Light Impressions

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Mel

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Joined
Sep 4, 1998
Posts
846
Loc
Pendleton, OR, USA
Yesterday I realized I had miscalculated a Profile 97 beaded Florentine frame
job, and need to reorder two new rails. Incidently, I had just leafed through
the new Light Impressions and had it on the table and happened to notice that it
sells these moulding lines. Turns out the 20 x 26 inch frame I had sold cost
less chopped by a few dollars than the chop I received from my distributor. How
can I mark this up by 2 or 3 times when my customer, who probably does get this
catalog, can get it for less than I paid? What is Nielsen trying to do to us?

Just today a another wholesaler responding on this forum, used the by-line, "The retailer's wholesaler, not the retailing wholesaler."

I'm feeling s*****.
mad.gif





[This message has been edited by Mel (edited October 31, 2000).]
 
Mel: I know what you mean. We just had the same experience with an art supply catalog from Dick Blick Art Materials. I have detailed my discovery in a new posting. Don't know about you, but I can't wait to call my Nurre/Caxton rep Monday to ask for an explanation of this predatory pricing.

;-{ Rick
 
Need I point out LJ's inconsistencies, once again? If their marketing efforts (and anti other-based retailers policies) are for the purpose of creating the impression they are the highest standard in the industry, how do they justify selling at discounted prices in artists' catalogs?


Rick:

Please share the response with us.

[This message has been edited by Mel (edited October 30, 2000).]
 
I find the smilie pulling out a gun and killing the other smilie, blood and all, to be very offensive.
 
You buy chop one frame at a time. For this service and all the overhead that goes with it you pay a very high price. If you buy length you will pay about 1/3 the price per foot that you pay for chop. If you buy box quantities of 350 to 400 feet of one moulding you will receive discounts of about 35% off the footage price. If you buy 5 boxes at a time you will get discounts of about 45% off the footage price. If you buy chop and think you can compete with high volume catalog distributers for the same customers you had better go down to WalMart and ask for a job. You're going to need it.
 
American Frame is another company that anyone can purchase frames from both metal and wood, cut to size. The cost without shipping for a 16 x 20 Nielson 97-156 is $17.10 which includes hardware. Nurre's 2384 would cost $32.40. They also offer incentives to non-profit organizations for purchasing from them.

It is sooo hard to look at these prices!!!But I must also say that I still do quite a bit of framing for people who I know receive this catalog, they want quality work from someone they can trust.
Ruth
 
Unless I am missing something here, I don't understand the resentment towards Larson and Nielsen. Do they own these magazines or are they selling directly to these customers? If I'm not confused, I think these companies that are, just like you and I, buying product and selling them to a selected customer base. The fact that they go to extreme expense and create a catalog doesn't make them any less a competitor than the guy down the street, but I don't see what Larson or Nielsen is doing wrong. If I wanted to do the same, I should be able to do it.I know a lot of people gave Larson a lot of grief over their home-based decision. Do we really now expect the same people to call Larson or Nielsen to not open this market. I don't know that Larson does that, anyway. It really comes down to whose ox is getting gored. Scarfinger is dead on with his example. If you want to compete with these magazines, buy box loads(at the favorable pricing)and sell as aggresively as you wish. That really is the market system working well. I do however, feel that any wholesaler should be able to sell to whomever they wish as long as its decisions are fair and uniformly applied. It's not the manufacturers that you should focusing on, it's your own market.
 
Bob: My market area is a town of 14,000. This is another apples and oranges comparison. There is no way buying five boxes of one style moulding makes sense in my situation. Imagine how happy my customers would be with everything designed with the same moulding. That said: You and Scarfinger make good points. I choose to live here, and I choose to frame here, so need to take the advantages with the disadvantages. I do wonder though whether the market system doing well is necessarily the people doing well, but that is another string.

My more business astute spouse has always told me that my pricing should be based on cost of materials and labor (ALL time expended), separately. Price the mouldings (at least) at cost, add labor in; the total would be more or less the same. Add more "labor" for higher priced mouldings to cover possible "manufacturing" errors. This would certainly be the solution to this problem. Does anyone in this industry do this?


(Scarfinger: My reaction to the gun/blood smilie was the same as yours. But, although I'm against the death penalty, I know I could bare-handed murder anyone who hurt either of my daughters. I was pretty upset when I added that illustration to my post.)
 
Bob,

It's not the Nielson that gets me. I understand where they are coming from, and how they do business and justify
things.

It's the LJ. And as you brought up, the residential based, or non commercial zoning exclusion.

I have spoken to folks (higher ups) in the company, and asked them of the policy. The marketing and reasoning
behind it are sound and laudable.

My bafflement comes from, as it was stated to me, Larsons goal of a name associated with high design, high
quality, and available through select re-tailers.

LJ is branding their name. And to have it there only seems to lower it's rank for the consumer and framer.

Light Imp had the choice of many knock-offs, they wanted the LJ brand name to resonate in the pages too. They
needed to negotiate a price deal, as most large vendors do, and communicate intentions to Larson (for volume,
stock and availability issues), and Larson made a deal. I expect this from Nieslon, but not from Larson.

I agree with you Bob. They do get slammed because they are the biggest target, and doing a great job at what
they do. However I just think this was poor decision in light of stated company goals and company culture.
 
Marc-I don't disagree with your premise. One side of me is 100% unadulterated free market, while I still enjoy any advantage that tilts the table in our direction. Boy, aren't we all a little that way? But I still want less intervention, less rules and more focus on getting bigger and better. For the record these magazines rankle me,also. Kind of like the street corner guys. I'm going to start a new thread on non-traditional competition that really sums up how we really feel
 
Mel,
Glad to see the smilie changed. I too, could kill to protect my family. I made that descision many years ago to make myself ready to act without hesitation. But I hope the need never arises. The casual killing that seems to be accepted these days is what I saw in the smilie.
 
Light Impressions is involved with a large wholesale framer operation out of Rochester, NY. This wholesaler decided to do some retail business and for the last several years has a perpetual 25% off the framing order sale. Up 25 down 25. Interesting. There business has grown like weeds.

------------------
Timberwoman
AL
I cut the mat, I pet the =^..^= cat.
 
I just finished a several-week seminar at the local university held by the business and entrepeneurship departments. One of the professors was a retired WalMart marketing exec who has come back to his alma mater to head up the campus retail sales. We were, therefore, treated to some great insights on the way Sam Walton created and ran his empire, and I don't mean this sarcastically.

One of the more penetrating ones for me turned out to be the confidence that WalMart has in its systems, such as inventory, cost control, distribution, etc. They demonstrate this confidence by being almost entirely top-line (traffic, numbers, market share, sales, revenues... choose your word) driven, instead of the almost-fanatical obsession I've seen in some companies over the bottom line. Don't misunderstand; if there's no profit, revenues don't matter. But the confidence that driving the top line would ultimately show up in profits was clear. Another thing that was interesting is that they pointed out that once you developed your price points, sales were ineffective. People don't go to Walmart for a big sale, if you think about it. Look at one of their flyers and all you see is their "normal, everyday low pricing."

My point, even though I probably misunderstood a bunch of the stuff, is that the Walton group is THE model for retailers who want to have a national critical mass. This translates into doing anything to build market share and trusting that your management has enough of a handle on things to translate those revenues into profit.

Sometimes I'd like to duck my head into a good shot of espresso and an interesting frame job and don't concern myself with anything else and hope the business does well, but I don't see that as a choice if this business is to become successful and grow. I guess that means to observe what's happening and be proactive (I hate that corporatespeak word, but it's appropriate) about girding up in advance of challenges. I'm not COMPLETELY sure how to go about that sometimes, is the only thing.

Sorry, everyone, if this doesn't really jibe with what is on this particular thread, but those are the thoughts which came tumbling out. I know it's late!
 
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