Larson-Juhl advertising retail prices.

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Grey Owl

Grey Owl

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Joined
Nov 2, 2007
Posts
2,618
Loc
Lakewood, CO
I noticed that Larson-Juhl is advertising prices in their ads. They may have in the past and I just didn't notice. I saw the ad in the April 2009 Traditional Home, page 74.

Some of the prices they show included French Concerto 73544 at $61.00 / ft, and Allegra 276712 at $17.00 a foot.

It would be interesting to see if those retailers that sell LJ and also advertise at 50% off, are actually off these suggested prices.
 
I haven't seen that particular ad. It seems like an insane strategy since
•There are no "suggested retail" prices.
•Retailers set their own prices based on a variety of factors.
•The customer should not be thinking in terms of price/ft. during the design process, but should consider the overall price including all components after making choices based on the aesthetic and technical considerations. This is one of the reasons we don't put prices on the samples.

I have always appreciated LJ's consumer ad campaign and its attempt to raise awareness of custom framing as a vital part of interior design. However, emphasizing price rather than value in context is the wrong kind of "awareness" to be building.
:kaffeetrinker_2: Rick
 
What Rick said.
 
The ad is rather interesting in that they show pictures of two different corner samples; the first is called Splurge [and has a higher priced sample], and the second is called Save [and has a lower priced sample].

I agree that I have never had suggested retail prices from my vendors and I set my own prices. I was surprised when I saw the prices per foot, but I thought maybe LJ had done this before.
 
I mentioned this article in Traditional Home a few days ago. The whole several page art spread is nicely done. My only problem with the LJ page is that the "Save" prices are so high that it could further discourage the public from custom framing. $28, pf is not a "save" moulding in my book. I'd like the public to know that they can comfortably come to a custom frame shop and have a reasonably priced framing option.

I like the new Lisbon line. I just ordered some of each at a nice opening discount. In fact, we have already allocated some of it to some new prints that just arrived.
 
Rick Granick said:
•There are no "suggested retail" prices.
Click to expand...

Apparently there are. That's what MSRP means. I don't agree with them doing it and advertising so, but just because you or I don't agree with it doesn't mean it didn't happen.
 
Actually, LJ has "suggested" retail prices for some time. That's exactly what their price chart is!

One of the chains in our area advertises "Always 30% off MSRP" and uses the LJ chart as a basis. It's legit whether you agree or not.
 
I don't think we want an MSRP. It requires you advertise that price. You would get cross ways with a supplier if you advertise prices lower than MSRP because that voids the entire reason of having one. That is that all shops selling the product advertises the same price.

It could create lots of problems. For one it would set a max price you can charge. What customer would pay above MSRP?

It would require you get into the discounting game. You can sell for less than MSRP but you basically discount from that point. That is why when you buy some items online they don't list the price and you have to “add to cart” to see their price. They aren't allowed to advertise their real price.

I don't suspect LJ is wanting to get into suggesting prices. Surely this was just an experiment. If they did want to push it, they would require a per/ft price be clearly marked on each sample.

Plus I don't see how you can put an MSRP on a manufactured item. I suppose a brick company could require you sell bricks for $x.xx but they couldn't suggest a price for a garage.

I think LJ is wasting money advertising their products to the public but I'm glad they do it anyway. I do not think they want to start putting their prices in those advertisements.
 
Kirstie said:
... My only problem with the LJ page is that the "Save" prices are so high that it could further discourage the public from custom framing...I'd like the public to know that they can comfortably come to a custom frame shop and have a reasonably priced framing option.
Click to expand...

That's a really good point, Kirstie.

I have not seen this particlular ad, but probably a lot of consumers would look at pretty pictures of pictures and conclude that they can get something "just as nice" at Z Galerie, Pottery Barn, Crate & Barrel, Wal-Mart, or any other retailer that sells the decent-looking $100 to $200 factory-framed wall decor from Asia.
 
An awful lot of angst here for an informative series of articles about art and frame options in varying price ranges. Not much for framers to be upset about. The frame comparison is exactly what I try to do with customers - you don't always know in advance if they won't buy the premium frame - they definitely won't if you don't show what's available. From my point of view, Kudos to LJ for participating and not under-pricing the lower cost options. The 2x mark-up on closed corner frames is a "customary", certainly not mandatory, wholesale/retail ratio - many closed corner suppliers' pricelists are retail with 50% off offered to retailers.
 
I just saw my L-J rep yesterday and she was promoting the “Larson-Juhl / Biltmore” Partnership. I haven’t had time to research all of the subtle/not-so-subtle details, but for a one time fee of $90 we can subscribe.

On this web site, however, it appears that L-J is selling framed items directly to the public. Luckily, there doesn’t appear to be an itemized break down of the costs of these pieces, but, if L-J is bypassing us and selling on-line, I’m not too sure as this point whether the $90 would be well spent.

It is interesting that the same on line catalog that we have access to is also available to the public.

I’m going to have to do some homework before I can determine if this is going to benefit me.
 
Bill Henry- said:
On this web site, however, it appears that L-J is selling framed items directly to the public. Luckily, there doesn’t appear to be an itemized break down of the costs of these pieces, but, if L-J is bypassing us and selling on-line, I’m not too sure as this point whether the $90 would be well spent.
Bill, it appears to me that when the public clicks on the link to buy the artwork, that they are taken to the Artaissance site. From there they are going to have to select a framer to purchase the are/frame from, not LJ directly. I could be wrong as I only glanced at it, but I don't think so. ;)
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
hmm... all this talk of them announcing an official "MSRP" to the public, and giving Big Boxes a gigantic upper-hand with huge discounts, and now potentially "selling direct". Why am I the only one who doesn't use them as a supplier?

They could have just as easily showed a picture of two complete picture frames, with no size announced, and said "Splurge" - $550 and "Save" -$150. There's no way for a customer to back-track the per-foot retail cost, but they would have a ratio understanding between the two. Plus that ratio would probably remain constant in all of their frame shops, as long as their markup is consistent.

...Jebus... they opened a pandora's box instead.
 
L/J strategy

Just curious.....

Does anyone know if L/J ever sits down with a selected cross section of independent (not B/B) frame shop owners to hear their concerns? Or do they care? BECAUSE.....if THEY don't care, you need to know!
 
I haven't seen this particular ad, so wouldn't know. However, I do have customer come in that specifically ask if I carry LJ, so to me that means that their campaign does have success. And hey, if it brings customers in the door; I'm all for it.

As to a price per ft; most of my customers wouldn't even understand how to price it out. If they ask I will tell them that I will put all the numbers in the computer and out comes the price....

I do agree with Kirstie though, you don't want customers to think that you only offer the high priced solutions and alienate them.

But a frame job is more than just the price of moulding. I don't think that's so hard to explain to customers?

Or you can answer, yes, I've seen that ad too but my pricing is below their suggested retail price.
 
Jerry Ervin said:
Wow! The 276712 I sell for $10 a ft.

At 17 per, that would be an 11 time markup for me.

Does anybody really use a multiplier of 11?

At that rate, I could do 50% off all the time too.
Click to expand...

I just put it into the POS. $11.70
 
Jim Miller said:
That's a really good point, Kirstie.

I have not seen this particlular ad, but probably a lot of consumers would look at pretty pictures of pictures and conclude that they can get something "just as nice" at Z Galerie, Pottery Barn, Crate & Barrel, Wal-Mart, or any other retailer that sells the decent-looking $100 to $200 factory-framed wall decor from Asia.
Click to expand...

This is my concern as well. The ad looks like a page of a magazine article on art and framing. Very slick. And bad for business, I'm afraid.
Unless the readers of Traditional Home are loaded. I get all of these magazines free at the house. They think I'm a beauty parlor. Really!
 
j Paul said:
Bill, it appears to me that when the public clicks on the link to buy the artwork, that they are taken to the Artaissance site. From there they are going to have to select a framer to purchase the are/frame from, not LJ directly. I could be wrong as I only glanced at it, but I don't think so. ;)
Click to expand...

It appears that we are both a little bit right and a little bit wrong on this.

The selections on line are for art only, not for a completed, framed piece as I had originally thought. My error.

However, you can bypass your local (read subscribed) framer and have this unframed art sent directly to your home.

If you choose, you can have it sent to your local framer (again, read subscribed) and avoid the $15.00 S&H.

I think I'm gonna stay away from this.
 
Bill Henry- said:
However, you can bypass your local (read subscribed) framer and have this unframed art sent directly to your home.

If you choose, you can have it sent to your local framer (again, read subscribed) and avoid the $15.00 S&H.

I think I'm gonna stay away from this.
Click to expand...

That's how Artaissance works.
 
Jerry Ervin said:
Wow! The 276712 I sell for $10 a ft.

At 17 per, that would be an 11 time markup for me.

Does anybody really use a multiplier of 11?

At that rate, I could do 50% off all the time too.
Click to expand...
LS prices that one at 14.5 for me.

If they are listing prices maybe that's why the customer in the other thread had asked one of us how much the moulding cost..

Lj and others don't give is suggested prices per se, but with the bulk of us using a POS isn't the price being "set" for us already?
 
Hey, in LS the glass price is set for us. the cost of it doesn't get updated like the moulding and mat prices do. How do others deal with this potential profit losing feature in the software?
 
Bob Doyle said:
Hey, in LS the glass price is set for us. the cost of it doesn't get updated like the moulding and mat prices do. How do others deal with this potential profit losing feature in the software?
Click to expand...

In specialty soft, mat pricing is not automatically updated either, neither is glass.
I check my invoices carefully and update pricing manually when needed.
 
Bob Doyle said:
Hey, in LS the glass price is set for us. the cost of it doesn't get updated like the moulding and mat prices do. How do others deal with this potential profit losing feature in the software?
Click to expand...

Bob, you can and SHOULD adjust all the prices in whatever POS you use to reflect your costs and situation! If the glass goes up, raise your prices!!
 
Ylva said:
Now how would I make a whistling sound?????? :D
Click to expand...
:o:o:o

Kidding aside, we put our own per lite glass prices into Frame Ready and we do need to update them when there are price increases.
Mat is figured for us using our own code tables. You have total control over this in any POS.
 
Re: Artaissance shipped direct to consumer

It is actually purchased from a dealer but shipped by LJ to the customer. You are not bypassing an Artaissance dealer for the sale. The funds from the sale go directly to the dealer's PayPal account and the dealer receives an invoice from LJ for the artwork.
 
The Traditional Home article was not an (obvious) ad. It was in thier April "Art Seen" section. Steve McKenzie gave frame prices to show how the customer could "Save." six pairs of frames shown. Page 74. The article is not online but you can get a free subscription there. I look at their online art seen section periodically, as well as various design blogs to see what's new and might be popular.
 
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