Liners with more ample rabbet?

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PaulSF

PFG, Picture Framing God
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I'm looking for a liner (or liner stock that I can custom-wrap) that has a more ample rabbet, so that it can hold a canvas on stretcher bars as well as a fillet. Something more than the 1/4 inch that I'm seeing on the liners from LJ and Frank's that I currently carry.

Any suggestions as to a supplier?
 
Excellent. I will pursue that first thing Monday. Never hurts to ask (unless you are a newbie to the Grumble without properly introducing yourself).

And if any moulding manufacturers are reading, please give us deeper rabbets!! I hate having the framing package sticking out the back like the rear end of a spandex-wearing tourist at Disneyland!!
 
me too

Just the exact thing I am looking for this morning! Have a "family heirloom" to frame and need to keep the oil on the original stretcher bars because the great aunt who is the artist signed the lower bar. The homemade stretcher is 1/8" larger at the corners than in the middle. To further complicate matters I need a 1/2" liner to cover the green paint on the canvas which came from the old frame. Apparently the outside frame was painted after it was mounted. Anyone have a address for Raphael's?
 
I just have to give another recomendation for Raphael's. They are fabulous when it comes to constructing what the framer needs. It is great to talk to a company that totaly "gets it".
 
Liner/Rabbet = 2X(canvas + stretcher)

Maybe I'm missing something, but I've always used liners in conjunction with deeper frames - with a generous rabbet. Sometimes when using a fillet in a liner, I'm left with virtually no rabbet in the liner. But even this doesn't matter as I'll fit the liner in the deep profile frame, then use canvas offset clips (customized if need be) to fit the canvas to the liner. Wouldn't a liner with a more generous rabbet require a deeper frame anyway, or are you fitting to the liner only - essentially eliminating the frame?

Yeah...that sounds confusing. Maybe I'll post a picture. Well, I hope you get it.
 
Artistic Framer said:
Maybe I'm missing something, but I've always used liners in conjunction with deeper frames - with a generous rabbet. Sometimes when using a fillet in a liner, I'm left with virtually no rabbet in the liner. But even this doesn't matter as I'll fit the liner in the deep profile frame, then use canvas offset clips (customized if need be) to fit the canvas to the liner. Wouldn't a liner with a more generous rabbet require a deeper frame anyway, or are you fitting to the liner only - essentially eliminating the frame?

Yeah...that sounds confusing. Maybe I'll post a picture. Well, I hope you get it.
Click to expand...

The liner I have in mind fits the frame perfectly, that isn't the problem. The issue is that I have yet to find stretcher bars smaller than 3/8 of an inch. So even without the fillet, a significant amount of stretcher bar is going to protrude out the back of the liner, and therefore out the back of the frame. If I use the fillet with this design, the fillet will take up the entire depth of the rabbet, leaving nothing for the mounted canvas. Sure, I can secure it with offset clips, I do that all the time. I just wish that the moulding manufacturers would take into account that framers sometime frame things with stretcher bars, or with glass and double mats and fillets, and consequently the artwork package sticks out the back of the moulding.
 
PaulSF said:
So even without the fillet, a significant amount of stretcher bar is going to protrude out the back of the liner, and therefore out the back of the frame.
Click to expand...

It doesn't matter how deep the rabbet on the liner is - if it's going to stick out of the back of the frame it's going to stick out of the back of the frame. It's just a matter of whether it will be just the stretcher, or the stretcher and the liner together. The solution is not a deeper rabbet in the liner, it's a deeper rabbet in the frame.
 
Anyone have contact info on Raphael's?

Thanks.


Dave Makielski
 
Contact

Raphael's:
800-881-5191

Don't forget about Franks Fabric, I think they sell liners, right Baer?
 
Baer, will Frank's also custom mill?

Dave
 
"Custom milling" is a subjective thing. We can get a short run done on anything, it's just a matter of how much do you want to spend.

Frank's stocks 42 profiles. We have many other profiles available that we can get primed and in at short notice.. but deep rabbits are not standard in the industry. And that is because of the dynamics of depth and width of wood.

If you want a shallow scoop that has a 3/8" drop from back top to the lip 3" away and the lip is 1/8" thick.... you are already at 1/2".

Now, some would think that if you add a 1/4" rabbit to that profile, you can mill that out of a 3/4" board.... good luck.

If we are talking "rough stock" it will come out of 4/4 stock [no, that's not a typo and it also doesn't mean one inch either]. 4/4 stock comes 15/16" which is what is left from the bandsaw that "re-sawed" the stock. Both sides are "rough cut", so the first thing is to take a flattening slice on one "face". Then the board is ripped.... [in the case of this 3" finished profile, it is ripped 3 1/16"]. Then it is passed through the "Sticker" or "Moulder" depending on whether it is a single or triple head machine. Next it takes a pass or two through the shape sander and on to the sprayer.

Three passes of sprayed primer and out to the drying racks and heat room for baking.

That is the "J" profile with a 5/16" rabbit.
Just short of that 3/8 stretcher and 1/64 of 870 canvas....

To add that needed 1/4", you will start with 5/4 stock [not as common . . . but doable]. The price is 30% higher. Plus the custom blade grinding, and set-up charge......

Isn't using black Cambrick @ $2/yd... just a little cheaper?

But if you have an ongoing need for a custom profile, by all means it is very do-able. After all, every standard profile today was once a custom profile.
 
Frank's/Raphael's profiles

A bit off topic, but I would like to see a Frank's profile to match Raphael's JJ (very shallow scoop--therefore easier to use with many mouldings) and XX (very deep, pretty scoop which I use frequently)

When a customer settles on one of these profiles but wants a Frank's fabric they have to choose. I usually recommend Frank's M profile, but it is not as shallow as I would like for certain situations. Or they switch to a Raphael's fabric.

I've mentioned this to Frank's a couple of times, but no changes so far.
Baer, do you work with Frank's? If so, please pass the suggestion along again.

We are happy with the quality and service from both companies, BTW.

Thanks so much.
 
Jeez Kristie, I'd love to help you... but the only Raphael's that I can find on the web is this one http://www.raphaelinternational.com/weaving.htm and for some reason they don't show "JJ" as a "liner"..... just a "head-liner".

Marsha-0.jpg


Now as for Frank's "J".. I use it all the time.. very shallow scoop. and His "X" is a 2"x2" scotia cove.... you needed more?

But my big question is... why would they have to switch fabric suppliers just to get a different liner profile? Does that mean you aren't hand wrapping these yourself? :eek:
 
Baer Charlton said:
Jeez Kristie, I'd love to help you... but the only Raphael's that I can find on the web is this one http://www.raphaelinternational.com/weaving.htm and for some reason they don't show "JJ" as a "liner"..... just a "head-liner".

Marsha-0.jpg


Now as for Frank's "J".. I use it all the time.. very shallow scoop. and His "X" is a 2"x2" scotia cove.... you needed more?

But my big question is... why would they have to switch fabric suppliers just to get a different liner profile? Does that mean you aren't hand wrapping these yourself? :eek:
Click to expand...
LOL! Need more Baer, JJ and XX.

No Baer, we don't currently hand wrap liners. Our shop is pretty busy and out of our current batch of 3 custom framers (the rest downstairs in the DIY area), I think that only one has liner wrapping skills. All the framers hand wrap mats--piece of cake. Liners are so inexpensive wrapped that it hardly seems worth the labor. I know, I know...we should give it a whirl.

Speaking of hand wrapping mats, we currently use Frank's glue, but now we are abandoning the Vacuum press for the print Mount Hot/Vac, do you recommend using the press to apply fabric to mats for day to day hand wraps? Flo Bond? Thanks.
 
Probably less than 30% of my mat ever make it to the press... but we have an old mechanical.. so no vac.

I would use a vac in a heartbeat, and combine a little low temp.. absolutely. Especially if you're doing embossed mats or waterfalls.

My favorite embossed mat is a gorgeous snap with a vac heat press.
MtHood01E.jpg


Wizard template #412

I would keep the vac for all this and more. I would move to the new cold press too, but I'd keep the workhorse of a heat/vac press.

Flo Bond? :eek: and you said that with a straight face!:icon11:
 
I took Paul McFarland's class on wrapping mats and liners at WCAF. I had already wrapped mats before, so I was particularly interested in getting some experience wrapping liners. It was reassuringly easy. I actually found a liner profile from Frank's that is deep enough for me to add a fillet and still have a little room for the stretcher bars, and I'm going to wrap it myself with some of Frank's Durango suede fabric. And I'm gonna do it seamless, just to show everyone that I'm one sexy liner wrapping mini driving framer!

I may just post a pic when I'm done, if I can figger out how to use the camera.
 
Baer, love the design for the Mt. Hood poster. Very elegant. I've seen that poster before. Did a search for it and found this retail source.

Does anyone have a wholesale source for this poster. Internet search brought up nothing.

Thanks
 
Baer you know I clicked on the framenerd website expecting to see a picture of you in a hawaiin shirt...what gives, are you claiming that site for yourself or what? What other nerd, or framer would admit to it besides you???

That was in green

with a smileee

pl
 
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