Life of CMC's

[Puppiesonacid]

I keep getting other framers that want me to cut large mat orders for them, and of course they never pay enough to be worth the time or machine wear...

So that makes me wonder... I know parts can go on the machines... I haven't had one go in 6 years that I have had one, but has anyone had a machine just go on them, and not work anymore?

And if so what parts are the ones that went?

 

[Dermot Cox-Kearns]

So far so good with my CMC not that it has got much use...


I am looking at my price at present for contract / trade work that I will do on my CMC. ..

I don't want to get caught out like you and not cover my costs. .... I am thinking of a list price less a trade discount for contract / trade customers. ..

 

[Jeff Rodier]

Replacement head on my 8000 was $2,300 (about 2 years ago) but under warranty since I used the rental program to make the purchase. Once paid off I believe the warranty is around $1,000 per year. The Jr. rental charges 25 cents per corner (8 corners per mat inside and out) plus the base rental to account for wear and replacement parts but does not cover your personal time or blade cost. One supplier was offering cut mats at the cost of the full sheet plus $8 per mat cut. They dropped the program because it was not profitable.

 

[Pat Murphey]

...The Jr. rental charges 25 cents per corner (8 corners per mat inside and out) plus the base rental...

Jr. rental has a charge of 10 cents per corner used above the included 1000 corners per month.

The 25 cent number is for the Quick Start rental program.

 

[Dave]

I currently outsource most of my mats to a supplier that delivers. Cost is the cost of the board minus a negotiated discount + $ 3.00 per opening. No extra charge for fancy corners or anything. $ 4.00 for 8 ply. I design the mat on software and send them the computer file by email.

 

[Shayla]

...and of course they never pay enough to be worth the time or machine wear...

Which could alternately be written, "I never charge enough to be worth the time and wear."
Hard to know what that is, though, ergo this thread.

Dave, I'm guessing you meant to say the retail cost of the mat minus discount?

 

[Puppiesonacid]

Not at all... I charge more than they want to pay so I never get the jobs.... they offer me a price and i say no. guy wanted me to cut 150 mats for 50 bucks if that gives you any idea what they are up to.

 

[GUMBY GCF]

Not at all... I charge more than they want to pay so I never get the jobs.... they offer me a price and i say no. guy wanted me to cut 150 mats for 50 bucks if that gives you any idea what they are up to.

What size were the 150 mats and did that include the board?

see how long it takes you to cut one mat that size down to the seconds x # of mats add 10 min. to that and and then add $.40 to the cost of material. You will be making money. By the way if you are not using tiling you are not doing it right.

 

[Kwik Picture Framing]

Why would you do a job for less than it costs you to do the job? It doesn't seem to make very much business sense to me! If the margin is only small then why not discuss raising the price a little bit to allow you to at least make a small amount of profit from each job?

 

[Puppiesonacid]

Ok, this has taken a different turn than I thought it might, but ok, I will run with it.

I was just more or less asking if peoples machines have had any break downs after using it for a long time... It be more interesting to see if those that do large capacity jobs have more break downs with their machines.

To me I wouldn't do the 150 mat cutting job for under 150 bucks... and probably around 200.... If I were able to just stand there and do them one at a time through the whole amount it would probably take about a min each after putting the mat in, cutting the inner part only because the guy was going to cut them to the outside size of 16x20... and than taking the mat out moving it, throwing the inside part into another pile and than putting a new mat in and make sure it is straight and than hitting enter and waiting for it to cut again... SO if your shop rate 60 an hour for your time... that is an hour and a half of time you use... plus machine wear, and blades. so in reality 250 would be a good price for 150 mats. the guy wasn't going to pay me near that, the most he would have gone is 100, and I don't have time to do them in the time frame he wanted them.

Its always a lot of mats and no time to do them and not being paid enough for the time that it comes down to with these kinds of jobs... They always think it is just easy because of the machine without value to your machine or your time.

 

[artfolio]

Hats off to "Puppies" for thinking this through properly and telling this cheapskate a resounding "NO".

When I cut someone's own card I charge a minimum of $4 because time is money and I usually have at least 5 - 10 minutes of time talking to them, measuring the artwork etc before firing up the machine.

Production jobs which are all the same size and pre-cut to size I would still want a minumum of $2 each.

The biggest worry is that some peanut is losing money doing this work and this is encouraging the purchaser to persist in paying peanuts.

 

[Puppiesonacid]

the kicker for this guy is he is charging 5 a mat to his customer, using 2 dollar cheap mats.... so it would have cost him 200 bucks at most for me to cut them with buying the mats and paying me at his rate of 100 for the job... he would make 500 on the job after paying me... seems a little off doesn't it? That is the main reason I said no because I was doing all the work and he was making all the money. He is hand cutting them all.

 

[David Waldmann]

He is hand cutting them all.

And there's the problem. It doesn't cost him anything now, so he's got to give up profit to have you do it. Obviously his time isn't worth anything (or at least, not much).

 

[ScottK]

Replacement head on my 8000 was $2,300 (about 2 years ago) but under warranty since I used the rental program to make the purchase. Once paid off I believe the warranty is around $1,000 per year. The Jr. rental charges 25 cents per corner (8 corners per mat inside and out) plus the base rental to account for wear and replacement parts but does not cover your personal time or blade cost. One supplier was offering cut mats at the cost of the full sheet plus $8 per mat cut. They dropped the program because it was not profitable.

How is 8.00 per mat cut plus board cost not profitable?

 

[Bob Doyle]

I had a distributor that offered that service. They didn't stop offering it because it wasn't profitable they stopped because they were bought by a larger vendor. They had no real loss involved as I had to buy the mats even if they were cut wrong, because it was my mistake as I supplied the cutting file instructions. That policy on their part reinforced my "policy" of charging for "the wrong mats and/or glass" when I cut things to customer specs.

 

[Jeff Rodier]

How is 8.00 per mat cut plus board cost not profitable?

A mistake made on a $40 board results in a $32 loss. Packaging of the board and cut mat consumes time and material so $8 for labor, blades, packaging etc. was not paying off in the long run. People weren't ordering bulk mats but only specialty and problem mats 1 per board.

 

[Shayla]

Not at all... I charge more than they want to pay so I never get the jobs.... they offer me a price and i say no. guy wanted me to cut 150 mats for 50 bucks if that gives you any idea what they are up to.

Good for you! Stick to your guns.