $200 per foot for a plastic Louis XV frame. If a client realy wants one of these frames I am still happy to ablige them.

At least with custom frame makers you can make a diference in the final product, unlike length mouldings made out of country.

If you want to try something diferent in closed corner frames that are beautiful and well made, you should take a look at whynots company American choice. Unlike anything on the market.
 
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