Opinions Wanted Let me have it! Critique

Jim F

CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
Joined
Dec 14, 2008
Posts
146
Loc
Kalispell, Mt
Well, this is the first frame I have made in likely 25 years or more. The wood is Australian Cypress, and I would not recommend it as it is VERY hard. Made the moulding myself, from left over hardwood flooring. A very simple profile as it was to be somewhat rustic in appearance. The corners where mitered, biscuit jointed and glued. Final size is 23-1/2x30 Matting was done at a local frame shop as I don't have everything I need to do it at home yet.
Oh, I took the photo too :p
So how did I do?
 

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Thanks for sharing this with us, Jim. I look forward to seeing more of your work. I hope to goodness your framer has told you about the different levels of quality available in mats and glass. If not, you've come to the right place, my friend. Heck, if so, you've still come to the right place. :) Where 'ja get the wood from?
 
Well, personally I think you should have pushed the f-stop up a bit more to get that deeper depth of field, and the saturation could be about 10-15% deeper....

Oh, . . . the frame. Looks good. Suggestion, if you're going to be using more of that cypress, or some of the local pines, bear in mind that they contain a lot of turpins that even after 100 years in use, will still release. So use barrier tape on your rabbets.

[BTW: just pulling your chain on the photo..... I'm just jealous. Thems is mountains; we just have volcanoes around here.]
 
If it were my design, it would have wider mats and two of them...

Wider mats place more emphasis on the artwork and two mats' thickness will help protect the photo from inadvertent moisture damage. If you prefer the look of one mat, then hide the second one under the top one.

Color looked bang-on, and the frame joins looked good. Isn't REAL wood the best?

And I'm proud of you for showing your work for critique. I didn't work up the courage to post my first 'brag piece' for a couple of years after joining the Grumble!
 
Well. here's the deal on double mats. One was all I could afford :(
I used the Cyprus wood, cause that's what I had. I am on disability fixed income, don't have 300 bucks to frame stuff. Hence the home made framing. That, and I am plenty bored sitting around the house in the winter, so it gave me something to do. In asking about, I got varying input on mat widths, frame color etc. I used the Chicago Blues mat to help bring out some details in the mountains and the frame color helps with browns and yellows in the tamarack trees.


In doing many days of research on the net, I am finding all about the different qualities of mats, glass etc. What I am finding is that everyone has an opinion, and it is virtually impossible to get solid answers on a lot of stuff. It is like picture framing is top secret information or something. Whats the deal with that? What really got me though was how expensive materials have gotten since I played with this stuff 25 years ago. WOW, glass is worth lots of money now. Shouldn't have broken all those windows when I was a kid :D

OK so here is a list of questions. Please give specific answers,
Saying "use a good quality barrier tape" will earn you a dope slap. I want brand names!
1) Barrier tape. Give a brand
2) Preferred brands of mats
3) hinging and double sided tapes (why cant I find anyone that will tell me ATC, ATG from AIG? #### they could all be insurance scammers for all I know)
4) Point me to a direct tutorial on hinging tape use or using wheat starch and paper hinges. In 2 weeks I have not found anything that gives a simple CLEAR step by step instruction. Most of the archive stuff works on the assumption that I have some idea of what I'm doing. Hinges belong on doors BTW :icon11: (I do have some knowledge on hinging, just no insight on when to use which technque or material)

Now, there must be a 15$ book out there that gives me info on techniques. What is it called?
I am NOT going into framing as a business, or for hire. This is simpy a hobby to go along with my photogtraphy. I just wish to be able to produce a decent framing job to be able to hang in my house or to give away as gifts for family and friends. I'm all about affordable, but that doesnt mean cheap! If the difference between ok and a good job is 15 bucks, I'll spend the 15 bucks. But if a decent job is 25 and a elaborate one is 100, I'll stick with the 25. Get it?

Baer, I got a brother that lives across the river from you in WA. I'll look you up next time I get to visit.

I appreciate the comments, and thank you for the honest comments. I wish more people had the guts to say what they really think about stuff. I posted the photo to see if I made the right color choices, casue I SUCK at these things. I am slowly learning though.

Thanks again
 
And a good morning to you,too Jim! That was certainly an honest post. :)

You'll probably find that people direct you to the search options on here. If you haven't already been doing that, it's a great resource. You will most likely come away with some of these questions remaining, though. There are some materials on which there's a general consensus about quality, and others that people all have their own favorite kinds and methods with.

Have you checked out the frametek website yet? He really does give good hinging advice. Even if you're somebody who doesn't use wheat or rice starch to hinge, using the same structural methods when hinging will be better than any other way. I used to use a pendant hinge until reading there that it's the weakest kind. Now my hinges are working out much better.

There's something called Filmoplast paper tape that a lot of framers use. Real conservators wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole, but so much of it sells that it's obvious picture framers are using in a lot of places. I'm at the point where I use it sometimes and use more conservation methods sometimes. It has a kind called Filmplast P, which is translucent and only for repairing delicate tears in paper. Then theres Filmoplast P90, which is solid white and sturdier. Now they've come out with P90 Plus, which is even stronger.

If you ever do start using more conservation hinging and mounting methods, their are archival materials for doing so that will help to protect it for much longer.

Sometimes people use plastic corners or pre-folded paper edge strips to hold the art to the backing without having anything stuck to it at all. What's important is that, if you do hinge it, not be stuck down on all sides, and that it be to the backing, not the mat.

The frame liner Baer was talking about also comes in different kinds. The one I'm most familiar with is made by Lineco, and I think it's called I-Film. Am writing this from home so going by memory. There are different versions of these kinds of liner films, and he's right that with your
frame it's an important consideration.

I smiled at your ATG question. To tell you the truth, I don't even know what the letters mean. It's a double sided sticky tape that is put out by 3M Products. There's regular, which is number 924, and super sticky which is number 969. You would never want to use it to attach the art, but lots of framers place it on the foam core backing around the outside of the art and then stick the mat down to it.

Something else to know is that you should never use just a single matboard to back something. It's too thin and will warp over time. Not cardboard, either, as it's acidic. You need to use foam core board. It comes in regular, acid-free and archival. Your local frame shop should be willing to sell you pieces and parts of things like foam core.

This is already a long post, so I'll stop writing. Maybe other people will give you good ideas for reference materials. Maybe some bit of this will be useful to you, though, and that will make it worth the typing.
 
At this point anything to get a guy on the right trak is good reading. The frametek website. I did find it through reading old posts here. IT is the only place that I found that had decent information.
My questions are centered around things like you wrote above. One person says filmoplast is ok , 3 others say you should be hung for using it. Who do you believe?
AS far as the acid free posture so many people take, If it rots or decays. its acidic. Period. They don't put acid in tape, foam etc. The do however us glues, chemicals and such that can and will wreck artwork.

I hope more people chime in as Shayla has. A tidbit here and there will keep me interested. It will likely be a while till I do another frame, but I'll post up when I do.
Thanks,
 
Jim, when the weather gets better and there isn't 19' of snow on the 84, come visit your brother.
Get a hold of me before so I can be around and spend at least a day with you going over things. Maybe two. Especially if they are a Sunday/Monday. Bring some photos and some of that nasty wood.... don't worry, I have the wood shop too. We'll have a play date.

Now watch all the others chime in that they want to come too.
 
And a good morning to you,too Jim! That was certainly an honest post. :)

You'll probably find that people direct you to the search options on here. If you haven't already been doing that, it's a great resource. You will most likely come away with some of these questions remaining, though. There are some materials on which there's a general consensus about quality, and others that people all have their own favorite kinds and methods with.

Have you checked out the frametek website yet? He really does give good hinging advice. Even if you're somebody who doesn't use wheat or rice starch to hinge, using the same structural methods when hinging will be better than any other way. I used to use a pendant hinge until reading there that it's the weakest kind. Now my hinges are working out much better.

There's something called Filmoplast paper tape that a lot of framers use. Real conservators wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole, but so much of it sells that it's obvious picture framers are using in a lot of places. I'm at the point where I use it sometimes and use more conservation methods sometimes. It has a kind called Filmplast P, which is translucent and only for repairing delicate tears in paper. Then theres Filmoplast P90, which is solid white and sturdier. Now they've come out with P90 Plus, which is even stronger.

If you ever do start using more conservation hinging and mounting methods, their are archival materials for doing so that will help to protect it for much longer.

Sometimes people use plastic corners or pre-folded paper edge strips to hold the art to the backing without having anything stuck to it at all. What's important is that, if you do hinge it, not be stuck down on all sides, and that it be to the backing, not the mat.

The frame liner Baer was talking about also comes in different kinds. The one I'm most familiar with is made by Lineco, and I think it's called I-Film. Am writing this from home so going by memory. There are different versions of these kinds of liner films, and he's right that with your
frame it's an important consideration.

I smiled at your ATG question. To tell you the truth, I don't even know what the letters mean. It's a double sided sticky tape that is put out by 3M Products. There's regular, which is number 924, and super sticky which is number 969. You would never want to use it to attach the art, but lots of framers place it on the foam core backing around the outside of the art and then stick the mat down to it.

Something else to know is that you should never use just a single matboard to back something. It's too thin and will warp over time. Not cardboard, either, as it's acidic. You need to use foam core board. It comes in regular, acid-free and archival. Your local frame shop should be willing to sell you pieces and parts of things like foam core.

This is already a long post, so I'll stop writing. Maybe other people will give you good ideas for reference materials. Maybe some bit of this will be useful to you, though, and that will make it worth the typing.
Ah....Adhesive Transfer Gun..............Gee,callin it an ATG gun is kinda repetitive I think,so What!? L.(Now ya know)
 
Hey Jim,
For sure take Baer up on that offer - he is one of the best - be sure to let me know when this happens because I wouldn't mind joining up with you on a 1 or 2 day excursion to the Baer's Den for some insight...hopefully he has heard that expression before.
Like you said, everybody has their preferences when it comes to framing - some are right, some are wrong - it all comes down to experience and learning the tricks and trades from the people with the knowledge and to use what is helpful to you and not dwelling on the stuff that isn't. Heck, I have been doing this for close to 10 years and I'm a real rookie compared to 3/4 of the people that are on Grumbel. I will guarantee that I am willing to listen and learn from the Baers, Shaylas, Millers, or anyone else that are willing to give me a little of their hard fought knowledge. Just pay attention, the majority of your questions will be answered just by listening (or in the case of the Grumble by reading). By the way, beautiful frame and personally, I didn't especially like the color of the matting or the width of the matting. The color of your matting in my opinion was a little overpowering because of the darker blue, I believe I would have gone to a little light blue or even a white/grey color so that the picture was more of the focus point. The frame is beautiful...hopefully you will post more of your work. Joe B
 
Baer, I'll take you up on that offer. Don't know when though. I don't learn that well from reading but from doing. A day with someone like you would be worth a hundred books and articles. You're very kind.

I delivered the project to the new owner this afternoon. He was flabbergasted to say the least. He saw the photo several months ago, and commented that if "he was rich" he'd want to enlarge and frame it. Little did he know. He helped me out of a jam this last year, so I did it for him. :)

I'll be checking in here daily, although I might not participate much except in the warped section, where I'll fit in without much trouble. I don't have much of anything to contribute yet, but I do enjoy reading the posts and digging in the archives. Been doing that for about 3 weeks now.
Thanks again for the help and comments.
 
Thanks for your kind words, Joe. Must tell you, though, that putting my name between Baer and Jim's is like making a sandwich of the King's best bread and then using something like plain peanut butter for the filling. :) I'm just a girl who designs framing at a little shop, and they're people who write and teach all the time. I'm learning from them right along with you.

I am happy to be taking part here, though. It seems that, no matter how much skill or knowledge we might have, everyone should feel welcomed here to share their thoughts. I'm a naturally hesitant person, and the only way I could come on the Grumble was to just play brave. I learn as much as I can from the experts, and write anything I can that might prove helpful to somebody. The great thing about a forum like this is that you can take people's thoughts and make of them what you will. It's really encouraging to have found it, and being part of this conversation is something I've come to consider part of my life.
 
Don't listen to her Jim; she's not peanut butter, just a little nuts. :D

Joe, would be glad to have you along. There is a great old school house across the neighborhood that is now a B&B&B&T..... bed, breakfast, bar & theater.
The rooms are the old classrooms with chalkboards and all. And the micros are the best in town; Terminator, Black Rabbit, and Hammerhead are some of my favorites if I imbibing beer. The place sleeps 85, but the shop will be tight with three.
 
Ah....Adhesive Transfer Gun..............Gee,callin it an ATG gun is kinda repetitive I think,so What!? L.(Now ya know)

I think that ATG is Adhesive Transfer GuM and therefore it is a Gum Gun... but whoever calls it that any more? And how long have framers been using that stuff, anyway?
 
Shayla - I've learned a lot from your post so don't underestimate your contributions. Heck, if you look at it that way you also write and teach.
Baer - thanks for the offer. I wanted to catch your training session in Omaha but just couldn't because of timing conflicts. If I get out to your neck of the woods I will give you a little heads up and hopefully be able to see your work & shop in person.
 
Joe, there is always April 26th in Cedar Rapids, or earlier April in Mt Vernon, IL, or that fall special in Maui. :D [it'll be special if it happens.]
 
just curious----you have to go down under to get the materials???? wish I had an understanding client like that!!!!!!! could use the trip.;)
 
Baer - the Maui one sounds great but I will have to settle for the Cedar Rapids - already put it on my calendar. Where to I get the specifics? Joe
 
Hey Jim,

At the end of this month we will be selling our store in New Jersey and Moving to Cody Wyoming and opening a frame shop and scrapbook store therer. We will be heading out that way in Jan and will be setting up shop and hope to open March first. You are welcome to come down and check us out and would be glad to help in any way I can.

Our e-mail will be codytreasuredmemories@gmail.com

Dan
 
Thank you for what you wrote, Joe.
Your words are encouraging to me.
 
Hey Jim,

selling our store in New Jersey and Moving to Cody Wyoming

Dan

Wow are you in for some culture shock! One thing to get used to right now. When they say "it'll ship right away" that means sometime in the next couple of weeks!
I haven't been to Cody in years but I did like it there, But I was just passing through
 
Baer - the Maui one sounds great but I will have to settle for the Cedar Rapids - already put it on my calendar. Where to I get the specifics? Joe

Just for options.. there is Lancing, MI March 23 or Mt Vernon that Sunday the 29th... if all goes well.
Stay tuned.
 
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