L e n g t h y Sales Consultation

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Brian K

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Joined
Jul 8, 2006
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Selkirk Manitoba
Yesterday a return customer came in with four pieces to be framed. It's been slow so the jobs were welcomed.

This gal has a really hard time making up her mind and before we were finished we had tried a gazzilion combinations of frames and mat choices. It took 4.5 hours to get her to make up her mind. I was a bag of dirt by the time we finished and shut down the shop for an hour just to recouperate.

As I'm a small one person shop other customers that came in were asked to leave their piece and contact info as there just wasn't any counter space left.

So whadda you do in situations like this?
 
This happened to me a couple weeks ago. I finally told the woman that at some point she was just gonna have to trust her framer. And she did. :thumbsup:
 
That's a tough one, 4 1/2 hours?? For 4 pieces? <Shudder>

I would have asked her if she doesn't mind that I take care of the other customers (while she continues to make up her mind).

Happens here too but usually the customer has more than 4 pieces and they don't mind at all that I take care of someone else with a couple of pieces to frame.
 
Paul N said:
I would have asked her if she doesn't mind that I take care of the other customers (while she continues to make up her mind)..
Click to expand...

That's usually how it's handled in our shop.

I did have a similar customer once in December.......unfortunately there were no interuptions. I finally told her if she wanted it by Christmas, she had to decide NOW!

Those customers do suck the life out of you.
 
I have absolutely no patience with people who are terror stricken that they might make a 'wrong' decision.
I usually get them down to two, perhaps three designs quite quickly and if they still will not make a decision, I explain that I am a one man business and I will have to charge them for my time if they wish me to stay with them while they make up their minds.
They will then either make the decision at that point or I will go to the workshop and do some framing while they potter around making this life threatening decision.

Almost always they will decide on the option that I tried to encourage them to choose from the start.

What is it about people who come to a framer who has been in the industry for many, many years and assume he knows nothing?
 
Perhaps you could have offered the reassurance of your professional opinion backed by a guarantee. We switch out mat colors here all the time and frames for the difference in the cost of the framing materials. When you calculate all the product you could have been producing in those 4 1/2 hours then you lost out big time. You can replace an unsatisfactory mat color for about 8 bucks.

But if it has been slow and you weren't needed making frames, then I guess it's ok. The thing about the other side of the counter is that it's not just the uncertainty and indecision. It's the self importance of being waiting on. That probably made her week. When you think about it, it's a lot like having a personal shopper at Barney's. You don't get that kind of service at Walmart and it feels really good.
 
You know what scares me about these types? You get them....finally....to commit and they leave.

Then you live with the real possibility they will change their mind, and probably after you've ordered it all. Yes, deposits, etc. and all that, but you would still have a confrontation to face.

I try to be sympathetic because I fibrillate over my own stuff like crazy, but can whip out a design for someone else in jig time.

They do indeed suck the air up.
 
just add $60.00 pita charge per hour........
 
If I want the customer to be really really indecisive and take up oodles of time, I use Integrated Framer. That invariably prolongs the decision process and inevitably results in a 2-inch mat border.
 
Keep a bottle of Jack Daniels behind the counter. When you find your attention waning, bring out the bottle, take a pull, wipe the top off with your shirt, and offer her a sip. It won't speed things up but it'll seem like it did.
 
When another customer comes in, just clear off a corner of the work table for them, and help both of them.

Never, ever let one person occupy your time for 4 hrs.
Plus, sometimes an indecisive customer likes to be left alone to play with the samples by themselves, so they might even welcome you waiting on someone else.
 
I had one of those today. ONLY took 1 1/2 hrs of my time. She couldnt make up her mind and told me a couple times that maybe she should bring in her daughter to help since she was the one to inherit it. Near the end, and I was wishing for a Jack Daniels bottle behind the counter, she told me that she had something framed by a competitor a couple years ago. Didnt like it. Admitting it was her fault, she took it back and demanded that it be framed for free, and she still didnt like it. It was all the design she had picked out and not the workmanship. I then told her that maybe she should bring her daughter in. Oh Gawd! I hope daughter is not as difficult as her.
 
Patience is a virtue!

Over an hour is excessive for a single project and usually that customer will excuse you to help others, knowing they are taking a long time to decide. I realize that to ask a customer to leave the pieces (if they are so inclined) is not always the best idea, but sometimes looking at the art with a fresh pair of eyes after a certain amount of time does really help them. It gives them time to think about what they've seen and heard from you without feeling the pressure of time or their eyes getting tired and brains confused by info. It allows me to take their considerations and come up with a superb design that maybe I wouldn't think of while they're also needing my hand to hold-for four hours. There's actual framing to get done, too!

I'm sure others of you have noticed that, especially since 9-11, people are needing increased confidence and hand-holding from us while deciding to spend part of their paycheck on a sentimental piece. They have put more value on these pieces because of the unsurity (sp?) of the times we are in, whether they realized it or not, which means in order to make the sales to stay in business, we are having to increase the personal service in our industry. Good luck finding that in the big box stores!
 
This is a situation that can only be blamed on the salesperson. You have relinquished control of the sale to the customer. She was not wasting your time, you were wasting her time.

I would suggest you take the time to go to your local library and check out a few books on salesmanship.

Many years ago when I first started in the business, that would happen to me as well, until I learned to control the sale. Now it doesn't. My customers appreciate that they do not spend unnecessary time trying to decide.

If you think about it, time is our only asset, don't squander it.

John
 
So John, when a customer is wavering back and forth between two mat combos, either of which looks fine, and then starts pulling other colors, what do you do? Do you tell her "this looks best" and put the others away? Do you tell her to act like an adult and make up her mind already?

How do you politely force an indecisive person to make a decision?
 
PaulSF said:
So John, when a customer is wavering back and forth between two mat combos, either of which looks fine, and then starts pulling other colors, what do you do? Do you tell her "this looks best" and put the others away? Do you tell her to act like an adult and make up her mind already?

How do you politely force an indecisive person to make a decision?
Click to expand...

That's what I do. I put the "rejected" samples away as soon as possible, even if the customer is not entirely sure of his/her decision, just to hurry things along. I "expect" my customer to "trust" me and my design decisions. Otherwise, why did they come to me in the first place?

Wendy
The Art Corner
Salem, MA 01970
www.theartcorner.blogspot.com
 
JRB said:
This is a situation that can only be blamed on the salesperson. You have relinquished control of the sale to the customer. She was not wasting your time, you were wasting her time.

John
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Dead ON!!!!!

Am I doing this for exercise or are you going to buy something?

Maybe you'd do better at "name of your competitor" with some fresh ideas. We're spining our wheels.

4 hours for 4 frames no way, no how, N E V E R. I'd go sniff some white glue.

Really,

framer

Get a new customer. :bdh:
 
I also ask them to decide which combos they like the LEAST; that way they don't have to decide which is the "best."

Then I gently guide them to the "best." What I decide!

Wendy
The Art Corner
Salem, Ma
www.theartcorner.blogspot.com
THIRTY YEARS and counting!
 
PaulSF said:
So John, when a customer is wavering back and forth between two mat combos, either of which looks fine, and then starts pulling other colors, what do you do? Do you tell her "this looks best" and put the others away? Do you tell her to act like an adult and make up her mind already?

How do you politely force an indecisive person to make a decision?
Click to expand...

"I would suggest you take the time to go to your local library and check out a few books on salesmanship."

The books will teach you that selling is a craft, or an art, not just a vocation. The books will also teach you that a good salesperson is not a manipulator who "makes" people purchase unnecessary items.

A good salesperson controls the sale by having a basic plan. In our industry we could suggest several things to keep the sale moving along. Only work on one picture at a time, set all other pictures on another table, put your effort into just that one. Don't be afraid to explain to the customer that by bouncing back and forth between pictures gets us nowhere and leads to design confusion and wasted time.

As Wendy suggested above, keep the design area clean and not cluttered up with rejected samples.

If you are worth your salt as a frame designer, you know right off the bat what will look great and enhance that picture. Get that design down as quick as you can.

Never design by price, start out by finding what looks best, ignore the price. If it turns out to be beyond what your customer can or wants to spend, at least you have the hardest part done, the actual design. Now you can look for lower priced but similar looking frames that will produce a similar effect.

I have to disagree with Wendy's suggestion of asking them what they like least, that is introducing a negative into the sale that could well lead to a lost sale. Keep everything positive. Asking them what they like least could start them thinking "this whole experience," or worse.

It is imperative to understand that what takes place in the first fifteen minutes will decide how that sale is going. After fifteen minutes of looking at designs, the customer goes blind, they can not tell a good design from a bad one. If you go beyond that fifteen minutes without the customer liking anything you put down and are still undecided, you have lost control of the sale and stand a good chance of losing it completely.

There are many more suggestions as related to selling custom framing that I am sure will be brought up.

Get the books, learn the principals of salesmanship. It will make a huge difference on your bottom line.

John
 
Yeah yeah, except the library is closed when I'm open and serving my customers. Or did you mean I'm supposed to whack them in the head with the library book, shouting "DECIDE ALREADY!!!!"
 
One couple, two canvas prints and over an hour of my time today.

They're regulars but also shrewd shoppers.

We were down to two choices on one of the prints when I offered to use Integrated Framer for a visualization. They will be back tomorrow to see the results.

IF is great for indecisive customers but no way do we use it while the customer watches but that's another subject.

For me it's been a very slow week so intuition and patience is going to trump a lot of salesmanship rules regarding the time thing.

Doug
 
You could also go to a book store after work and actually purchase the books.

John
 
PaulSF said:
Yeah yeah, except the library is closed when I'm open and serving my customers. Or did you mean I'm supposed to whack them in the head with the library book, shouting "DECIDE ALREADY!!!!"
Click to expand...

Or you could just have a quick view of Keith's DVD...
 
OR - You could put up a sign that is very obvious from your design table that says something like :-

FREE 15minute Design time with any Piece.
THEN $15.00 per 15 minutes thereafter is charged.

Make sure you point the sign out to the indecisive people.

;)
 
PaulSF said:
If I want the customer to be really really indecisive and take up oodles of time, I use Integrated Framer. That invariably prolongs the decision process and inevitably results in a 2-inch mat border.
Click to expand...

That's funny, because my experience is just the opposite -- I've found that IF really cuts *down* on "indecision time". It seems to me that most of the indecisiveness and hesitancy is due to the fact that they're not sure what the final product will look like so they hem and haw. They're typically blown away by the IF mockup and come to a much faster decision.

Another technique I use is to "read" the customer and see if they're leaning in a particular direction... at which point I'll say "Hey, I *really* like that one!" with great enthusiasm. That often serves to move them off the dime.

If a known lollygagger of a customer calls in advance, I'll try to schedule an appointment: "When can we block out some time to give your design the attention it deserves?"

Finally, if all else fails, tell them you're afraid you can't help them and send them along to your worst-enemy competitor :)
 
DVieau2 said:
IF is great for indecisive customers but no way do we use it while the customer watches but that's another subject.
Doug
Click to expand...

I'm just curious... why is this? I use it in front of the customers all the time (of course I'm set up for this, with a camera and customer-facing monitor right on the design counter...)
 
I hope i don't come off as cold hearted but I agree 100% with john and Framer

Salesmanship is the biggest answer

May i suggest a few tips that seem to work well

We use our digital equipmental to close and refer to it as "Software for the Terminally Indecisive". It's not insulting but put the client in a position to make a decision

We also implement the 25 sample rule jokingly and after about 15 or so, tell them if we hit 25 they have to go Dairy Queen and get some goodies as it looks like we're going to be here awhile

I'm with John
 
Can you imagine what the original poster's customer would do to the people of DQ?

Can I interest you in one of these?
images


How about one of these?

images


Are you sure this isn't the same color in the fabric sample you brought?

images


Ok. Enough obnoxiousness in the main forum, Sadie. Bless all our customers. And books on guiding sales are always a great resource. I cherish mine.
 
I have offered to mat the work and get them to come back and look at it with the frame sample again, this usually keeps them happy while letting you get back to paid work.
 
jeeez you're lucky

I had a lady who took up that much time(3-4 TIMES) with just ONE item!!!!!! she literally pulled every sample/mat combination in the joint! she absolutely could NOT come to any decision. only once did she leave with making one! even the old 'in my professional opinion these are you only possible/good looking chioces'---etcetc--no joy. I went thru this 2 looonnggg afternoons before I started getting a little smarter---I reminded her of her inability to come to a final descision and told her that I had vital/necessary work that HAD TO BE DONE that day and for her to knock herself out(dont I wish) and that I would be right there to assist if she ran into ANY difficulty..........she had an afternoon's entertainment(dont think she really meant to do any framing) and I actually got something productive done(including a couple of 'real' customers)
 
PaulSF said:
If I want the customer to be really really indecisive and take up oodles of time, I use Integrated Framer. That invariably prolongs the decision process...
Click to expand...

Like Jim Paradis, we use the visualization system to hasten the customer's decision, not prolong it. For my money, that is the main advantage of having it.

...and inevitably results in a 2-inch mat border.
Click to expand...

Can't you scale the displayed images? We do, and it makes a big difference. By scaling, you can make the art have the same dimensions in side-by-side images. Thus, a wider mat shows as a larger frame, which is realistic. That sells wider mats, not narrower.

DVieau2:
IF is great for indecisive customers but no way do we use it while the customer watches but that's another subject.
Click to expand...

Is that because you think it takes too long? With some practice, you should be able to take the photograph and display the first image within about two minutes. I don't make a big deal about it, but do it while we continue talking about the framing features.
 
Brian K said:
So whadda you do in situations like this?
Click to expand...

Hit the suspend button on LifeSaver and helped the other customer. I've had time suckers in the shop, let them have carte blanche with mats and moulding and then said "thank you for letting me help them, so what have we come up with?"

If the customer can't make up their mind I can't crawl in and make it up for them....
 
Brian K said:
This gal has a really hard time making up her mind and before we were finished we had tried a gazzilion combinations of frames and mat choices. It took 4.5 hours to get her to make up her mind. I was a bag of dirt by the time we finished and shut down the shop for an hour just to recouperate.

As I'm a small one person shop other customers that came in were asked to leave their piece and contact info as there just wasn't any counter space left.

So whadda you do in situations like this?
Click to expand...

You should be shot!

I'm joking of course, but the blame is with you for failing to take control of the situation, allowing too many choices at once (which is why there is no counter space left), and finally, not closing on each piece before moving to the next.
 
Observations

Here is what I see we have:
Several personalities

Picture Framers
Designers
Instructors
Artists
Photographers

You can get the job done with any one of these.
You will be the most successful if you combine as many together as possible. The last Personality " Sales Person" combined with any one of the above makes for the greatest chance of success.

You can make Money !~
You can Lose Money !~
You can make up lost Money !~
But you can not make up TIME !~

Howard Hughs
 
I had a customer like this on Monday. She brought in 10 pieces and just couldn't make a decision, and we had already spent a significant time on different styles.

Other customers were waiting and that was making her nervous so I asked her if she would like to set up one of my early morning appointments or a Saturday appointment so that she didn't feel rushed into something she was unsure of. She jumped at the chance and booked for Wednesday morning at 7am so that she could go straight to work from my store and not have to do errands after work.

She hung around the store and while I was working with other customers she was watching me use IF and was amazed at how fast decisions were being made. It did help that other customers commented on how much they love IF and how comfortable they are with making their decisions by seeing what they envisioned come alive in front of their eyes.

My customer came in yesterday morning with all 10 items and we were finished in 1 hour!!

She did however apoligize for taking so long on Monday and stated that watching me work with other customers made her feel more comfortable with what I had been suggesting for her pieces. She also told me that it had been a hectic day and that she had so many other things on her mind that she just couldn't concentrate and with the amount of money she was spending she really appreciated not being rushed and that she felt that I understood her dilema and was very pleased at being able to set up an appointment time that would work for her.

After being ready to knock my head against the wall on Monday and then dreading dealing with her on Wednesday morning, her words and confidence in me more than made up for the extra mile I had to go to get the job. The price tag was worth it and the free advertising that she will do by word of mouth is invaluable!!
 
4 1/2 hours? That is incredibly long. I like to take my time with customers, especially new ones but nowhere this long!
I do think it sets me apart from the BB's and customers do feel welcome and not rushed in my shop.

When they bring in multiple pieces, I do one at a time. Less distracting.

I have 2 design tables, on coasters. I have enough space to have both of them in the store. I have been thinking about getting a third one, that I can roll out of the way but roll back when I have more customers. (last week I had a few days with 4 customers at the same time, that was a new one for me!)

When other customers come in, I make sure I greet them and set them up quickly at the other table. I always encourage everyone to pull off samples of the wall and try things out. Also, since this is a town where everyone knows everyone this is usually not a problem with the other customer and more often than not, everyone ends up being part of the design process. (but I keep the reign, firmly!)

I make sure at least 2 of my designs are on the table, and rejected ones are cleaned up or pushed out of sight.

I understand Wendy saying about eliminating the least favorite design and I also understand that it might sound negative.
I usually show two designs side by side, and ask which one they like best of the two. That way you are still positive, but can take away the lesser favorite. Than you move on to the next, and the next, and the next. :faintthud:
In most cases, it is just a question of the 'same' color in different shades (does that make sense at all???)

I also offer the possibility of a private appointment, before or after closing time.
 
Jim Miller said:
Like Jim Paradis, we use the visualization system to hasten the customer's decision, not prolong it. For my money, that is the main advantage of having it.



Can't you scale the displayed images? We do, and it makes a big difference. By scaling, you can make the art have the same dimensions in side-by-side images. Thus, a wider mat shows as a larger frame, which is realistic. That sells wider mats, not narrower.

DVieau2:

Is that because you think it takes too long? With some practice, you should be able to take the photograph and display the first image within about two minutes. I don't make a big deal about it, but do it while we continue talking about the framing features.
Click to expand...

Jim, of course I use it to hasten the decision. With truly indecisive customers, however, they want to see all the mat combos and frame combos visualized -- "let's try this mat on top and this on bottom with that frame sample...then the other frame sample...now let's flip the mats with this frame sample, now that frame sample, now let's see them all with 3 inch mat widths, now 2 inch mat widths, now 1 inch mat widths, etc." You get the idea?

As for scaling, of course I scale. My store just happens to be trapped in a 1970s time warp, where people prefer 1-inch mat widths over 3-inch mat widths, even when they can see how it looks.
 
Doug Gemmell said:
Keep a bottle of Jack Daniels behind the counter. When you find your attention waning, bring out the bottle, take a pull, wipe the top off with your shirt, and offer her a sip. It won't speed things up but it'll seem like it did.
Click to expand...

I like DOUG! :D :D
I sometimes think, with some of my customers, that I should be a psychiatrist!!! :faintthud:

Its not freaking brain surgery!!! And the design can always be changed!! :D
 
I believe its imperative that every shop have an Employees handbook of some sort that sets out store policies that include sales procedures. Even if you are a oine person shop! take the courses at the conventions, read the PMA material, research the Grumble, read the PFM mag and back articles online - take a few classes on sales, & (AND IF YOU ARE WORKING WHEN THE LIBRARY IS OPEN - GO ONLINE AT 2:00 AM!!), Once youv'e done that, lay out the rules & steps for handling a customer.

It should include things like, how many samples at a time, working on one pc at a time & finalyze it, what to say if they grab samples on their own, what to do if they want to look at another pc prior to closing the first sale, how much time for each etc etc. Have it written down & know it!

Pretending you are a big business, in many ways, improves how you run your little business.
 
MabSadie2 said:
Perhaps you could have offered the reassurance of your professional opinion backed by a guarantee. We switch out mat colors here all the time and frames for the difference in the cost of the framing materials. When you calculate all the product you could have been producing in those 4 1/2 hours then you lost out big time. You can replace an unsatisfactory mat color for about 8 bucks.

But if it has been slow and you weren't needed making frames, then I guess it's ok. The thing about the other side of the counter is that it's not just the uncertainty and indecision. It's the self importance of being waiting on. That probably made her week. When you think about it, it's a lot like having a personal shopper at Barney's. You don't get that kind of service at Walmart and it feels really good.
Click to expand...

Sorry - but I can't believe you wrote that! That has got to be the exact opposite advice I would give anyone but my worst framing enemy. I guess thats what makes the Grumble special.

From my view, anyone who is willing to take 4 hrs of telling a professional that they don't know what they are doing, is certainly going to have you re-do the framing several times. About the worst promise (in my view) is to say that we guarantee you will love it or we'll change it - esp for only $8!

& I don't think were in business to JUST "make someones week".

The all the framing businesses in my area & experience that have closed down were plenty good at "making someone's week" & spending oodles of time waiting on friendly customers.

The best businesses are well trained at identifying a customers needs, making a presentation, a recomendation, and closing the sale in an efficient & timely manner. Those businesses thrive because of two things - they have satisfied customers AND the staff & management both earn a good living and enjoy their work.

Wavering from good practice ruins that nice balance!
 
My point, HB, was not that we should be making customers feel fantastic by spending time with them, but that this person's motives for dithering may be more selfish than just indecision. I don't spend this kind of time with people. I am not a personal shopper, but I can see how you took my post that way.

And I'll switch a mat color just once. And I'll insist the customer take the piece home first so they have a better idea what they are really looking for. When someone is wracked with indecision and I'm impatient to get back to the business of finishing projects, that guarantee can be a great closer for me. My shop rate is $60/hour, so if I spend an hour with someone I am losing money, whereas if I have to change a mat with material and labor, I spend about 20 bucks max and still make a profit.
 
It's a girl thing, usually. You know how the wife brings you to a store to buy something and you are there for like an hour longer than necessary because she's browsing? It's like that. The pleasure of shopping and the attention of being waited on can make some people just drag out a frame design forever if you're not in control of it.

I agree with all the advice here about salesmanship. I'm the 10 minute wonder myself. And sometimes the people who get a free mat that DON'T take advantage of me are very very loyal customers because they know I care how they feel about their projects. But if I am being taken advantage of, it stops.
 
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