Question Is it ok to be disappointed?

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HarryGMCPF

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Joined
Nov 15, 2004
Posts
797
Loc
Northborough, MA
I recently had an issue with a framed piece I sent via UPS to a gallery for a customer and it arrived damaged. (I know, file a claim with UPS, but that's a seperate issue and not the point here.) My customer needed this piece on a very tight time frame and did not have time to get it back to me for repair, so I asked them to take it to a local framer and let me know who it was and I would call them and discuss the options for fixing this damaged piece. They did just that and I called the framer about the repair.

Now here is my issue, and maybe I'm wrong, but... here goes. They were completely unwilling to work with me and do any sort of professional courtisy. Now I did not expect it for nothing, but I did not expect that they would charge me RETAIL and a RUSH CHARGE to get it fixed on time! This would have been nearly 2 times what I charged the customer in the first place.

I was completely amazed. Like I said, maybe I'm crazy and I'm sure you all will tell me so if you think so, but I know if the shoe were on the other foot, I would have worked with the other guy to solve the issue and ultimately, with this particular repair I might not have charged for at all.

So back to my question, Is it OK to be disappointed?
 
Yup!

Sounds to me they figured what does it matter he can claim the cost through UPS for the repair. I would have handled it differently Harry. But it also depends on the person you are dealing with. I think in this industry many of us tend to wear our brotherhood hearts on our sleeves while others are going to say...I'm a business person first and foremost...I'm out for #1 :shrug:
 
Hi Harry (where have you been my brothah??):

You're absolutely correct and have a very good reason to be disappointed. Professional courtesy is like a code of honor (at least to me).

I would not deal with those bozos again.
 
Paulie!!!!!!

I have been here and there. Actually been kinda busy and not spending a lot of time posting here. Have been reading, but that's it.

Anyway, Oh I have no intention of dealing with these folks again. Infact, I am not dealing with them now.

I have refunded some money to my customer and they are dealing directly with the framer.

A big pain in my @$$!
 
Yes, I would be disappointed.

I'm on the opposited end of that scenario right now. I had a gallery call me almost two months ago to have me fix something that their customer received damaged, and I've yet to see any sort of payment. And yes, I did give them a discount out of professional courtesy. It's annoying when the courtesy seems to run in only one direction.
 
Did you pack it correctly and was it constructed that under nornal shipping should have been received OK? Then if you did your part correct it's between the shipping company, insurance company and your client. If they then needed it fix fast thats not your problem. I would have not given any refund or discount for their loss. You did your part.

framer
 
Actually, it's not you who files the claim with UPS, it's your customer.

For future, a shout out here on the G can go a long way toward finding a framer who will help. Also a rep you really have a good relationship with can get a hold of their peer in that area and set up a phone-meet.

When there are less than 30,000 of us world wide... someone know someone that at least knows someone..... I'm betting there isn't 6 degrees of separation in this industry.

Should you be disappointed? Yeah.... it's people like that that give us a bad name. Let's vote them off of the island. :D
 
The peice was packed as well as it could have been I suppose.

This is for a fairly regular client who was refered to me by a VERY good client. I was trying to go above and beyond on this one. As for the refund, well in hindsight, I might have been too quick to give it, but at the moment it seemed like the right decission. What's done is done. The amount I refunded can and will be more than recovered over time just by keeping the customer. Not to mention the customer that refered them will hear how I went above and beyond. I hope.

My issue is not whether or not I did right by MY customer. I know I did that. It is about the lack of professional courtesy from a fellow INDEPENDANT framer.

Baer, I had no time to find someone via the G. It needed to be fixed for the next afternoon and this was at 5:30 pm. Not to mention I had a customer that wanted an answer now! GAWD, I hated being in that position.
 
So what have we learned here today?

Well, a lot of things, but here's a few quick ones:

1. Never overestimate people. (still very disappointed, but moving on...)

2. It might be time to create a "Shipping Agreement" that is signed by customers before I agree to ship anything. (Anyone do this sort of thing?)

3. Customer must pay for shipping insurance sufficient enough to cover replacment costs.

4. Create a clear policy for just this sort of thing and make it very clear to customers that they wil assume all risk.

...oh and a bunch more stuff.....
 
The refund was fine because you will receive the money from the shipping company.

Insurance should be for the value of the item. If it's damaged they (the shipping company) buys the entire thing. They may keep it too. I don't think you can insure parts of the piece. For example if the art is worth $1000 and the glass costs $50 to replace. I don't think you can file a claim for $50 and replace the class. You file a claim for the replacement cost and they will probably collect the piece.

If they don't collect the piece, and I've never shipped anything they even looked at, then you get all your money back, you refund the customer and the customer will get the glass replaced and get the entire job for the cost of the glass.
 
I had a frame shop contact me one time.... needed a piece of matboard rush like.....
I said yes I have it! Great he came and got it, I said you just owe me a favor, go ahead and take it.

Few weeks later, I needed a piece of O.S. Foamboard. He charged me the full amount for it.

I was a little hurt, I almost called him and asked for my money for the matboard!
 
pictureframingpro said:
I had a frame shop contact me one time.... needed a piece of matboard rush like.....
I said yes I have it! Great he came and got it, I said you just owe me a favor, go ahead and take it.

Few weeks later, I needed a piece of O.S. Foamboard. He charged me the full amount for it.

I was a little hurt, I almost called him and asked for my money for the matboard!
Click to expand...

Oh see now thats just plane wrong!
 
I am curious of the nature of the packing and the nature of the damage.
I started a small business a couple years ago and had problems with damage. I went through several iterations of package design until I found something that was cheap yet protected the goods.

I ship several items a week and I have found that the package has to be able to be dropped from 5 feet one edge or side and be able to withstand the impact of another heavy package tossed on to it without damage. While people have claimed to have success with lesser packing before, trust me, the odds will catch you! - especially on that expensive piece.
 
Jay H said:
Insurance should be for the value of the item. If it's damaged they (the shipping company) buys the entire thing. They may keep it too. I don't think you can insure parts of the piece. For example if the art is worth $1000 and the glass costs $50 to replace. I don't think you can file a claim for $50 and replace the class. You file a claim for the replacement cost and they will probably collect the piece.
Click to expand...

Actually, UPS will not insure art at all. You can claim a package is worth $X, and pay for insurance on $X, but if there is a loss or damage they will not pay for the "value" of the art. I believe that this is because there is no MSRP for art and they are afraid of getting rooked.

And, they will pay for repair or replacement, whatever is necessary. Believe me, they don't want to pay any more than they have to (well, why would they, I wouldn't either). Further, they will only pay for the COST of repair/replacement. The claim is paid to the payer of freight, so if that's you you are limited to what it cost you. If the customer paid for freight (to UPS, not to you), then they can pay you your full retail and then get reimbursed for the whole amount.
 
David N Waldmann said:
Actually, UPS will not insure art at all. You can claim a package is worth $X, and pay for insurance on $X, but if there is a loss or damage they will not pay for the "value" of the art. I believe that this is because there is no MSRP for art and they are afraid of getting rooked.

And, they will pay for repair or replacement, whatever is necessary. Believe me, they don't want to pay any more than they have to (well, why would they, I wouldn't either). Further, they will only pay for the COST of repair/replacement. The claim is paid to the payer of freight, so if that's you you are limited to what it cost you. If the customer paid for freight (to UPS, not to you), then they can pay you your full retail and then get reimbursed for the whole amount.
Click to expand...

To expand on this, some carriers have a disclaimer about art glazed with glass. Claims may be flatly refused if such a piece gets damaged. Best to ship with plexi glazing if possible.
 
We ship quite often.
Any framed with glass goes directly to the UPS store. They do all the packaging, so it is in their hands.
We tell the customer up front that it will be packaged, insured and shipped by the UPS store at their expense. We get their cc # and bill them as soon as we get the amount from ups.
I think when the drivers see UPS STORE on the package they must not throw or jump on the package.
As for the framer not willing to help out another framer let us know who it is so we can put them on our ignore list.:smileyshot22:
 
UPS and FEDEX will not pay above $100 for fine art or antiques. Doesnt matter what you declare or extra insurance you pay for. A Fedex claims rep told me this. So I checked it out and sure enough there is a clause to that effect in their TOS. Wonder if that would hold water if the UPS store packs it? This is why I dont ship. The gallery owner that I shared a space with temporarily shipped a $1500 painting and insured it to the hilt. He had Kinko's (affiliated with FEDEX) package it. It arrived damaged and all the gallery owner got was $100. And get this!! Fedex shipped the package back to the gallery owner in the same damaged box, broken glass and all. I am not kidding.
I cannot imagine anyone in our business not extending a professional courtesy in times of need. Wonder how this framer treats his/her customers?
 
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