Let's Run Over This Again...

P

Puppyraiser

PFG, Picture Framing God
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We got the Integrated Framer. We got the new computer. We got it all talking to one another. Now we need to fix it so we can switch the image to the 'customer monitor' when the design is complete. (OK, we haven't put up the camera yet, but we held the camera up in the air and it worked out pretty well for an experiment. And no, no customer saw us do it.) I asked at Radio Shack, but no switch there. They said to call Staples. Sure, they had one, but when I got there, what they had was a thing to link two computers to one monitor/keyboard (Still trying to figure out why on earth anyone would want to do that...) So, what do I do/buy now? (And remember, the first instruction to me should be "First, take hands out of pockets.")
 
I'm sure somebody will work some magic to help you with this. But I can't for the life of me figure out why you would want to set it up that way. I think its just as cool for the customer see the magic happen. If you have a dedicated computer, then just put the monitor on the wall and you and the customer work out the design together.

From what I remember IF doesn't take long to operate but what is the customer to do while you hack away at a screen that they can't see?

I know a popular method is to use two monitors but I think that really disconnects you from the customer if even for a short time. I don't like it one bit.
 
A couple of questions first.

1) Why don't you have the customer monitor just plugged in as a slave/secondary monitor? With even a virtual on/off switch or an inline A/B switch would do.

2) Why do you have your hands in your pockets when there is work to be done?

3) If your hands are in your pockets . . . are you typing with your feet again? I warned you about "Typers Toes" before. Or "Athlete's Key".
 
Hey, Ellen!

I used to have two computers connected to one keyboard, mouse and monitor. I can't remember why, but it was very cool.
 
Originally posted by Ron Eggers:
Hey, Ellen!

I used to have two computers connected to one keyboard, mouse and monitor. I can't remember why, but it was very cool.
Click to expand...
My husband fixes everybody and his brother's computers, it's a very cool thing. You just hit scroll scroll and you switch computers. People who want their computers fixed only have to bring the computer itself.
 
Hi Ellen..

To get more than two monitors hooked up to one computer, you either need:

1. As Baer pointed out, an A/B switch - this directs the signal to either monitor but not both

or

2. A dual-output video card - basically has two ports in the back to plug two monitors into

or

3. Two video cards - this one is tricky as you just can't go and buy any old video card, you have to get a card that fits an available slot, and it has to be new enough that Windows XP supports it as a second monitor

So for most people I recommend option 2, as the card usually comes with software that helps you set it up. Option 1 is the easiest, but you don't get a second desktop out of it, which is a nice place to put programs and stuff shown to customers when the computer isn't being used with IF.

Option three is certainly doable, but I highly recommend taking it to someone who knows how to do that. They have to open you box and check other slots as video cards come in several flavors (AGP, PCI, PCI express, etc.).

And finally, once it's installed you need to go to the Display Properties (R-click on the desktop and choose Properties) and enable the second monitor on the Settings tab. Easy if you know what you're doing, absolutely confusing if you don't.

I personally run three monitors at work.. gives me one massive 3072x768 desktop.

UltraMon, as Paul pointed out, is a very nice shareware tool to add features to the multiple monitor desktop that Microsoft left out.

And Paul is right, the other type is called a KVM (keyboard video mouse) switch that lets you run more than one computer on the same keyboard/mouse station. Very handy for testing, or if you have several servers that generally run unattended but occasionally need to get on them and install patches and stuff.
 
So if I use the a/b switch (which sounds like what I had in mind in the first place) where do I get it?
If I use the Ultyamon (which sounds simpler) then how do I plug two monitors into the one computer?
I may opt for the optional slide show on another computer interrupted by the IF, but right now I'm working with what I have here...
 
Ellen, you need a video card with 2 outputs. These are fairly common at any computer store. The UltraMon software lets you control the 2 monitors better then the way that Windows does.

YOU NEED BOTH.

With a set up like this you can run a seperate advertising slideshow when the monitor is not in use, feature your best jobs or new product, specialty services etc...

Then with the flick of the F11 key you can send the image to there monitor.

I can see Jays point about ingauging the customer but not all set-up will allow for this.
 
Ellen,

Rather than using the additional software I do the following:

Place the cursor on the top bar of IF and hold the mouse button while dragging the window to the side of my screen off of the monitor. The image then populates the second monitor. You do need the video card.
 
Or just swivel the monitor towards the customer!

That's the best solution till you get the other software (Ultramon) or hardware (A/B, a video card which connects 2 monitors).
 
Paul, I am leaning toward your solution. But thanks everyone for all the input. This way I can make an informed decision. And THANKS WIZARD for this delightful addition to our design counter! (now we need genuine customers to show it to...)
 
Yes Ellen, that's the way to go now.

Actually, I just thought of something that you might already have:

Many PC video cards from the last 4-5 years have an S-Video output. You might be able to connect your current video card - using an S-Video cable (Radio Shack) or it might have come with your card already - to a .....TV!

Before you rush out and buy a $3000 Plasma (which may or may not work with this solution), test this on an existing TV that has S-Video input (many do).

Worth trying!
 
Showed it to my first customer today. It brought in an extra $8.00 because we are doing a slightly fancier cut, and it showed what I had tried to explain several times verbally. Thanks, Wizard!
 
See? It paid for itself already...
 
Originally posted by WizSteve:
Hi Ellen..

To get more than two monitors hooked up to one computer, you either need:


2. A dual-output video card - basically has two ports in the back to plug two monitors into
Click to expand...
Any suggestions on which card to get and where.

Saw one on newegg.com but wanted to shop a little.
 
Any suggestions on which card to get and where.

Saw one on newegg.com but wanted to shop a little.
Click to expand...
Depends on the computer - you need to know if your computer has an AGP or PCI-E slot for the graphics card. Do you know the exact make and model of your PC?
 
Hi Steve,

Dell Dimension 2400

(I was really hoping you would see this)

BTW took the plunge, got IF this week and my 8000 will ship in just over 2 weeks.

Thanks.
 
WizSteve,

Perhaps you can suggest a 2 monitor video card setup now that IF has multi monitor capabilities.

This new feature in IF seems to work just fine but between customers I want to do slide shows and advertisements using other software. As I have to set these up and running on the framer's monitor but want them to show on the customer's monitor it seems to need the 2 monitors to run as clones whereas IF needs a different setup.

Haven't had time to sort this one out.
 
Yeah, I like the idea of the Matrox DualHead2Go, but I've never tried it. Looks sweet for laptops. It's also about $160, so I probably wouldn't rush out and get one.

If you're not squeamish about opening up the computer though, I would first try the
Matrox G450 Dual Head Card.. It's only $12-$20. My wife's been using one of these for a long time in her XP computer.

This new feature in IF seems to work just fine but between customers I want to do slide shows and advertisements using other software. As I have to set these up and running on the framer's monitor but want them to show on the customer's monitor it seems to need the 2 monitors to run as clones whereas IF needs a different setup.
Click to expand...
Nah, you don't need clones for that - you can have other stuff running independently on the other monitors simply by dragging the program to the other Window. There's also a nifty shareware app Mike recommends called UltraMon that makes that even easier.
 
I'm using a different visualization product, but the idea is similar. We use a Dell (it's probably a 2400, as you have) and simply added a single PCI video card to the machine ($11) to accomplish the task. The original monitor uses the AGP video port built into the pc's system board, while the one facing the customer is on the PCI card. Windows XP allows you to extend the desktop to the second monitor.

Ultramon is no longer required since both Picture It First and Integrated Framer have built in dual monitor support. We still use it in our shop since it supports:
-unique wallpaper/backgrounds for EACH monitor (aka holiday/season themed store policy slides)
-unique screen savers for EACH monitor (aka collage of about 100 slides that talk up optional treatments and services, which comes on by itself when the PC is idle)
-hotkey feature, so we can bump any program over to the customer monitor. (mapquest directions, liebermans image, a web site regarding art or something you are discussing, etc) It comes in handy.

Best regards and see you in Atlanta
Mike
 
Originally posted by Mike Labbe @ GTP:

Ultramon is no longer required since both Picture It First and Integrated Framer have built in dual monitor support.
Click to expand...
To clarify this a bit further:

One would still need a video card that can support (connects to) 2 monitors. No matter what Vis. System you choose, from those tow mentioned above.
 
Ellen, I'm sure you will be pleasede with your imaging software. In our shop it has already paid for itself several times over.

Like Paul, I turn the monitor toward the customer, and then turn it back again when that view is finished.

Aside from saving the expense and setup of dual-monitor capability, this method also means one less monitor cluttering up the design table. The Ceremonial Turning Of The Monitor represents a dramatic moment in the design process, and one that customers eagerly anticipate after the first view.

But maybe most important, when each view is finished, I want my customer's eyes on the art & framing samples on the table -- not watching my fumblings on their separate monitor, or staring at the blank monitor in anticipation of my turning it back on.

I'm still a bit concerned with the issue of color rendition. I haven't yet been able to make it juuuuust right. One color range or another is always incorrectly tinted. I have set and reset the "custom white balance" feature on my Canon S1-IS camera, which does yield better colors than any of the standard settings. I have tried every LCD monitor in my kingdom; each is a bit different, but none are perfect. I added blindingly-bright spot & floodlights, and then removed them, because they were distracting and didn't help.

Who has the best advice on perfecting color rendition?
 
Well, thanks for that, Ron, but I'm looking for the best advice -- that is, I'm looking for somebody to tell me what I want to hear.

I've already reallocated the design table real estate that was formerly occupied by those behemoth old CRT monitors. If it comes to that, then to He11 with color rendition. I'm keeping my LCD's.

But I really do appreciate your advice, Ron. Really, I do.
shutup.gif
 
For clarification: I use a flat panel monitor at home. I love it. Last week, a guy came around and replaced my monitor with a Dell flat panel at work, and it's almost embarrassing how happy that made me. (The word on the floor is that it takes very little to make Ron happy. They may be right.)

But I have heard that accurate color rendition is a serious problem with current flat panel technology. I would certainly entertain (welcome, even) any opinions to the contrary.

I heard that about a year ago, so maybe things have changed.

Or maybe the photographer who told me that was wrong.
 
CNet - Get graphic: monitors for graphics pros

That's a really great section I found from CNet that reviews 4 LCD monitors made specifically for graphic professionals, and it includes a couple of other really great links about dual monitors and color management. Of course, the top-end LCD they review averages at a retail of $1800.

For color profiling, we bought a copy of Monaco EZ Color.. it comes with a doo-hickey that you attach to your monitor for calibration, and a special color chart for calibrating scanners and printers. EZ Color runs about $300 though.
 
At my digital photo workstation I have a matched pair of Samsung CRT monitors calibrated using a a Spyder 2 Colorvision system. I can usually get a good print first try on my Epson wide format from Photoshop. What I see on the screen is what I get when I print.

I have 6 LCD momitors on other computers, book keeping and pricing etc, and I really prefer them but I'll stay with the CRT's for photo printing until I have to change. If it ain't broke don't fix it!

For Integrated Framer I have 2 LCD monitors and being honest I have to say color is terrible. The subtle differences between mats, particularly light colored mats is very difficult. Integrated framer takes a simplistic view of color that just isn't going to be successful. I have attempted to calibrate the monitors with limited success. I usually operate the camera separately from IF using the Canon software which gives a little more camera control. And to get really good color control for display images I take all the elements separately into Photoshop and do the color, contrast, and brightness, before opening them in IF. This of course takes more time than can be done with customers.

On Saturday I was having particular trouble making the IF image look anything like the mats the customer wanted to see. So I opened a picture of the entire mat sampler and started picking colors from the sampler that I thought might look right on the screen. This actually worked and I got a good representation for the customer. Afterwards I checked the mat colors I had used and they were not the same as the corner samples.

When a light Celery Green mat is showing warm gray on the screen it would be nice to have 3 controls in IF, color, contrast and brightness so you could tune the mat in. Contrast control would be particularly usefull for very dark or very light frame corners which tend to go either all black or all white when the camera's auto function is reading all the light and middle tones of the mats and art.

Visualization software is a great idea and a good sales tool but it's developement has a long way to go. Having said that, I'm still glad I have it and will continue to try to improve our ability to use it.
 
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