Landlord needs me to move 2 stores down in the shopping center.

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UzZx32QU

UzZx32QU

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My lease runs through Sept 09. The landlord rented a large space next to my store to a hardware store and my spot. His property manager approached me and asked if I would consider a move to another location. I figured if I kill his deal when my lease was up I'd be gone. Anyway back to the subject, I agree if the deal was right I'd move. So the landlord rented the spot to the hardware store but I've never got an offer from the landlord as yet. They are expecting me to move in Jan and I just heard that the hardware store expects me out by the 15th. Are these guys smoking weed or what.

I figure worse case I stay through Sept and move to a new location. If the economy continue to soften I'll get a better deal elsewhere. The timing of this just stinks.

framer
 
Didnt you move 2 units down a few years ago? Are they sending you back to your original unit?

That stinks, either way!
 
Bill, have you reviewed the enture lease to make sure there is nothing in it that grants your LL this ability.

If you stay thru Sep, you may get a better deal from this LL too. On the other hand, as a rent-current tenent in a crappy RE market, you've got all the leverage right now. Consider too, that a good relationship with the devil you know, may be better than the risk, expense and hassle of moving.

Perhaps you want to negotiate now, some option years, or an extension, while you are in this uniquely advantageous position.

Either way, good luck. Might be time also for a quick and free initial consultation with an attorney. From my seat, this one has a slight aroma. (Or it could have just been dinner.:) )
 
My landlord just did this with another tenant in my shopping center. They paid for the build out and all. I honestly can say that the build out for the relocated tenant must have cost at least 60K. To do the relocation another tenant was pushed out (of which was my close friend). They paid her 65K to leave the center! :popc:
 
I agree that it stinks, but it could be a whole lot worse.

You’ve got plenty of time so you can plan the move at your convenience – like over a holiday weekend, say Labor Day.

They will pay for the move using contracted labor so you shouldn’t have to break too much of a sweat. If they need to do a build for you, you have some time to plan how you would like your new shop to look after the change.

You will still be at the same address (more or less) so all of your Yellow Page ads will be current, you won’t have to notify your customers of the change, or greatly modify your web site.

And, with luck the new tenants will have second thoughts after they realize how flat the economy is likely to be next year at this time, so you may not have to move at all.
 
I have met a framer that this same thing happened to. He came out way ahead. He got the same square footage at a much lower cost and the building owner paid all the expense of build out and provided manpower for the move.

He went from a mediocre looking store to a very nice and upscale look. His landlord paid a Retail Designer to design the space.

Try to work this in your favor.

The sad part is, the hardware store may flop and all that space will be empty. The landlord then divides the space back up into smaller units again.
 
Gee Bill, I don't see how they have plenty of time... ? Out by Jan 15th... that's no time at all. No time to plan even. Can't close for the holiday rush.. seems like a crappy situation to me. Even so, there must be things that the landlord can do to alleviate the crunch.
 
I'd ask for build out money, a reduced price per sq ft, and a couple months of free rent.

Also, I would ask they to leave a sign in the window telling people where you have moved, even if you are only moving a few spots.

The only fly in the ointment is dealing with a commercial landlord.
They don't seem to understand we are in a recession, and would rather leave a space open than come down on the rent, or accommodate a good tenet.
 
I made an appointment with my lawyer this morning and will be seeing him next Monday morning. If these clowns don't show their hand by then I'll have him write a polite letter to them. All I want at this point is something in writing like an offer to work off of.

framer
 
Is the property manager not talking to you?

You can't break a lease and neither can the landlord.

You should be able to get a statement of your standing before paying a lawyer.

I also know other merchants who came out pretty good in similar situations.

Good Luck
Doug
 
You may be wise to get a lawyer involved right now, instead of later. The lawyer might suggest you take control of the situation and specify the terms of the move. Then the landlord could simply agree to your wish-list. Or he could make a counter-offer, then you negotiate with aid of your legal counsel.

Keeping in mind that the new tenant displacing you might be asked to pay some or all of your expenses to acommodate their move-in, it would be fair to expect all buildout and moving expenses to be paid, at least. Favorable rent and a new lease term of your choice would be good, too. If you negotiate a payout of no-strings-attached cash from the landlord for, say, a special notice to your customers about this highly-unusual move that is certain to disrupt your business for months, perhaps the lawyer could be paid for.

Sometimes the best defense is a good offense -- unless it only serves to awaken a sleeping monster. That is, if you continue to have a business relationship, amicable is always better than adversarial.
 
If you want to stay there look to negotiate a longer lease now to replace your current one. If you move now and then to another building in September it's going to irritate your customers at best.
 
Update, the new business owner came in to say hi and asked if the landlord was taking care of me as that was a concern of his before he signed. He signed, it a done deal. He as he was asked not to talk to me yet it was easy to talk off the record and neither of us will disclose what we know to the landlord. He was told that I would be taken care of and yada yada yada... and that I had agreed to move by Jan 1st. News to me. I explain that I have had no firm offers in writing yet. He was expecting me out by the 15th jan 2009. This is real strange. I did advise him that I would do by best to push things along but Jan 31 would be my date. He said he could live with that.

However; No deal is still possible. What a mess I could make at this point. UNBELIVABLE!!!

framer
 
UzZx32QU said:
However; No deal is still possible. What a mess I could make at this point. UNBELIVABLE!!!
framer
Click to expand...

It always seems to be one sided when you are dealing with the landlord.

If you had gone to him first and said "I want to move, and I want out of the lease" he would say something like "you signed a lease, live with it" or worse.

Commercial landlords reputation as being hard to get along with is well deserved. IMO
 
So Bill, have you thought about what the framing palace is going to look like?

You have your landlord by the short hairs. Think big, and definitely get professional design help.

I can just see it now. I think you are going to come out way way ahead. You might just also schedule a cruise in there to boot.
 
You're going to see a lawyer and thats an great idea. I have been at war with an old landlord for about 2 years. Just a week ago, I reached the end of my rope with this guy. I went to a lawyer for the first time in my life. What an idiot I was for waiting so long. His advice was more helpful than I could have dreamed. I suspect you will have a similar experiance.
 
Sounds like the landlord is really willing to treat you right on this given that he has entered into the other lease already. I know that you can't give any real details yet so I'm looking forward to see how this unravels.

Good luck in negotiations.
 
things I know you have thought about?

1.what a move will cost you..
cost packing/unpacking
expense of extra personnel time
cost of business down time
accidental damage to things being moved
time taken to transfer phone billing address
time taken & expense to notify all vendors of address change
time /expense to change web site
time /expense to change customers of your change of address
(belive me even a few doors is almost as far as a mile)
time /expense to transfer all utilities gas, elec., water, trash,
time /expense to move sign
time /expense to build out the new location...lights, carpet, counters, walls,
new paint, recover walls
time /expense to have all your letterheads, envelopes, business cards reprinted
time /expense to layout the new store
have the lettering on Vehicle changed
take down reset and calibrate CMC
take down & recalibrate Integrated Framer syetem
one bottle of single malt to deal with it all
Did I miss anything?
oh yea posters to recover ceiling ...

Do I see a years free rent or maybe a new 5 year leese at $100.00 a month with another 3 year option at your current rent. Maybe just a straight $ 30,000.00-$60,000.00 cash. or figure up two months profit.
This move will be cash out of your pocket now....
 
One bottle of single malt? I would think this would be at least a 4 bottle move.
 
Johnny business is good I have cut back on my drinking... LOL
 
:fire::fire::fire::fire::fire::fire::fire::fire::fire::fire::fire::fire::fire::fire::fire::fire::fire::fire::fire::fire::fire::fire::fire::fire::fire::fire::fire::fire:

Landload took First Blood ​

:fire::fire::fire::fire::fire::fire::fire::fire::fire::fire::fire::fire::fire::fire::fire::fire::fire::fire::fire::fire::fire::fire::fire::fire::fire::fire::fire::fire:​

They finally came in with a new lease. Those retards want to give me a one year extention at the same rent. No free months and they only want to build the partitions. They expect me to pay for the rest of the move.​

This is a great deal they said, sign here.:nuts:​

Anyone think I should sign.;)​

I move my appointment up to 9:30 tomorrow morning at the lawyers. What a waste of energy.​

framer​

Think I'm PO'd?​

Film at 11...​
 
You have to realize they will offer you as little as possible in the hopes you are stupid enough to fall for it.

As soon as your lawyer gets involved, they will be backpedaling pretty quick. Do not give them an inch on this. Tell you lawyer to spank them good.:thumbsup:
 
yea maybe this is part of the "negotiation" process. That was their first offer, to see if you bite :)

Mike
 
The good news is that you have until sept to find another location. It would probably take me at least until the day before the lease expires.
 
Unfortunately, dealing with a commercial landlord is a very aggravating experience.

We have several vacancies in our shopping center of 120 stores, and the landlord would much rather leave them open, than make anyone a deal or go down on their lease per ft price.

They don't seem to realize we are in a bad recession.
Hopefully, your shark (i mean lawyer) will have some luck getting through to them.
 
I have a lease that still isn't sorted out, this is now 13 months since a similar deal where our space was altered to make room for another tenant. Although the legalities are still being "finalised" we have a verbal agreement which was made after a long session with the landlord making sure he knew exactly what we were after to make the deal work. The first day builders turned up was a week sooner than expected and they got booted out - after that everything went our way.
 
surferbill said:
... and the landlord would much rather leave them open, than make anyone a deal or go down on their lease per ft price.
Click to expand...


Here is why.

If the other tenants found out that the 'new tenant' was paying less per square foot than they were, you would have problems.

Big Problems!

In my center, we talk. And we all pay the same, save for the ones that have above 2400 sq ft.

We have one empty unit here where the video store went out. It will rent for the same as all the other units or there will be mutiny.
 
Vent on the Grumble but be calm with the enemy.

Have your lawyer tell em your not moving.

Call the hardware guy and tell him your not moving.

Forget any code of silence with Mr Hardware.

Don't be late with your rent.

Know that these guys torture people everyday and this is all part of the game.

Good Luck

Doug
 
Once you get the attorney involved you should not say anything to anyone else. All dealing should be through the attorney.
 
Be calm.
Time is on your side.
See the attorney.
Take the list.
Take your Leese.
Add one more thing now to the list.......
Attorney's fee.

GUMBY said:
things I know you have thought about?

1.what a move will cost you..
cost packing/unpacking
expense of extra personnel time
cost of business down time
accidental damage to things being moved
time taken to transfer phone billing address
time taken & expense to notify all vendors of address change
time /expense to change web site
time /expense to change customers of your change of address
(belive me even a few doors is almost as far as a mile)
time /expense to transfer all utilities gas, elec., water, trash,
time /expense to move sign
time /expense to build out the new location...lights, carpet, counters, walls,
new paint, recover walls
time /expense to have all your letterheads, envelopes, business cards reprinted
time /expense to layout the new store
have the lettering on Vehicle changed
take down reset and calibrate CMC
take down & recalibrate Integrated Framer syetem
one bottle of single malt to deal with it all
Did I miss anything?
oh yea posters to recover ceiling ...

Do I see a years free rent or maybe a new 5 year leese at $100.00 a month with another 3 year option at your current rent. Maybe just a straight $ 30,000.00-$60,000.00 cash. or figure up two months profit.
This move will be cash out of your pocket now....
Click to expand...
 
The poster ceiling comes down and can be moved as it was last move. 2 hour job.

Thats a trademark ceiling...

framer
 
Okay that is two hours labor.
What do you figure it will take to move and reset everything else???
24, 36, 48 manhours @ how much$$ per hour?
 
A good attorney will be the best money you have ever spent (or hopefully them). By all means, go in with a list, and that attorney will add to it. You should be in the driver's seat on this one. Is there anything in your lease that says they can relocate you during the lease term?
 
UzZx32QU said:
The poster ceiling comes down and can be moved as it was last move. 2 hour job.

Thats a trademark ceiling...

framer
Click to expand...

The ceiling is the first thing I thought of when I saw this thread.

I can't wait to hear what their next move is. Their offer is ridiculous.
 
Don't forget that your landlord needs to advertise that you have moved your front door to a new location. People won't see that you are still in the smae shopping center even if you only move your front door 4 feet. (Not kidding)

We had to change front doors once, and it was a four foot move. Two years later we were still having customers walking in and saying "When did you reopen? I thought you had gone out of business.".
 
Susan May said:
We had to change front doors once, and it was a four foot move. Two years later we were still having customers walking in and saying "When did you reopen? I thought you had gone out of business.".
Click to expand...

We are actually in three storefronts. When we bought the store 14 years ago, we moved the entrance from the right hand door to the middle door. We STILL have the occasional person go to the old door..... in spite of the door-sized sign that says "Use Other Door" with a big arrow pointing left.
 
Went to the lawyers this morning. He had a strange look on his face as I told him my story. An evil smile like a child gets...

The next 48 hours should tell the rest of the story... Stay tuned to the same framing website for the latest details. Film at 11...

framer
 
UzZx32QU said:
Went to the lawyers this morning. He had a strange look on his face as I told him my story. An evil smile like a child gets...
Click to expand...

Sure it wasn't a shark's smile...:p

bruceSmile-thumb.jpg
 
UzZx32QU said:
Went to the lawyers this morning. He had a strange look on his face as I told him my story. An evil smile like a child gets...
The next 48 hours should tell the rest of the story... Stay tuned to the same framing website for the latest details. Film at 11...framer
Click to expand...

Both Lawyers and Sharks always smile, when they smell blood in the water. :D
 
When it is YOUR lawyer, it's nice to see that smile... when it is the lawyer across the table, the smile just means that you just lost your shirt.

Keep us informend, and good luck.
 
Letter send. Now I wait.... ... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... ....

:beer::icon10::icon9::cool::vomit:... ... ... ... ... ...

framer
 
" we have a verbal agreement "

Lance-------beware that doesnt hold the power of the spit it took to say it!!!!!!!!!!!! If it isnt written/signed it means exactly NOTHING!!!!!!!!!
 
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