LJs new suggested Retail Charge Schedule

Create a Post
FrameMakers

FrameMakers

PFG, Picture Framing God
Joined
Mar 20, 2001
Posts
7,395
Loc
Powell, OH
I just got LJs new price list in the mail. I always like to check out thier suggested retail. I was shocked to see how much they suggest for mats and mounting. My prices are much lower in some cases 50% lower. Yet my glass was slightly higher.

16x20 Drymount = $23.12
16x20 Alpha mat = $24.40

Do any of you get this much for your framing?
 
Ours

Mount: $18
Mat: $28

Time to raise mount fee!
 
Whoa nelly!! I charge $12 and change for a 16x20 drymount! Of course, I use Masterpiece Drymount, the best in the industry.
 
That is what I charge too. That is why I posted to see if I was way low.
 
For us...

$16 for drymount and $18 single mat, but I'm thinking about raising my prices a bit pretty soon. I called around and I'm quite a bit lower than everyone else in town, need to be closer but still competetive.
 
Should we assume everything is 50% off?

Does anyone actually price their framing by the LJ recommended pricing? I would not, but I guess if a framer were new to the business and looking for benchmarks, LJ's recommendations would be an OK place to start.

If nothing else, those prices might inspire some framers to review and maybe rethink their pricing. Whether it needs to go up, or down, or stay the same, it never hurts to have comparisons, I guess.

Do you suppose LJ's biggest customer could have some influence on the recommended prices? Maybe we should divide them by half, to get realistic comparisons. :icon11:
 
Whoa, Val

You didn't fall asleep in my class when we discussed pricing did you? Okay, a lot of others did, so you would not have been alone

Never, never, never be the lowest price unless that position screams incredible price impresion. And, then only if you have protecetd your margins satisfactorily.

When you find yourself drastically underpriced start increasing the price slowly until you reach market levels to avoid that once in awhile shopper that actually may know your prices. I would split the difference instantly, though (if you are $12 and the market is $16, go, at least, to $14 immediately)

If the guy down the street gets $28 and you only charge $18, I would be embarrassed to admit that I knew it and did nothing

Don't make me revoke your Certificate of Completion

In fairness to LJ, at least they have given you a "guide" to many who are wandering in the wilderness. The smart merchant always understands his market and adjusts accordingly

I am certain the gang fromLJ would be the first to agree

One thing for certain if their prices were half as Jim suggests, then bet te farm that many would complain about them being too low
 
No Jim, I don't use them as anything other then reference.

Bob, I feel that the LJ list is one of the biggest dis-services to the industry. I would much rather see them put in a formula were the individual could input some of thier information such as rent, payroll and other overhead. But we all know that many would then complain because they would have to work at coming up with thier pricing.
 
Dave, I think it was you that I was having a conversation at Vegas with about "shop rate".... and two other framers at the table "what is that" and an other admitted that they just charged what the LJ rep had told them to charge.....
 
Hi Dave perhaps the dis-service is by those that take this tool and do not adapt it to their own needs

Can't blame Larson unless it woud be for attempting to simplify something that, by it's nature should be so simplistic
 
When I first opened, the LJ rep told me the charts were "national average" prices "smoothed out."

I had very little idea where to start. So, I used the LJ chart and reviewed results and data each month for six months. By the end of the sixth month my prices looked NOTHING like the LJ chart.

BUT, it was an excellent place to start and I was very grateful for it's existence!

I think Dave's use of it to trigger a review is excellent.

Using it blindly with out understanding is just stupid.
 
I once worked for a frameshop owner who used the LJ pricing list less 10%. We would enter the regular LJ pricing on the order form, but at the end of the order, gave each customer 10% off......they thought they were "special" and rarely questioned it.
 
The customer.....they got a 10% discount and didn't even have to ask for it!

The frameshop owner was special, as a matter of fact. One of the kindest, nicest people on the planet, and a darned good framer, and after 30 years in the biz, has moved on to other interests. He is a very dear friend of mine.
 
So is that $71.92 for a double mat and mounting? I think that horrible buying and equally horrible pricing will lead to our demise.

Is it right to charge $25.00 for 1/4 sheet of matboard even if we can? What is the markup? 15 - 20 times? Heck Hobby Lobby was selling whole paper matboards the other day for $5. Who here thinks their customers are blind to things like that? I don't. It’s no wonder we are becoming less and less custom framers and more and more frame fitters and junk assemblers. Ironically we are asked to lead a crusade to sue all the BB out of business. It looks like we are the ones who should be put on notice.
 
JayH.... ditto!

My prices:
Drymount 16 x 20: $8.23
Alpha Mat 16 x 20: $9.27

I do my OWN pricing! I am satisfied in the profits i make. I would be more comfortable knocking on someone's door asking for donations than to charge outrageous prices. I base my pricing as if i were a consumer, not a "get rich overnight" framer! :mad:

(25 years in business... i must be doing something right :icon11: )
 
I have never meet a "get rich overnight framer" :) I don't even know if that is possible. I do feel that your prices are way low, but it is your business to set your prices.
 
Nice Prices!

Where are you located Ahohen1? At those prices, I would have to guess East Albania.

Figuring that the 1/4 mat would cost you about $2, your labor to take the order, cut the mat, wrap it, and call the customer is $7.

I commend you for being in business for so long!
 
Okay, anyone out there that can give me a quote? I'm a framer in Hawaii on the island of Kauai (20 yrs) and am wondering how my prices compare to the US Mainland. ALL materials come air freight, UPS/FedEx/DHL 2nd Day or if I'm willing to chance 'em, Priority Mail for smaller stuffs.

8 1/2" x 21"
Frame @ 3.20 Base - 5.12 Chop / Ft
Dbl mat - Crescent Rag - $13/sheet
Glass at $45/box
Hinge the print w/acid free backing

tl
 
Width of moulding.... 1-inch? 5-inch? Big difference in footage used.
Type of glass.... Regular? ConsClear? Museum? Big difference again.

We need more info....

And welcome to the Grumble!
 
Jim Miller said:
Do you suppose LJ's biggest customer could have some influence on the recommended prices? Maybe we should divide them by half, to get realistic comparisons. :icon11:
Click to expand...

Jim, that's exactly what I was thinking. Just curious, does anyone have last year's LJ prices? I'm wondering how the changes look in terms of percentage increase.
 
kframe said:
Okay, anyone out there that can give me a quote? I'm a framer in Hawaii on the island of Kauai (20 yrs) and am wondering how my prices compare to the US Mainland. ALL materials come air freight, UPS/FedEx/DHL 2nd Day or if I'm willing to chance 'em, Priority Mail for smaller stuffs.

8 1/2" x 21"
Frame @ 3.20 Base - 5.12 Chop / Ft
Dbl mat - Crescent Rag - $13/sheet
Glass at $45/box
Hinge the print w/acid free backing

tl
Click to expand...

Just MHO, but your fleecing the tourists.... what's it matter if you're competative. I've never heard of a tourist leaving the island with anything unframed.
Only problem I have with redoing the tourist treasures are the Dole pineapple box backing and it's heck to get the duct tape off the backs of those Wyland posters. :D
 
You'd have a point if you knew what you were talking about. Wyland has his "art" framed on the mainland.

I won't do framing for the galleries. They want the Lexus but only willing to pay for the Hugo then charge the tour-ons for a Bentley.

As for the Wyland poster . . . why don't you call Wyland, find out who framed it - on the mainland - and cry to them.

By the way - you need to loose some weight.

tl
 
I think it is time for another episode "Spy Framer".
Bob C has mentioned that they will call around and survey other shops in the area and then share the results (blindly) with all that participate.
I wonder how you pull this off Bob.
I would much rather participate in something like this then to waste other framers time acting dumb. Or worse wasting my time talking to other framers acting dumb.

My other question is it legal to do this? It seems to smack of price fixing and something in the back of my head tells me that may not be kosher.
 
kframe said:
By the way - you need to loose some weight.

tl
Click to expand...

LMAO. Great retort Fframe, right from the "Jane you ignorant slut" school of debating.

Of course, most of us could stand to lose a bit of weight. Can't wait to hear Baer's certain-to-be-eloquent reply.
 
ahohen1 said:
Alpha Mat 16 x 20: $9.27


...not a "get rich overnight" framer
Click to expand...


Bainbridge list price for that board is $9.45 a sheet.

Either you are getting one heck of a discount, or you are really banking on the fact that you will sell the rest of the sheet to someone else.

I disagree with a lot of pricing philosophies, but I fail to see the logic of selling a matboard at cost.
 
For those of you whom got up on the CORRECT SIDE OF THE BED, listen up!

Just for a moment, forget the world of framing. Simply fill your tank with gas, buy a dozen eggs, look at what your accountant charged to do your taxes this year (compared to last year) and.......checked your utility bills lately?

OF COURSE you have to raise your prices!!!

There is more to this subject than I've ever seen discussed. And that is, a person must feel that they DESERVE a decent income and they must feel CONFIDENT in their abilities to warrant charging the appropriate prices. (Now THIS subject would make a great class to offer at PPFA/WCAF!)

New to retail in 1997, I have stood back and made plenty of observations. Speaking very generally, it appears to me that those people whom truly believe in themselves don't bat an eye at raising prices as is mandated by the economy. And those that are "squeamish" (for lack of a better term) hold back. I've been in both places: when I was new to the industry I WAS one squeamish retailer. And now I've got it! I've got it in large part to this forum and to the classes I've taken through PPfA and WCAF!

So, to all of you whom can't muster - we are extremely fortunate to have so many experienced framing professionals participate in this forum. Take advantage of their wisdom and run with it!!

Just my 5 cents (see, I CAN handle raising my prices!)
 
I too can handle raising my prices. :)

But while doing so I don't want to be the highest (or lowest) guy in town. The LJ drymount figure is what through me, because it was almost double my price that was based off of local market, material costs, overhead and gut instinct.
 
LJ increase

I'm meeting my LJ rep today, but from my quick calculations, LJ Partner wholesale prices went up 5% on Bainbrindge boards of all kinds, 5% all over the place, no rise in Artique. 15% rise in corrugated, if you buy from them. Haven't checked Kraft yet. No rise in TruVue. We are in the midst of adjusting our prices accordingly across the board. It has to be done. Haven't spot checked moulding yet, but we will taken action there as well.
 
My 16 x 20 drymount list price is $16.00

HOWEVER, I rarely actually get that. WHY? Because about 90% of my dry mount is for one of two things; my poster special and wholesale.

I do a lot of dry mounting for a local photo lab and a printing house.

My "list price" is very much "in tune" with my local competitors prices.
 
rmark-ups lj

Baer Charlton said:
Dave, I think it was you that I was having a conversation at Vegas with about "shop rate".... and two other framers at the table "what is that" and an other admitted that they just charged what the LJ rep had told them to charge.....
Click to expand...

Yikes! As framers we all need to adjust our prices for our OWN operational budgets. My prices look nothink like the LJ sheet. I only look at thier wholesale prices and I do not use thier moulding mark-up--a disaster as Goltz explained in his pricing seminar at WCAF.
 
OK, I finally broke down and looked mine up ...I wasn't going to because I figured I was charging what I needed to charge for my shop and it didn't matter what anyone else charged.

Crescent Select Mat : $ 12.00
Drymount:on fom-cor $ 13.32

But I'm glad you folks made me look ...I think I need to raise my mat prices.

Unless you compare the entire frame package with very exact specifications comparing individual items is relatively useless. For example, I tack on 10-15% "Set-up fee" at the very end of the order ...so I guess I really charge
$ 13.20+ for the mat and $ 14.65+ for the mount.

But then I charge for hangers too because I use WallBuddies, straps, sawtooth, screw eyes, decorative rings and chewing gum ...depending on the piece and customer preference.

Everybody kind of makes up there own system for pricing and it's only in recent years with people using POS systems that we are we getting closer to comparing apples to apples ...but you may be Golden, Baer's Delicious and I'm still a Crab Apple.

:shrug:

Dave Makielski
 
:popc:
​


Ahohen1 ...it doesn't say in your profile where you're from ...if you're close enough I'll job out my matting and mounting to you ...that is, if you give me a discount ...

:smileyshot22:

Dave Makielski
​
 
FrameMakers said:
I too can handle raising my prices. :)

...
Click to expand...

Actually, if you're on a POS with internet price updates, you won't have to raise your prices unless you want to change your margins ...it'll happen automatically when you download your new costs.

Isn't technology wonderful!!!

:icon21:


Dave Makielski
​
 
Paul Cascio said:
Just curious, does anyone have last year's LJ prices? I'm wondering how the changes look in terms of percentage increase.
Click to expand...

For my own curiosity, too:

The markup for moulding is the same, but, of course, their wholesale prices have increased since last year.

Their suggested retail charges (taken “randomly” from last year and this year’s charts) selected are all over the map.

Mats up ~ 3%

Dry Mount up ~ 34 to 50%

Museum Mount up ~ 7%

Canvas Stretching up ~ 10%

Glass up ~ 1 to 3%

Fitting charge down ~2%

I didn’t take the time to compare last years wholesale prices to this years, but I suspect that with the increases, the margin may be about the same.

I don’t wish to pile on those who may use these “suggested” numbers, but I would seriously suggest you reconsider using these charts as they appear.
 
LJ's word on increase

LJ rep said the following, as of May 1:

mats except Artique, up 5% No raise for Artique
same for backing boards, foamcore, mount boards, etc-about 5%
no TruVue increase
moulding averages 2.7% increase
Various hardware increases--hard to track this one.



Oh, and they are not buying Roma!
 
Create a Post
Back
Top