Opinions Wanted Kolner Water Gild System Suggestions

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Wondering what suggestions you all may have concerning Kolner system. I am interested in it being less time consuming than traditional H2O gilding while still having a burnished finish. I know it is not the real deal, but not every customer can afford or want to pay for that. I have tried a few small frames with the system but the adhesion with Colnasol liquor is failing. Thinking the problem is that the bass wood is not fully sealed.
My guess is that Colnasol gel is Polyvinyl Alcohol based on what is on the old inter-web? Can some rabbit skin glue be added to the liquor to help adhesion without major malfunction?
 
I've tried a few of these systems - although not that one. The thing is, with leafing the quality of the finish depends on the smoothness of the surface. To get decent results you have as much work as with trad water gilding. The only saving is the cost of real gold leaf v. imitation.

Could be you are applying the leaf too soon. Size has to be just the right tack to work well.
 
Joseph, thanks for the link. This is the information I was working from. Sepp Leaf's site gave out a few other ideas too. We have to get together and meet sometime when your in Maine. Maybe coffee at Treats. I'm in Newcastle.
Anyway, I did not order the Kolner primer p to seal the wood. Instead I used 1 1/2 pound dewaxed shellac to seal the wood which a few people recommended as a cheaper alternative. My best guess at this point is that when I wet polished the clay with denturated alcohol as suggested, I must have compromised my sealed surface by reactivating shellac. Guessing the size, even when tripled just sunk into the substrate. I am ordering a few things from Sepp today and hope to decide once and for all by the end of the week if it will be worth it.
It does save time however. When I water gild, I allow a few days to go by after just about every step to avoid gremlins and allow full drying before going on. Anything to prevent mitre cracks. Not to mention all the time mixing glue, gesso and bole.
With the Kolner system the surface is fully closed and is way less prone to cracking. You do not have to mix anything except liquor, and as soon as it dries you can go to the next step.The gold is certainly more mat in finish but does burnish and looks passable from what gold did stick to my clay. In no way a replacement for the real deal I know and maybe after writing this, it sounds to good to be true.
Any other ideas, please let me know, otherwise I will post more info after trying a few things. Always tinkering.
 
I am interested to hear if you are successful. I also make frames that are not full-blown water gilded, but just accents, and I am looking at Kolner to see if it might be more efficient in terms of time and material.

One reason I didn't pursue it more was that originally there were tablets that you dissolved to make the Kolner liquor, which was a costly option as the resulting liquor had a very short shelf life. I understand they have changed some of this since I originally used it.

Hope there are more replies, as I am sure there are more people out there using this (could also try the Society of Gilders".

Would love to meet you, but summer feels a long way away right now! Brr.

Joseph
 
Joseph,
Did you ever meet Paul Goodnow before he passed a few years ago? He used to own a shop with Stephen Izzo before going solo.
He used kolner to make mat panels and intermixed with water gilding in the burnished areas. Then he would walrus seal the panel (ie heavy duty). But, he did not give away all his tools of trade before leaving us.
Thanks again, will let you know what I find. I am also trying their weather tight Instacoll System for a few signs I am working on.
 
We tried it when it first came out and at first thought it was great. Then we started to see our corner samples having issues, and next we had customers coming back with frames that had issues. and those were only the ones who came back. Lord knows how many didn't. Needless to say, we returned to the traditional methods.

Sue Davis, aka gadgetgal
Master Framers
St. Paul, Mn
 
Thanks Sue,
Did you seal with shellac or lacquer?
I spoke with a tech and privately with a gilder I respect. I have started some 5 inch test strips with some variables just to see. I was told to avoid silicon based sanding paper something that I completely overlooked, to seal the wood with a heavier cut shellac (2 or 2 1/2 cut) or even varnish, and that I could sneak a little bunny glue into the final coats of clay and liquor. Also told not to polish with denatured alcohol. There was some belief that I had the surface too smooth if you can believe that.
The concentrate Kolner sells is actually just fish glue so RGS can be used instead or with. Once done I was told to heavy duty seal, preferably lacquer. I want to use the system for small frames that I sell my own work in and I just want to be able to burnish vs. mat panels. I may decide it just is not saving much time after all, but I will see it out a little more.

Joseph, as you can probably deduce, it would be difficult to intermix with traditional gilding. Figured out my friend Paul was using the insta-clay on panels on top of his spayed gesso and bole and then using a thinned out wunda-size to gild those areas while using H2O to gild the burnished areas then lacquered it all after rubbing.
 
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