LJ Concerto

Sorry, Fourcorners, I can't intelligently answer your question, but I hope that you can tell us what is it exactly that makes you wanna buy closed corner frames from LJ and not from proven, consecrated closed corner manufacturers around? Have you asked for other long time closed corner users' opinions before making your mind up? Is it about being more comfortable with people (companies) that you already know and deal with than approaching new suppliers?
You know, for many decades Munn used to be all that in their field (sort of LJ in the other field) and when they decided to cross the line into more commercial markets they did poorly despite having such a tremendous reputation for quality. I expect moving from commercial grounds up be equally if not even more difficult of a business because higher level quality can't simply be translated and not even presumed from formerly successful experience. Perhaps quality isn’t the key factor here but price is?
Hi there,
I have a great deal of confidence in LJ after having worked with them for 13 years. Mostly at this point I just wanted to see if any Grumblers have used them for this purpose (I believe they've been available in other markets for a while) and how they feel about the line. We did pick up some information from a closed corner vendor last year at the Vegas show and I guess I felt a little put off by the gentleman we spoke with. I won't get into details but it did discourage us from trying someone new. Of course, this does not speak to the customer service of all vendors but it sure does make one appreciate the great service you get from your tried and true vendors.
We've definitely been open to other vendors but it's also kind of overwhelming from our perspective how many samples there are available for purchase. What to get? How many? What's gonna sell? I think if we had been offered any sort of advice in that department last year we probably would have jumped on it.
Thanks for your input. I'm curious to see what others may have to say.
I'll jump in. In many regions, if the artwork to be framed is larger than 20 x 24 the shipping can be quite costly on a finished corner frame.

The idea that they could arrive hand carried by my happy and courteous L-J drivers is not without appeal.

I haven't seen the line so I'll reserve comment on the quality.
Seen the line. I can name at least 6 other CC makers that impressed me more. 4 of which were much more reasonably priced. 6 of which I would trust to do the job right the first time.

But who knows, maybe they can get the kinks out this decade before they move the plant to southern Uganda or whereever it's cheaper labor.

At only 13 years fourcorners, you wouldn't remember the quality level of Juhl Pacific. The Victoria line was manufactured in Australia and was beautiful. When Larson bought Juhl, many in the Pacific North West were shearing their walls of Juhl in wholesale.

But, now here we are 16 years later... so you may be right. 167 million WalMart shoppers can't ALL be wrong.
One thing's for sure... we'll see what happens!

Baer, tried to stop by and say "hi" in Vegas but you were deeeep in conversation. Hope you had a great show!
When I'm "DeeeeeP" in conversation, thats the best time to stop me and get me to shut up. [or so my wife says].

Sorry you didn't. I hope you had as great a time as I did. There must have been three times as many Grumblers as last year.

Name names. I currently don't carry any closed corner frames except for some ready-mades and need to move into a line. LJ has approached me, but I would like to do my homework before making any move. I'd appreciate it if you'd share your good experience.

Dave Makielski
Ditto on that Dave - I'm looking for Vendors also, but would like to know more and hear more about the service side and quality.
I'm trying their French and Italian lines. I'm impressed with the quality of the samples and the standard generous rabbets. I also carry samples from Abe Munn, Regence, Thanhardt-Burgher, Wesley Allen, and American Choice. The LJ's fill a different niche. I'll let you know how it goes. I've paid over $100 for crating and shipping on some previous closed corner orders, so I appreciate the availability of truck delivery.

Pat :D
Here's my 2 cents. For the past ten years I've been selling closed corner frames from Munn, APF, American Choice, New Look, Regence, C&J, Mercier, Stinky Metal works, Holton Framemakers, Art Lore, Curry and Rao, and AMCI. Notice I didn't list LJ. When Larson Juhl approached me to carry their line I took a serious look at it. They do have some possitive reasons for going with them. Free shipping being at the top of the list. But their down side for me was to great. They have ZERO track record. Who am I ordering from? The people that take my mat order in Atlanta? That doesn't sound good to me. As everyone before me has pointed out there is a laundry list of closed corner frame makers with years of experience. The first thing I did with LJs price list is compare it to other frame makers prices. No difference between them. So the price isn't any better. Looked at the quality next. It was acceptable but again no better than anyone else. Did you happen to stop by the APF/Munn booth at WCAF? Thats what decades of experience looks like. Or look at the carved frames by CDNV (owner is the former master carver for AMCI).

I'm not dissing LJ. They have been and are very good to me. I will probably always use them as a moulding and material vendor.....and who knows, maybe down the road if they have established their CC line better I will take another look at it.
Thanks for all of your opinions. I have no doubt that all of these vendors have beautiful product. And I really didn't want to start a discussion about who I should or shouldn't go with... but this is the Grumble! That's what we do!
Again, just wondering, anybody use "Concerto" yet?
Something that they don't address, that I would always be concerned about in a CC.

Finish. Ordering a #10-23 in a 17x38.5 is one thing. But size isn't everything when your customer is laying out $78/ft.

Many of the true CC makers, if you send them a 4" chunk of a 20 year old La Marsh and have a piece of tape on it with and arrow and say, I really like what they did to this gold area... thats how I want the whole frame, except the panel in the scoshia needs to be dusted morning rose (see color chip from Ralph Loren paint) and can the beading in the second row be glazed chinese gooseberry red with a black tea-paper over glaze on the who back panel.

Thats when you know you're dealing with a CC maker, not a factory.

Look at Cornels catalog... you can have a new frame in the style of Mannerist 1560s, or you can have a museum piece that will be hard to tell from a true 1560s made frame.
The difference is not lost on the true connisur, gallery, or museum.
Baer is right on here...If you want a closed corner vendor you ant an experienced crafts person that can do whatever you want. Why would your hand be tied at $75.00 a ft? If my customer is spending that type of money then they should get a custom closed corner frame. That is the difference. How will LJ personalize these frames? It is a factory finish at $75.00 a ft? That is it...go with one of the winners listed above.

Here are a couple more:Small Corp, ASF (A Street Frames), Regence, C&J. There are a bunch. And if you decide to be the pioneer for this line, be careful.

I must say Cornel takes this personally. He should he makes some of the best frames I have seen, I think I even drooled on the sample a little. Sorry. He knows what he is doing, check his company out, he is good to the grumble.

Patrick Leeland
Aren't we getting a little anal here, LJ's Samples are attractive and I am confident that the customer will get a frame that looks like what he saw. I have had only one request for a custom finish as opposed to "as sampled" in all of the closed corner frames that I have sold to date. If you don't like their product, don't carry it. But don't bad-mouth them for not offering custom finishes - they are just using a different business model.

Pat :D
I am by no means bad mouthing them. If my post wa read as posted you would see that this was not even implied. Heck I think they are nice looking. I am simply saying that if I were offering such a line at a price like that, I would want flexibility. That is what the other vendors offer.

Patrick Leeland
Everyone seems to be full of advice about frames they have never ordered ???
Has anyone asked if LJ will alter finishes?
While you're there maybe you can ask about backups and altering molding profiles in top of being willing and able to alter finishes. Or what about picking up a certain straight molding of theirs, say # XYZ, and have a round or oval frame be made in that very style just 10% narrower molding? That would be more like what real CC frame-makers are expected to do if so requested by their costumers. I just had to quote two round frame jobs for two different clients for same style frames in 5" and 6" wide molding, up from my regularly 3" It happens more than once in a life time, believe me.
Aren't you glad you don't have to carve those ******* ***** Lou 16th inverted french sweeps. And then there is the "can't you just engorge the areil form just a bit more"... "sure. a pregnet bloated "S" and Shell... no problem..and would you like picadillos with that in the circumfature of the torse?"

And those who already deal in CCs know that I am not joking... :eek:
I think what you just said is the point here. A true CC maker isn't about getting what you see in your sample set. It's about having 20 frames with 20 diferent finishes and being able to tell your client that they are actualy looking at 400 samples (20x20=400 mathmaticaly I make sense LOL) Variables in finishes and profiles is what custom frames are all about. As I stated already I have no problem with LJ I just think if you are just getting into CC frames go with someone with more time and versatility. If you already sell CC frames and like LJs line then get it. I think it looks fine.
This might be another fun poll

How many carry CC frames

What percent does this line represent