Larson-Juhl Models

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Ron Eggers

Ron Eggers

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
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I'm not talking about the skinny and attractive people in the print ads. I'm talking about the framed samples you can buy to hang on your walls and show off the L-J mouldings. Most - if not all - of them were designed by Greg Perkins, I believe.

They are very nicely done, for the most part, and people notice them. I KNOW they notice them 'cause they ask questions about them.

Usually the first question they ask is, "Did YOU frame that?"

That's my only problem with the L-J models. I can't bring myslef to lie to the customer (especially since there's a fair chance they've seen the same model somewhere else.) I suppose I could say, "Nah. If I had framed it, it would be MUCH nicer." But that would be a lie as well - just not as obvious.

How many of you use these models - or the ones from Nielsen-Bainbridge? (I have a bunch of those, too.) What do you say when someone asks THAT question?

I'm going to see Greg tomorrow, and I'll ask him about this.

[ 04-11-2003, 03:45 PM: Message edited by: Ron_Eggers ]
 
Ron, we have about four of the Larson samples in the shop, as well as a few small Nielsen samples. You're right... first question most people ask is if we did it at the shop. Much as I'd love to take the credit for the job, I can't in good conscience do so. What I usually do is tell them the truth: "Well, no actually, those were done my the company that makes the moulding. But I can definitely do something like that for you. See, what they did here..." And then I just describe the process that goes into the design's construction. This seems to work best, for two reasons. One, they know that you actually know how to make that design or something like it. And two, by explaining what actually goes into the construction process, they get a better idea of what it might be a costly endeavor. We like having them in the shop. A great sales tool!
 
Ron, I was just at Larson Juhl this morning picking up an order. Boy do they have a beautiful showroom. Their models are amazing. I bought some when I first opened from LJ Neilsen and Roma. I had to start from scratch because there wasn't one thing here I wanted my name on, and I didn't possibly have the time to make them all. They are good selling tools. But, I have always been a bit uncomfortable knowing other shops have the same ones. I don't want to give the customers the idea that it is all prefab. So, as these sell I plan on doing my own original designs.
 
We buy the LJ,Roma,& N-B models regularly-they are nicely done and when we are busy they are a good way to put current product on display. If asked if I framed them (which hasen't come up) I would probably say "oh no, we have those made for us" implying some minions somewhere producing stuff just for us. We sell some of the framed models - perhaps 60-70% - the rest of them are great for the constant requests for donations to charity auctions ect. It is easier to claim the wholesale cost of the models as a write off than it is for custom framing or gift certificates.

Peter Bowe
Saline Picture Frame Co.
 
I tell the customer, "no, we didn't do these. They are provided by the moulding company (or name Roma, Larson, Neilsen, etc) to give you a great idea what your piece will look like framed in this profile"

No lying. Just honesty. BUUUUT here's the thing: if you run that model thru your programs, it's gonna cost you megabucks to produce. Like the one done in Medici or the fishing flies. So we put a 2X markup on the models.

again, we've told the customer where they're coming from, that they are "models" and we price them to either move or to stay and act as models
 
We have a Larsen Juhl mask. Probably everybody has this mask.

People ask about it and what tribe in Africa the mask is from.

We simply tell them it is a model we bought to show what can be done with that moulding and a shadow box. If they ask if it is for sale, we say sure. However, once they find out it is not from a real tribe, they don't want it.

Most of our show stuff, we do. Very often we put beautiful framing that belongs to customers out for show. Then when people ask, they know we do that kind of work ourselves. That also rotates pictures continually.
 
Please except the fact that I do not know how much these samples/examples cost, but there is a cost.
Could the money not be spent creating your own samples/examples using interesting things you have found in your travels?

Just a thought

Richard
 
Yes, there is a cost - a significant one, since they use museum glass, fabric mats, stacked mouldings and fillets. But it's unlikely you could produce something comparable for less money. Also, time is money.

Travels??
 
We have a few of these in the shop. They are great selling tools when the right person comes along. I wouldn't lie and tell them I did it, but I sure would tell them I could do that type of work if not better.

I only say this cause, just recently, I have started replacing what is inside of the L.J. Frame models that I have and the things that they have framed are all but destroyed, if you try to salvage the image or mats. The only thing I have been able to reuse is the Fillet. The items that I have recently redone were done with far from any conservation method of framing that I have ever seen. And someone needs to give them the lowdown on wire attachment on a frame (Facts). Also they need to get an AMP sander and fix the corners so they are close to perfect.

Other than that, they are great. I have had sales from them.

Sorry about the rant.

Mark
 
I don't know if it is just my rep or the DC warehouse or maybe just something new. They give me the picture and send me the chop at length price. Then I assemble with my own mat scraps and creativity. Maybe it is because I changed the mat colors on most of the designs (I can't STAND white mats!) and fussed at them for the attachment of the African mask. Teach ME to keep my mouth shut, right? Probably not.
 
I don't use the LJ models only because framing pieces for sale in the shop is my favorite sort of project to work on.

I get to pick the art work, the fillet, the mat, the frame. And no worries about the color of the couch. What could be better than that?

Until they are sold, these pieces are great illustrations of various techiques that can be used when framing a customer's art. It's so much easier to point and say "That is a float mount" than to try to describe the end result.

I know exactly what's inside each frame because I put it there.

No disrespect to LJ's models is intended; they are always beautiful and well done.

Kit
 
Maybe the newer Larson models are better, I'm not sure. The ones I first ordered had a fillet, mat and frame, that's it. I don't have alot of wall space, and I want my samples to be more creative than that. All the Larson samples I had have been sold, and I do my own models the way I want. It may cost more for me to do this, but at least no one else has the same display. I use them to sell ideas. I will admit to having one Roma model on the wall, because I like it. I did change the glass to AR, so it is my AR sample.
BTW-I like white mats. What's wrong with white mats?
 
Well, far be it from me to criticize Pam, who has won a bucket full of awards, but I have a strong prejudice against white mats, as they do nothing (generally speaking) to enhance the artwork. Which is why they are required on art that is to be judged. I can make mediocre artwork look better with good matting (I mean, isn't that generally what we do? hehehe) but if all the art in a competition has white mats, there is no 'boost' from good matting. My take.
 
No time for my usual epic essay, but I want to mention a couple of things.

Greg Perkins says he didn't design the majority of the L-J models, though he has done some of them, including none of the ones I have.

The models have gotten generally better and more interesting since they were first introduced. The first ones were pretty bland. I don't think they were ever intended to demonstrate c/p framing techniques.

I have personally gained a new appreciation for the 107-or-so shades of white mats I stock, especially the 6- and 8-ply rags and the Bainbridge Ultrathick Topmats. If not white, my primary mats are often such a pale tint that most people would call them white. Frequently, they are even brighter than the image highlights of the art I'm framing. :eek:

Once you learn the "rules," then you can go about breaking them with impunity.

And the most wonderful thing of all is that Ellen and Pamela both do wonderful designs and we could all learn from either one of them - which is why we're not going to fight about white mats.
 
I wasn't going to "fight" about white mats. Ellen is a great designer. I was just curious as to why she hates white mats because I think wonderful things can be done with white. I have an aversion to bamboo style mouldings. I have some on my wall, I will use them if the customer insists, but I will never like them. I guess that is how Ellen feels about white mats.
 
I guess my point was related to the original post.
Would it not make sense to create your own samples/examples so you can tell the customer that you did created them.

Aside from it just being an example, each one does not have to have museum glass.
It seems like a great opportunity to use up off-cuts and scrap material.

It would probably be a great way to show your creativity and differentiate from your competitors, who do purchase generic samples.

Box stores also use examples/samples from suppliers.

Richard
 
The Goddess shops the BB's regularly so she knows what (corner samples and framed samples, in general) to not include in her shop's display.
If they have it, I don't want it.
I see lots of L*J's framed samples there.

edie the imnotasnobjustarealist goddess
 
I feel like corollaries today. Does anyone have a preference for thse things? I find Nurre/Bainbridge and Larson are the cream of the crop. Romas I could make myself and not really worth the money
Anyone have other ideas I'd love to hear them
 
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