jig saw puzzle

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Randall C Colvin

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
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Feb 23, 2008
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Grab,Ky that's in western Green County ,Greensburg
A customer has a rather large jig saw puzzle(34x44) which is not attached in any way to the board she brought it in on(coroplast, I believe) and she doesn't want to use any adhesives or surface coatings. We are also planning to use acrylic glazing. I'm not excited about the potential for a time-consuming catastrophe and am open to any advice. Thanks.
 
You should have told her that without any adhesives or surface coatings that she assumes the risks and might receive a phone call asking her to stop back in and put it back together. :icon21:

Sorry I can not offer a better suggestion. What is her reasoning, is this one of those valuable TK puzzles?


I guess under the circumstances, I would get the acrylic and backing in place and tape the package together ASAP.
 
Hold on.......... its not sealed together at all? WHY?

Unless you are way talented and have TIME to do jigsaw puzzle........ you should tell her to modge podge and seal that thing.....
Or you can drymount it.... there is NO WAY IN HECK I would touch that if it wasnt permanently adhered to something! Thats just freakin crazy!
 
Considering the restrictions the customer has placed on the project I'd slam the acrylic up against it and move on.

Jeff K
 
This is one of those "red flag" projects!

With a piece that large, there will not be enough pressure between the acrylic and whatever backing you use to keep all of the pieces together and the odds are great that it will come apart and you will be responsible. Insist on mounting it or do not do it.
 
framah said:
This is one of those "red flag" projects!

With a piece that large, there will not be enough pressure between the acrylic and whatever backing you use to keep all of the pieces together and the odds are great that it will come apart and you will be responsible. Insist on mounting it or do not do it.
Click to expand...

Agree completely.
 
framah said:
This is one of those "red flag" projects!

With a piece that large, there will not be enough pressure between the acrylic and whatever backing you use to keep all of the pieces together and the odds are great that it will come apart and you will be responsible. Insist on mounting it or do not do it.
Click to expand...

That was my main concern - that the acrylic would flex too much and allow the puzzle to come apart. Not sure why she was so opposed to any kind of mount or brush-on coating but she was pretty adamant about that. I try not to turn away work - even when I probably should.
 
I have a customer who used to modge podge the grandkids' puzzles. Now, she just brings them in and I drymount them for her.

Maybe reversible drymount tissue? At least that would solve both problems.

Honestly though, is she ever going to take the frame apart to taken the puzzle apart to put it back together again? Sometimes customers just really confuse me.
 
Mount it...

framah said:
This is one of those "red flag" projects! With a piece that large, there will not be enough pressure between the acrylic and whatever backing you use to keep all of the pieces together and the odds are great that it will come apart and you will be responsible. Insist on mounting it or do not do it.
Click to expand...

Randall, I also absolutely agree with the statement above!

Pangolin said:
I have a customer who used to modge podge the grandkids' puzzles. Now, she just brings them in and I drymount them for her...
Click to expand...

Agree wholeheartedly with this procedure. If you Search the Grumble you will find a number of "Puzzle Mounting" threads, and find that many framers endorse the Mode Poge technique. I do not!

Most puzzles are nothing more than 1) inexpensive poster art that has 2) been mounted to a thick grey news cardboard and 3) Cut into 10,000 pieces. Now eliminate that last step (the cutting part) and what do you have? How would you handle the framing of that? You'd more than likely dry mount any inexpensive poster art if you want it to retain some rigidity.

I'd always recommend applying dry mount or wet mount adhesive to the back of any puzzle as it is framed. Mount it to a rigid substrate....matting, spacers, floating mats depending upon how much presentation is being sold to the customer. But in all cases mount it.

John
 
Why would a customer want to be able to take apart a jigsaw puzzle? Maybe she's only concerned about evidence of adhesive or some other visible change to the appearance of it. Some conversation at the design table might change her mind, especially when she realizes that her specification would substantially increase the price of the framing.

My preference would be to vacuum-wet mount it to 4-ply board, reinforced by fluted polypropylene. My second choice would be to vacuum-dry mount it to a reversible, pre-adhesive board using low-temperature, short dwell-time adhesive, such as Kool Tack.

Anyway, this customer wants to be able to take it apart. That certainly can be done, and it would be an easy, very profitable framing job. As Randy said, DCO mounting would be the best choice. Since the puzzle is so large, it would be very important to use rigid materials. In my DCO design for this project, the backing would be 3 mm or 4 mm aluminum composite material (DiBond, ePanel, Alucobond, etc.) and the glazing would be at least 6 mm acrylic. If matting is involved, be sure to construct a sturdy sink-mount on the backing board to tightly retain the puzzle's edges, and butt the mat opening up to the edges of the puzzle, which must be pressed against the acrylic.
 
Providing the puzzle is interlocking wouldn't DCO hold it together?

I have seen once someone walk around with a puzzle held vertically. Amazing !! Can't all remember how they got to holding it vertically without it going everywhere though. Pretty scary.

But yeah if interlocking and DCO theoretically should work.

Would talk customer into mounting unless she had a very good reason not to, like valuable collectors item or some other good reason.
 
In my humble opinion D.C.O is a myth.

Even if you use railway sleepers in the back and 10mm thick perspex in front and bolt them together at the edges there will still be next to no pressure in the centre.

Paper art framed this way will always cockle and a jigsaw will, sooner rather than later, fall apart.

Unless the artwork is irreplaceable or valuable for some reason it needs to be mounted.
 
I agree with mounting the puzzle but if the decision was made not to and it was to be trapped between backing and glazing there is a solution to the lack of pressure in the middle problem. The puzzle allows thread to be passed through. If for example the puzzle was placed between sheets of plexi, the plexi could be drilled and a stitch or tie put through. This could be done on a 12 inch grid pattern to pull the mount and glazing together. Definitely some appearance issues to solve but that is often the case with extraordinary framing mounts.
 
At an appropriate position relative to the puzzle pieces drill 2 holes (1/32nd inch drill bits are availabe) through plexi and mount board about 1/8th inch apart. Pass invisible thread through from the back and then back through the 2nd hole - tie.

or

Drill one hole, pass invisible thread through, put suitable adhesive on thread and pull back so adhesive is in the hole. Allow adhesive to set and trim thread off flush with front surface.

Actually the puzzle could be stitched to the mount board - lots of stitches but no need to go through the glazing.
 
artfolio said:
In my humble opinion D.C.O is a myth...Even if you...bolt them together at the edges there will still be next to no pressure in the centre.
Click to expand...

In your humble opinion, what is the purpose of the layers of polyester batting behind the mounted item?

In my limited experience, compressing that material provides pressure overall, including the center.
 
Jim Miller said:
In your humble opinion, what is the purpose of the layers of polyester batting behind the mounted item?

In my limited experience, compressing that material provides pressure overall, including the center.
Click to expand...
O.K, I stand corrected:faintthud:

Something which could be compressed would certainly keep the jigsaw together but it is still far from ideal to have it in contact with the glazing. However, if the customer is prepared to accept this it would be a fairly simple solution.
 
artfolio said:
O.K, I stand corrected:faintthud:

Something which could be compressed would certainly keep the jigsaw together but it is still far from ideal to have it in contact with the glazing. However, if the customer is prepared to accept this it would be a fairly simple solution.
Click to expand...

Not a problem if the glazing is acrylic, and every time Jim has mentioned DCO mounting he has taken great pains to point out that acrylic, NOT GLASS, should be used.
 
artfolio said:
...but it is still far from ideal to have it in contact with the glazing. However, if the customer is prepared to accept this it would be a fairly simple solution.
Click to expand...

It might be useful to say (again) that Direct Contact Overlay (DCO) mounting in this case would be done with acrylic. The main hazard would be abrasion of the acrylic sheet's inside surface. Also, moisture could condense if the frame were exposed to a fast, extreme change of temperature in high humidity.

DCO techniques for other items also include fine mesh fabrics and clear film overlays, but glass is never to be used n DCO mounting, unless it is insulated from dew point conditions by a second, outer layer.

Yes, DCO mounting generally is a fairly simple, cost-effective solution.

EDIT: You're faster than me this morning, David.
:faintthud:
 
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