Is it just my customers

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framerbob

framerbob

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
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Aug 18, 2009
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The wild west
This has happened more times than I can count.

I suggest a frame moulding to a customer, which they quickly reject with a look of disgust. So then I put it back on the wall. Then 15 min later as they are browsing my moulding wall pulling off samples themself, they pull off the same moulding they just rejected and say, "oh, how bout this one, I really like it"

Makes me feel like I'm going crazy sometimes:faintthud: Anyone else have the same problem?
 
haha. id say 50% of the time its the first sample i pull off that they go with.

i just don't put it back if i think it matches well. if it doesn't match to well, then they won't look at it again, but they kind of get the idea im going for, so they will pick something close to it most the time...

then you always get the ones that take forever... and will pick something you never thought of.
 
They're just getting warmed up. It's like pitching them baseballs. First, they swing and miss and complain about your pitching, but eventually they get contact.

Usually they like your frame after they spend some time considering how not fabulous the frame they imagined in their head actually looks on the art.
 
Happened to me all the time when I worked retail; drove me nuts (obviously didn't take much).And the dithering. Now that I've graduated to wholesale, the sale is done over the phone, often, and sort of "give me something 5 inches, ogee'sh, floral corner, warm finish." Me: OK.
 
What, no suspense? No wind-up? No choices?

We always play Q&A for about 2 minues before I show them anything. I like to ponder the customer's answers thoughtfully for a moment...Mm-hmm, Mm-hmm... Then I describe a moulding that fits with their description of the display area. Upon their affirmation, I then stare at the wall a moment, maybe ask another question or two, then gently but firmly reach for two samples. I place them both on the table and ask which is better; this one, or that one? (The optometrist taught me that trick.) Once in a while they tell me I'm a genius, and we proceed to check-out. Occasionally they tell me I'm crazy, and then we back up a few clicks and try two others.
 
One of my ladies has a mirror in to be framed.
Last week, she chose a frame, and I suggested
that we get a sample chip in to check current
stock. It came, and the finish was slightly different.

Today, she came in to see it. Immediately didn't
like it and said, 'Thanks for getting it in, but I
just don't want it if their stock is like that.' It
was fine, just a wee bit off from our wall sample.
Thereafter, I spent twenty minutes with her looking
at every other frame we could think of. She finally
found one she liked, saying, 'Maybe it's worked
out for the best that I had to re-choose.' I sat down
to price the job, and she was happy to hear that it
would only be $750.00 instead of the original $945.00.

About a minute later, she said, 'Could you show me
that first one again? I did and she said, I think I'll go
with it after all. Sorry I made you get all those others
out. ' I said, 'Now is the time to ponder it, and sometimes
we need to see all the options before we finally feel
right about our choice.'

But really, it was just too funny. :)
 
Happens quite frequently.

Just two weeks ago a lady comes in buys a print of the Venice canal from a local artist. Takes it home and comes in a couple days later for design.

We work out the mats and I pull a sample from the wall that is perfect. She doesnt like. I put it back. We look at about another half dozen samples and she then goes to the wall and pulls the first sample off the wall, not knowing that we have already looked at it, and says, "That's it". I didnt say a word. Took the order, got payment up front.

She comes in the end of last week to pick up. Say's OMG I love it. But......., that's not the frame I picked out. Yes, Mrs. So and So, it is. It doesnt matter, she loves it.

Today, her husband comes in and tells me how good it looks, but I should give them a $25 rebate for putting the wrong frame on it. I politely held my ground. Where in the heck did he come up with $25?????
 
I love your stories!!!

My customer brought in street art from Italy. She didn't want to spend much of course because it only cost a few dollars. She and Hubby start to tell me about their wonderful trip to Italy. She didn't like anything I pulled out. Finally, I reached for one of the most expensive frames on my wall, somewhere around $50 a foot at that time. I casually mentioned that this Italian moulding would look really great on this piece. Final cost......just over $1200. That was about 10 years ago, too. To top it off, the canvas was one of those cheap mass produced things.
 
I really like Jim's post. So much of what we do in sales is Romance. Which is how Candy's post came about.

When somebody buys a tourist art piece on vacation, they usually ask for a cheap frame because they are evaluating that as an investment. But as an investment, it is most likely worthless, what they NEED is to recreate that experience.

Every time they look that picture in it's frame, they can imagine they are right back there on vacation, smelling the spices and feeling the warm slanted sunshine filtered through buildings older than their religion. You can't put a price on that, and lots of people don't. You can buy a basic black and it looks like street art you bought on vacation, or you can put something on that Venice picture that looks like it was made in Venice, and suddenly, you are back there.

Sale Closed.
 
It happens to me with mats as well as frames.

When I think the first mats I pull are “perfect” and the customer rejects them I will put them to one side, face down.

Then we go through all the other possibilities. :kaffeetrinker_2:

Then I will “discover” the first ones again.

Surprising how many times that works.

Actually had a customer ask, "Why didn't you show me those to begin with?" :faintthud:

Clive.
 
Funny last week I spent 4 hrs with a client with 3 pieces and hundreds of samples, in each case we went with my first choice.

I have a little chat like Jim does, but with this one the client described one effect, I gave him a look like he wanted, and then my choice. He could not settle on a frame, kept moving from item to item, very frustrating. Spent the whole afternoon with him and no lunch for me. During the time he took a break went out to grab lunch and asked me to keep designing...grrrr :fire:


The next day he came back wanted to review, for hours again, at least he made many upgrades...:thumbsup:

I could have done much better but I was starving when he first came in at noon, and when your hungry you tend to loose some concentration, next time I'll reign in the process...or sneak away for a banana at least.
 
When you first showed them the frame, it was laying flat on a table. When they found it by themselves, it was hanging on the wall. The light in your shop reflects differently at different angles, and now the frame looks different. We had that problem until I figgured out which frames looked different at different angles.

Just show the customer that the frame can look different when the light hits it differently.
 
I ran into this just yesterday. An acquaintance came into the shop for the first time with a lovely bit of crewel work. We settled easily on mats then turned to frames. She was adamant that she didn't want gold, which would have looked great, so we looked at oaks and pines, etc. She found one that was okay, agreed to a gold fillet to perk it up. Then I said, "Indulge me a minute," and pulled out a wide soft gold moulding that cost more than the wood and fillet combined.
She said "Wow!" and paid for the whole thing without a quibble.

Sometimes you have to let them make their own mistakes first before they trust your experience.
 
RParrish said:
He could not settle on a frame, kept moving from item to item, very frustrating. Spent the whole afternoon with him...
Click to expand...

That seldom happens here anymore. When a customer is indecisive, we fire up the visualization program and show a few digital composites. The final decision seems to come faster and more confidently after visualization.

It is very important to limit the choices within view. Certainly, most customers want to see more than one set of design samples, and some customers want to see several. But if you get more than three of anything on the table, confusion often sets in. I like to show samples in pairs -- two moulding samples, two multiple mat sets -- and ask the customer to choose one.

If the customer is not yet completely satisfied, the chosen samples rest, the rejected samples disappear, and a new set hits the table.
 
I mostly work like Jim,not too many samples at the same time. However, I have a lot of customers who really want to see as much as possible, to have the impression of choice...

I spent a total of 8 hours, spread out over 3 days, with one customer :fire:
(believe me, I am usually very quick to close a sale, this was truly exceptional)
I had her leave the art with me; I put down 3 great designs for her to look at and she came back. And came back. And came back.

I think I placed every mat possible and every moulding possible around this art... of course in the end she went with one of the originals designs.
Can't complain though; it was a very good order in the end.

Some customers are just like that. Of course you can send them somewhere else; but why would you???
 
Oh, and as to the original question; yes, happens here too! I usually 'detect' my first moulding choice again with big fanfare ;'oh, how about this one, isn't it absolutely gorgeous?' 9 out of 10 will fall for that.

Sometimes I do put it back on the wall, sometimes it stays in the big pile on the table. Same with mats.

What I don't like are the customers who keep asking; 'what do you think, what do you think', especially after sometimes honestly telling them that it's not the best design for their art (I have some extreme customers who really pick the most terrible clashing combinations possible and I can't lie too well)
I ALREADY TOLD YOU WHAT I THOUGHT!!!:fire:
 
"It is very important to limit the choices within view. Certainly, most customers want to see more than one set of design samples, and some customers want to see several. But if you get more than three of anything on the table, confusion often sets in. I like to show samples in pairs -- two moulding samples, two multiple mat sets -- and ask the customer to choose one."

Very good! Helps the customer focus, even in wholesale, where customers do know what they are looking for.
 
Jim Miller said:
What, no suspense? No wind-up? No choices?

We always play Q&A for about 2 minues before I show them anything. I like to ponder the customer's answers thoughtfully for a moment...Mm-hmm, Mm-hmm... Then I describe a moulding that fits with their description of the display area. Upon their affirmation, I then stare at the wall a moment, maybe ask another question or two, then gently but firmly reach for two samples. I place them both on the table and ask which is better; this one, or that one? (The optometrist taught me that trick.) Once in a while they tell me I'm a genius, and we proceed to check-out. Occasionally they tell me I'm crazy, and then we back up a few clicks and try two others.
Click to expand...

This is exactly what I do. BUT, I never put the rejected mouldings back on the wall. I leave them on the table and tell the customer to look around and see if there's anything that catches their eye. In about 80% of the cases, they will go with my choice. The other 20% may have dozens of mouldings on the table when they realize that my choices were the best. I LOVE stacking the mouldings on the table!

Sometimes the customer asks my opinion again and I gently say "well, you didn't like the two I recommended. But, let's look at them again." Usually an instant sale.

:kaffeetrinker_2:
 
We used to have a framer/designer that just wouldn't stand for indecisive customers. I watched in horror and amusement many times when he would just stand there with his arms folded and tell the customer there is nothing else that will look good on his or her art except the couple of recommendations he had originally made.

The first time I saw him do this I was ready to fire him or at least wring his neck. He had an uncanny knack of who to behave this way with and who not to and usually closed every sale.

Some people just have to be told what they like.

:cool:
 
framerbob said:
Then 15 min later as they are browsing my moulding wall pulling off samples themself, they pull off the same moulding they just rejected and say, "oh, how bout this one, I really like it"
Click to expand...


I would say "Oh, I thought you didn't like it when you said earlier you didn't like it."

;)
 
I'm a firm believer in putting rejected samples back where they belong. Maybe it's guy-syndrome, where I get confused if presented with more than 2 or 3 choices. Also, when you have a dozen moulding samples sitting on the table, you create three problems:

1) It encourages the customer to go back and forth into that pile, when they already didn't like them
2) You can't remember where to put them back
3) When the next customer comes in right after (and they will), your shop is a mess and the new customer has to wait around while you put everything away.
 
PaulSF said:
I'm a firm believer in putting rejected samples back where they belong. Maybe it's guy-syndrome, where I get confused if presented with more than 2 or 3 choices. Also, when you have a dozen moulding samples sitting on the table, you create three problems:

1) It encourages the customer to go back and forth into that pile, when they already didn't like them
2) You can't remember where to put them back
3) When the next customer comes in right after (and they will), your shop is a mess and the new customer has to wait around while you put everything away.
Click to expand...

1) If you say "put the corner here so you know which ones you have already looked at, they won't go to the pile they JUST rejected.
2) You don't know your wall? I've got 1600 mouldings and know where they go.
3) I like for the next customer to see I'm busy. Nothing like walking into a store that looks like nothing sells.

4) Just sayin' !

:kaffeetrinker_2:
 
PaulSF said:
I'm a firm believer in putting rejected samples back where they belong. Maybe it's guy-syndrome, where I get confused if presented with more than 2 or 3 choices. Also, when you have a dozen moulding samples sitting on the table, you create three problems:

1) It encourages the customer to go back and forth into that pile, when they already didn't like them
2) You can't remember where to put them back
3) When the next customer comes in right after (and they will), your shop is a mess and the new customer has to wait around while you put everything away.
Click to expand...

I agree with you Paul. Maybe its a guy thing. I usually wait till the end of working with a customer to put everything away. But if the client is really indecisive and I can see that I’ll be spending a good while with them, and they are going to pull 50-100 samples during that time, I have to start putting away the rejects or else the table gets too cluttered.

And like you said, without a doubt the next customer will come in when the mess is the biggest.
 
For the purposes of the design process, it doesn't matter where you put the discards, so long as they are off the art and out of the main view.

There is merit to having the discards within extended view, for those customers who want to reconsider. An adjacent table or shelf works OK if you want to wait and put them away after the customer leaves.
 
I just mentally start counting the rejected samples in the discard pile and add $ 1.00 to the total for each one.

;)
 
PaulSF said:
1) It encourages the customer to go back and forth into that pile, when they already didn't like them
2) You can't remember where to put them back
3) When the next customer comes in right after (and they will), your shop is a mess and the new customer has to wait around while you put everything away.
Click to expand...

1. I usually put them aside, out of sight, but not back on the wall. Just because the first they rejected is usually the one they'll go back to when all else fails. I keep them enough out of sight to not mess up the design process.
2. The only time I have a problem with that, is when I just re-arranged my walls. Other than that; I put them back quickly
3. That is exactly why I have 2 big 4x8 design tables. It shows the customer I'm busy, while allowing the next customer to set up. Both tables are on wheels, to be put aside when needed, but so far I use both of them all the time.
 
framerbob said:
and they are going to pull 50-100 samples during that time, I have to start putting away the rejects or else the table gets too cluttered.
Click to expand...

I think the most I've had off the wall with any customer was 26 ( I counted, loudly, over and over and stopped her at that point). In the end, she chose the moulding I picked to begin with. LOL

I would never allow a customer to pull 50 - 100 corners. I would not be doing my job nor justice to the customer.
 
"Isn't that the first one you showed me?"

Yes, lady, it is.

Only now we have both lost a half an hour of our lives that we will never get back.....
 
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