Lithograph in bathroom

[Randy Jordan]

I had a customer bring in a lithograph for me to frame. They are planning to hang it in their bathroom (no windows, exhaust fan). What I have planned is to use clear silicone between the gazing and rabbet and cover the back of the frame with mylar with the edges taped with vinyl tape. Am I using the "correct" or "best" method of making the framing package moisture resistant? Any suggestions? Randy J

 

[Jeff Rodier]

Throw some coroplast behind your backing and use J-Lar tape to seal it up.

 

[i-FRAMER]

I would not use silicone as it can off gas to start with.

Moisture does not necessarily enter from around the edges of the glass.
Glass will go through temperature changes in a bathroom, which causes condensation, while you may not necessarily see it on the inside of the frame, be sure there will be enough to allow mould to grow.

You may have more success encasing the lino in sealed mylar, to help prevent the lino from absorbing moisture and going wavy, but be sure to still leave room for expansion.

I would suggest that you recommend against it, and if they still wish to hang it there, you can not guarantee the work from damage against the environment.

 

[Tom Reigle]

Is it an actual lithographic print or something that looks like a litho?? Is it worth anything to the owner? Do they know that putting valuable art in a super humid environment as described is like placing a gold fish in an aquarium full of piranhas in my opinion. I would tell you what my suggestions would be but I don't think you would like the answers.

I wonder when framing customers are going to accept the idea that the expert in such a situation IS the framer and not the consumer who doesn't know beans from shineola about the consequences of poor or improper framing for a given condition?? Making a few bucks on a framing job that isn't correct and the framer KNOWS it isn't correct is simply asking to be burnt when you try to see how close you can put your hand (sic, career) to the fire (sic, a healthy law suite potential).

 

[Baer Charlton]

Randy, there are two important questions that you need to ask the customer.

1) When you get out of the shower, is the mirror all steamed up? If they have no window
and NO fan, it will, and you can now pay attention of Tom setting his hair on fire and
screaming about "a super humid environment". (not true, but he is fun to watch).
What you have is a steamy environment that is just warm enough to start heating up the
acrylic. The real problem is that you will get steam on the acrylic, that may start turning to
water, and running down into the frame, and wicking back up the mat to the art.

2) Do they really care if their "art" is destroyed over the next 10-20 years? IF they do want
to protect it.... follow i-FRAMER's advice and encapsulate it, and seal the package with
jlar or marvel seal. The acrylic instead of glass is a given in a barefoot area.

The term Lithography covers a wide area. Most think of a stone or steel plate, but the fact is
the term also covers a photo etched aluminum plate that is fitted onto a roller press and then
spun at 32mph.... you can buy a new one every day in a box.... just stick your $.50 in and
take one. The comics are my favorite litho.

 

[wpfay]

Am I using the "correct" or "best" method of making the framing package moisture resistant?

In a word, no.
Study up on Hugh Phibbs' "Sealed Frame Technology".
The economics of it may not work which is why I sometimes advise the customer to purchase extra copies of the cherished image so it can be replaced when the first one carps out.

 

[preservator]

Moisture resistant

As Wally said, there is no "best" way to keep condensation away from paper art, if it is hung where condensation can occur. Pressure-sensitive seals have a finite life span and silicone is somewhat unpredictable. Sealing against high humidity is less problematic, since it should not entail liquid water, but it is worth asking whether condensation will occur on that wall. Often the "steam" that comes out of the shower may settle on cool glass surfaces and rapidly evaporate, but items glazed with acrylic sheet may not have the same condensation potential.



Hugh

 

[05]

Polyester (Mylar) makes a better water vapor barrier than polyethylene (Coroplast).

 

[preservator]

Plastics

The only plastics that can function as a vapor barriers are Escal and similar films.
The outer layer of Escal is polypropylene. The inner barrier layer is a vacuum-deposited ceramic on a PVA substrate. This glass-like barrier material offers nearly the same barrier capacity as aluminum foil based films. Oxygen permeability is 0.05cc/m2/24hrs, water vapour transmission is 0.01gm/m2/24hrs. As in most sealable barrier films, the inner layer is polyethylene.

Hugh

 

[Randy Jordan]

Wow! What a plethera of information. Thank you all for the input. Maybe I should have worded my post a little differently, Wally, I know that there is no "correct" or "best" way to hang art in a very high moisture environment, but I also know the guy down the street would not give it a second thought and use conventional framing methods and give it to the customer and say "There ya go" I want to give the customer at least some protection for their art. I'm don't think it is a real lithograph, but it's done by a local well known artist and as far as value, it's worth more to them than it is in dollars. Oh, and thank you Baer, I didn't even think about bare feet and glass, and they do have a little girl, so we're going with acrylic at NC. So here's my game plan, I'm going to encapsulate the art in invisi-mount polypropylene, seal the framing package with J-Lar. Use coroplast backing and again sealing the back of the frame with J-Lar. And tell the customer, if it hangs in the bathroom it will be subject to HIGH moisture and that's a bad thing. I hope that is a "good" game plan and does not promp anyone to play "flaming folicals". Thank you all again! I just love this place! See ya in Vegas Baby! Randy J.

 

[Baer Charlton]

Sounds like a lot of overkill Randy, but better safe then farty....
as the oldster saying goes.

Way back when.... I think in the days of plex.... it became law
with me... no glass in barefoot areas. IE: Bed/Bath/kitchen

Those are also areas that are prone to, pillow fights, flailing towels,
and too many people in too tight a space.... especially at parties.

I had an amazing seragraph in the gallery window in Glendale, CA. One
night a guy saw it and went sideways stopping..... then he raced home
(48 miles) to Onterio, grabbed his wife - - in the blanket out of bed,
threw her in the Porche and drove back "THAT is the most incredible
picture!!"

We laughed the next day when she came in to buy it for him..... and I
delivered it the next day after work. . . which is of course when he
walks in the house a day early from his trip. There went the surprise
birthday present.
So I was starting to hang it in the entry.... "NO NO - -Over the BED!"

I looked him dead in the eye... "No. I don't hang glass in a bedroom.
ESPECIALLY over the bed."

We went roundy-round..... finally, I went out and got some Z-bar
out of the truck and hung it. He was happy.

The next week, the wife called..... "He's gone for 5 days to London."

I drove out that night and swapped out the glass for the new Acrylic.

Fast forward..... about a month later..... 6.8 hits in Pico Rivera...
12 miles away... they WERE sleeping (?) in late... the whole thing
jumped the tracks, and came down on them....

"DON'T MOVE!! THERE IS BROKEN GLASS IN THE BED!!"

She laughing so hysterical.... he thinks she is hurt and needs to call
an ambulance......

She finally settled down enough to tell him "Silly, I had Baer swap
it out!"

They took my GF and I out to a nice dinner that night. I had "saved
their bed".

I'm still trying to figure out how in the world a 42lb frame jumped out
of the Z-bar. . .