Keeton questions

Create a Post
O

ohiojoe

Grumbler in Training
Joined
Dec 16, 2010
Posts
4
Hi everyone! Newbie here! I'm a cabinet maker and have made more than a few frames over the years (I'm 42), and have been working with wood since I was about 10. I have matted several pictures, but just using a small logan cutter and guide. My shop burned down almost two years ago and so I've been doing some retooling and one of my finds was some Keeton equipment. I now have a 40 inch Keeton mat cutter that has "The Groover" on it, and a Keeton 50 inch stand up glass cutter, and a 27 or 28 inch circle/oval cutter that also appears to be Keeton. The equipment belonged to a man who had passed away a couple of years ago, and his son decided to sell it. It sat uncovered in his shop for those couple of years so it needs a little attention. My questions are: What is the best polish to use to clean the metal on the equipment? Should I wax any of the metal or wood (I use paste wax on some of my wood tools)? Where is the best place, web site, etc to order parts/supplies? I have a couple of catalogs, but they are 20 years old. I need replacement blades and glass cutters. The equipment appears to be original. I've read in the forum about the other head that some of you have on your mat cutters, but this one is original. I would appreciate any and all info that you can enlighten me with. Thanks for reading this
Newbie Joe
 
Welcome to the Grumble Joe. To make things easier on readers put some spaces in long posts every now and then. Start by using some Zippo or Ronson lighter fluid on the equipment. If you have rust you will need to use some 0000 steel wool or finer and gently clean it away.

Once you have it cleaned up just use some silicone spray to lubricate then wipe it clean with a soft cloth. Never mix silicone lubricant and oil based lubricant because it makes sludge. Once it is all cleaned up and in usable condition you will want to clean it with lighter fluid fairly often and re-lubricate.

United Manufacturers is one of our sponsors and may still sell supplies for the Keeton. Click on their banner on the main page of the Grumble section. Don't worry about the v-groove attachment since grooves are easy to do without it once you practice a few times. Somebody should be along with some manuals you can get your hands on soon.
 
The key to successful cutting with a Keeton is a very clean bar and head. There have been several generations of Keeton Kutters, including the highly desirable after market Hendrixon Head.

There are several old timers (myself included) who still have and love their Keeton Machines. A photo of your setup would allow more accurate commentary.

First of all, remove any blades in the head. Then, check to see that all blades have been removed from the head! Seriously, I know many who have suffered deep cuts from not seeing that one of the blades was still in the head.

Take off the hold down from one side of the bar and slip the bar out of the cutter, and then slide the head off of the machine. Thoroughly clean the head, especially anywhere where the head contacts the bar using Naptha or lighter fluid. In the day, a can of Ronsinol was always at a cutter's side. The bar and head need to be kept very clean. Make sure the roll pins are firmly seated in the hinge and that there is no play in the hinges.

A Keeton Kutter is more accurate when bolted to a table and shimmed under the base to confirm the base is flat. Symptoms of a warped base are irregular cuts in depth along the length of the cut, requiring a deeper blade setting that yields wavy cuts and overcuts. The bar should have a slight bow to it so that it lies flat when pressed. Too much pressure will cause it to bow up in the opposite direction.

If the bar is very dusty, you can use Flitz to clean it, but then you need to wash it well with Naptha to remove any residue on the bar. You also need to be sure that the space between the round bar and the flat bar are free of debris. I use a beveled piece of rag mat to really get in there and clean it out.

The absolute best lube is a DRY lubricant such as http://www.militec1.com/miva/mercha...ilitec1&Product_Code=1OZBOTTLE&Category_Code= This type of lube bonds to the bar and head to make them slip, yet will not transfer to the mat or to your hands. Do not use a silicone spray or other lube that sprays wet. It is hard to get off and makes a mess. Sorry, Jeff but I just do not agree with you on this one. You need the bar to be clean and dry. Others have used dry chain lube sold at higher end bike shops. http://www.amazon.com/Finish-Line-Teflon-Bicycle-Squeeze/dp/B000C17HKS

I also like PTFE lubricants like: http://www.jcwhitney.com/dry-lube-w...T2&zmam=15972153&zmas=21&zmac=165&zmap=16546G

http://www.crcindustries.com/faxdocs/tchdta/149.pdf

A properly cleaned and adjusted head will slide from one side of the bar to the other with just a gently shove.

Depending on your head, you may also have adjustments to assist in rocking from wear. Older original Ketons had no adjustment and if the head is worn, it cannot be repaired without going to a machine shop and having new brass or teflon wear bushings installed. (an easy fix and not too expensive.)

I would not wax the base, but would clean it very well. Waxing it will make the slip sheet slide and may give you inaccurate cuts. Also, depending on the head, you may need to use jacketed #12 no notch blades and crimp the spine with a diagonal cutter to stiffen up the jacket. If you use an unjacketed blade (which will fit) you may get wavy cuts as the blade is not stiff enough and the head is designed for a jacketed NO NOTCH blade. A #9 blade is too thin.

I would also clean and lube all of the measuring devices -but they too need to be clean and dry. Also, use a 4H pencil to mark your mats so you do not have excess graphite on the bar which can transfer to the cut with the blade.

United Mfrs. and M and M Distributors will be good sources of supplies. There are others, such as Larson-Juhl and CMI that also may have what you need.
 
Thanks guys for you input, I will definitely put it to use, but probably not till after Xmas and maybe New Years. We are doing the family thing this year, so I'll be out of my shop for a bit. I'm really looking forward to getting this equipment moving again. One question on the mat cutter. It does rock some, but if it still cuts a straight line then I shouldn't worry about rebuilding it yet? My best friend is a machinist so the rebuild shouldn't be a problem, but I don't want to do it unless I need to.
I'll try and get some pics so the next time I log on I'll show you want I've got to work on.
Thanks again,
Joe
 
Hi Joe-

A rocking head can give you curved starts - especially if your posture is not correct when you use the cutter. Your arm should be parallel to the cutter bar from your hand to your elbow. Penetration of the mat is done in a fluid motion with the head moving as the blade penetrates.

The blade should just penetrate the surface of the slip sheet and the slip sheet moved for each cut. That is why it is important to have the base shimmed flat - otherwise you need excessive blade depth which also yields a sloppy corner. The length of the cut is not the skilled part, it is having clean, square corners with minimal overcuts.
 
BEWARE!!! :)

I want to add that you should never, ever, put oil or silicone on that parts of you cutters that will come in contact with matboard. So no oils on the bed of the mat cutters, or the underside of the hold down bars.

I used to lube the mat cutter guide bar on my C&H cutter, but not on my Fletcher. The C&H glides with no ball bearings, the Fletcher has ball bearings. So if the Keeton has no ball bearings, but glides on the guide bar then use a little lube there.

Just be careful, if silicone spray gets on a matboard it is a nightmare to get out. Best not to get it there in the first place.
 
Bob Doyle said:
I want to add that you should never, ever, put oil or silicone on that parts of you cutters that will come in contact with matboard.
Click to expand...

Bob gives good advise-applicable to all mat cutters.

On a Keeton Kutter, the rod is attached to the flat bar with roll pins and also screws. Silicone (and other liquids) can seep through any play and end up on the bottom of the bar. That is why I like Naptha as a solvent as it evaporates quickly and avoid liquid lubricants (like Silicone) in favor of dry lubricatnts like those that I have suggested in a prior post..
 
and to all of the good science mentioned here I will add (non-scientifically) that a Keeton is a very personal machine. It wears very specifically to the user, and like a fountain pen can be damaged by someone that uses a different technique. I still have a few Keetons, and the one that I used the most has about 1/16" of slop in the head. It still cuts just fine...for me. I wouldn't let any one else use it though.

Also, if you could send a picture or include a serial number of the Keeton in question, we might be able to help with any issues specific to the model. Some of the later machines had issues with the chrome peeling, which is probably linked to the demise of the manufacture of the Keeton.
 
Create a Post
Back
Top