Joan Miro prints

[Mary Beth van der Horst]

I took a call a couple weeks ago about a glass replacement... sounds like a run of the mill quick fix. They finally come in with 2 pieces. I take the first one apart before realizing they're both Joan Miros! They have extensive documentation on the lives of both of these prints, so we are all darn certain they are originals. They wanted the glass fixed so they could send them to Sotheby's for auction. While we're at it, we decided to remat and remount one that just had a thin 4ply with framers tape before. I'm still squirming with excitement to have another big name in the shop(you don't find many pieces like this in South Carolina).

I have questions though.

Firstly, Sotheby's already said they're interested, but only after the glass is fixed. The customer wants me to type something official up to explain what I'm doing with them, so she can include it with all of its provenance. Any advice on protocol there? I feel like I should take a full blown condition report on the art and frame, then add notes on procedures taken.

Secondly, both of these prints have the mark HC where you would expect a edition number. Customer said she knew what that meant at a time, so I am assuming it means something like Artist Proof or Presentation Proof but still haven't seen that abbreviation before. Has anyone else seen HC and know exactly what it stands for??

Thirdly, they did ask me if there were any auction houses closer to SC than Sotheby's that may be interested. I told them the bigger the name, the more attention it is likely to receive and larger bids, which is probably true, but really I just couldn't think of any others to tell them. Does anyone have any other ideas for art auction houses that could handle these pieces well?

 

[Mary Beth van der Horst]

Ok I figured out HC... it's hors d' commerce... "not for sale" and outside the edition, like an artists proof.
That puts these in the extra rare category!

The one on the left is titled Oiseau entre deux astres. Original edition run in 1967, but this one is dated 1968.
The one on the right is titled Pygmees Sous La Lune.

 

[Rick Granick]

The one on the left looks like it may have a couple of issues. Looks like a cockle/crease on the righthand side at the mat bevel, and what looks like maybe a faint brown rectangular stain at the left of the red central element, crossing the gray circular element. This could indicate improper mounting, so be super-careful unfitting it... and of course, note any condition issues.
Rick

 

[Melinda Tennis]

Leland Little auction in Hillsborough, N.C.

 

[Ylva]

This is a conversation you should have with this customer as you should not do this for free.

If they would like a complete condition report: charge for that.

Note any findings that are not done correctly and take photos. Make recommendations, based on your findings.
Yes, I would be worried about the attachment, I see that same weird square (piece of tape?) and that would worry me. The cockling probably means that it is restricted on all sides (taped in all sides? into the mat opening?)

I would recommend a conservator to get the ripples out of the paper.

So, it all depends on how much this customer wants to do/know. Sotheby's is already interested, so do they really want a detailed condition report?

 

[wpfay]

If you want to dig a little into their value, Ro Gallery in NYC has an extensive collection.
Also, if they are not in pristine condition, the owners should have a conversation with the auction house about their value, and what their expenses will be even if they fail to sell.

 

[Mary Beth van der Horst]

This is a conversation you should have with this customer as you should not do this for free.

If they would like a complete condition report: charge for that.

Note any findings that are not done correctly and take photos. Make recommendations, based on your findings.
Yes, I would be worried about the attachment, I see that same weird square (piece of tape?) and that would worry me. The cockling probably means that it is restricted on all sides (taped in all sides? into the mat opening?)

I would recommend a conservator to get the ripples out of the paper.

So, it all depends on how much this customer wants to do/know. Sotheby's is already interested, so do they really want a detailed condition report?

Ok so the last couple of months I've been engrossed in studying for the CPF exam and participating in the PPFA study group. Every week they hammer into us the importance of condition reports, so I have started to assume it is a process we should be doing to everything that comes in. I know that can be time consuming, so the quality of the report will probably be tied to the value of the piece--higher value=more detailed observations. Are you suggesting that it should indeed be an additional service that I charge more moolah for? So far I've been pretty lazy and if there is a concern about condition or damage, I just take a picture the day it arrives, which I can always go back to. However in an attempt to align with the standards suggested by the PPFA I have since made a condition report form just in time for this to come in. Now I am practicing on these and a few other originals that have moderate damage because I know the customers are interested in valuation/resale.

Technically the customer for the Miros just asked me for something on letterhead that says I'm replacing the glass. I was thinking it would be nice to do a condition report and mention glass/mat replacement on that as far as actions taken on my end. If it does go to Sotheby's, are they going to take it apart and do their own condition report anyways? Would all of this be redundant or would a detailed report help an auction house in preliminary valuation?

How much would one charge for a condition report? Is that a standard service that you offer?

 

[Mary Beth van der Horst]

The one on the left looks like it may have a couple of issues. Looks like a cockle/crease on the righthand side at the mat bevel, and what looks like maybe a faint brown rectangular stain at the left of the red central element, crossing the gray circular element. This could indicate improper mounting, so be super-careful unfitting it... and of course, note any condition issues.
Rick

It does have a few problems... I was happy to see a rag slip-sheet behind it, but I think some idiot silly person taped it on at a point--that is the source of the rectangular stain. I pulled the remaining carrier off, as the adhesive had dried long ago. Also yes, the right hand side BARELY sat under the mat, causing a little bit of a cockle where a dip on the deckled edge caught the mat opening. The back appears to have yellowish oil stains from the inks used in the major elements of the design, and the original mount was 3 small pieces of framers tape. I think the light puckering on the bottom was because it was hinged tightly on the bottom and couldn't expand/contract as well as it wanted to. It totality, not ideal, but it could be worse.

Funny story though, the customer said that the previous owners of these prints ALMOST put them by the side of the road. Even slightly damaged, I couldn't imagine these being relegated to the trash heap. She had some colorful words to describe his education level that I did not expect to fall out of the mouth of such a nice little old lady.

 

[Ylva]

I do condition reports by request. I charge for my time and it is different for each item.

I did a few last year for insurance purposes. I took lots of photos and wrote a condition report, including a quote for re-framing and replacing items where possible. I charged my shop rate with the stipulation that if she decided to do the framing, 50% of that charge would go towards her order. I know some framers would use the full amount towards the order but I do value my time and don't think I should do this for free.

I don't do them for everything coming in, no. During the consultation I point out a few things (scratches, dents and such). If item is in a frame, I design and price first. If customer wants to go ahead with quote, I take it apart in front of them (I already quote for fit/unfit when in frame and for difficult unfitting, I charge more).

Any thing I find at that time, I will point out.

I do take photos of items and any problems I find, I will note on my work order.

To do a full condition report at all times seem unnecessary.

When customer decides to go ahead with order, I email the order confirmation and will mention the 'damage' found. More along lines of 'I think those dents and scratches will be showing minimally once framed'. Or something like that. I always give it a positive note, while still mentioning what was found.

 

[wpfay]

BTW, The HC pieces are usually reserved for marketing purposes. I would see them often when traveling art dealers (yes, there once was such a thing) would pay a visit. Often they were a little shop worn.

 

[Mary Beth van der Horst]

Well I finished looking at the right hand piece all over. Only one issue with it--it's yellowed evenly within the mat opening. Under the mats are pristine white. The "mat" on it is actually foamcore wrapped in fabric with a 2 ply rag barrier mat underneath. My first instinct is that the yellowing is from offgassing from the foamcore. Or can light exposure lead to yellowed paper--I always though it bleached?

 

[Rick Granick]

Could be a combination of both.
Rick

 

[wpfay]

Light Energy+Oxygen=Oxidation (Styrene outgassing probably didn't help).
The reason the paper under the mat didn't yellow was the supply of Oxygen was limited by the proximity of the mat and mount.

 

[Shayla]

It would be great if the owner was up for replacing glass with acrylic. That would make shipping safer.

 

[wpfay]

It would be great if the owner was up for replacing glass with acrylic. That would make shipping safer.

Good point and something that should be clarified with the auction house in advance of finishing the framing. I would imagine that acrylic would be specified just because of shipping liability alone, though it would also reduce the auction house's liability in handling the piece while in their care.

 

[Larry Peterson]

I'm a believer that anything of any value should always be framed with acrylic.

Also anything where children play, in bathrooms, in earthquake zones, anywhere where bare feet are prevalent and anywhere where pies are thrown at the art. Now convincing customers of that is a different matter.

 

[Ken Tuvman]

Great thread and I love Joan Miro’s body of work!

 

[Mary Beth van der Horst]

OMG you guys... this whole Miro project just escalated again. They've got 5-6 of them total. I think I did too much by giving them condition reports. They want me to help with some of the communication since I "know what I'm talking about." In return, they are GIVING me one of the Miros to do whatever I want with. I'm thinking just sell it along with theirs and they are fine with that. It's kindof a cool chance to find out more about how art sales work at this value and gives me a chance to talk to the galleries directly about art condition and handling.

 

[wpfay]

And you're going to learn a whole bunch more. Two things I would get first:
1. A copy of the contract with the auction house.
2. The provenance of each piece going back to the artist and publisher.

Caveat: Miro was among a handful of artists that were forged by a print shop on Long Island. Dali was the focus but Leger, Miro, Kandinsky, Matisse, etc. were all forged.

The Great Dali Art Fraud and Other Deceptions​

by Lee Catterall
Is one of the books devoted to this subject. Worth the read if your going to play in that market.

 

[Frances M.]

I took a call a couple weeks ago about a glass replacement... sounds like a run of the mill quick fix. They finally come in with 2 pieces. I take the first one apart before realizing they're both Joan Miros! They have extensive documentation on the lives of both of these prints, so we are all darn certain they are originals. They wanted the glass fixed so they could send them to Sotheby's for auction. While we're at it, we decided to remat and remount one that just had a thin 4ply with framers tape before. I'm still squirming with excitement to have another big name in the shop(you don't find many pieces like this in South Carolina).

I have questions though.

Firstly, Sotheby's already said they're interested, but only after the glass is fixed. The customer wants me to type something official up to explain what I'm doing with them, so she can include it with all of its provenance. Any advice on protocol there? I feel like I should take a full blown condition report on the art and frame, then add notes on procedures taken.

Secondly, both of these prints have the mark HC where you would expect a edition number. Customer said she knew what that meant at a time, so I am assuming it means something like Artist Proof or Presentation Proof but still haven't seen that abbreviation before. Has anyone else seen HC and know exactly what it stands for??

Thirdly, they did ask me if there were any auction houses closer to SC than Sotheby's that may be interested. I told them the bigger the name, the more attention it is likely to receive and larger bids, which is probably true, but really I just couldn't think of any others to tell them. Does anyone have any other ideas for art auction houses that could handle these pieces well?

View attachment 42646

I took a call a couple weeks ago about a glass replacement... sounds like a run of the mill quick fix. They finally come in with 2 pieces. I take the first one apart before realizing they're both Joan Miros! They have extensive documentation on the lives of both of these prints, so we are all darn certain they are originals. They wanted the glass fixed so they could send them to Sotheby's for auction. While we're at it, we decided to remat and remount one that just had a thin 4ply with framers tape before. I'm still squirming with excitement to have another big name in the shop(you don't find many pieces like this in South Carolina).

I have questions though.

Firstly, Sotheby's already said they're interested, but only after the glass is fixed. The customer wants me to type something official up to explain what I'm doing with them, so she can include it with all of its provenance. Any advice on protocol there? I feel like I should take a full blown condition report on the art and frame, then add notes on procedures taken.

Secondly, both of these prints have the mark HC where you would expect a edition number. Customer said she knew what that meant at a time, so I am assuming it means something like Artist Proof or Presentation Proof but still haven't seen that abbreviation before. Has anyone else seen HC and know exactly what it stands for??

Thirdly, they did ask me if there were any auction houses closer to SC than Sotheby's that may be interested. I told them the bigger the name, the more attention it is likely to receive and larger bids, which is probably true, but really I just couldn't think of any others to tell them. Does anyone have any other ideas for art auction houses that could handle these pieces well?

View attachment 42646

Bruncks Auction House in Asheville NC is supposed to be very good.