Is 1/16th close enough?

Elienne

Grumbler in Training
Joined
Sep 1, 2024
Posts
8
Loc
central Florida
Business
Frame Shop Manager
I'm new to framing, 9 months as an assistant and now framing manager at a chain. I love the job and am doing my best, thankful for this forum because I feel I'm in over my head on most days!

A customer ordered a double mat with 1/4 in of the under mat showing. She brought it back saying it was uneven. I couldn't see it so I measured 3x all along both edges and it is maybe off by less than 1/16th of an inch. Basically the bevel.

She wants me to fix it because she loves the print and will be bugged by it every time she walks by.

I told her I would do my best but could not promise to be more accurate... it's 21x27 frame with a 15x21 inner window. Maybe if it was smaller I could but... is this just my lack of skill and precision or am I right in thinking that's asking alot?

I'm always behind and to spend time opening this and redoing it is stressing me... I will if that's what the professionals do and just hope eventuality I'll get faster and better. My store manager said she'll take a look and will back me up if it looks fine to her.
 
Hi Elienne, and welcome to the G.
What technique are you using to cut the mats, and what kind of equipment?

There really are no allowances for varying widths in multi-layered mats unless it is deliberate.
Techniques exist to assure uniformity of mat exposure with pretty much any kind of mat cutter.
Let’s hear what you are doing and we will try to help.
 
Thanks!

The mats were cut with a wizard and the cut is fine it's my placement that's off by 1/16th or less. I only use my table top mat cutter for windows when it's an oversized mat that the wizard doesn't do well.

My technique to place the double mats is to use atg tape in a few strips along the inside top mat and then eyeballing the space between the two mats all the way around. that had always been good enough until now.

I don't press the mats together until they look even. I thought it was even, it's 1/16th off, if that, only on the sides. Top and bottom are even. I guess I should measure from here on out because the customer can see it.

Now I need to hope the tape didn't stick it beyond separating or I'll have to order another custom mat. 😅
 
How is your shop cutting the blanks for the cutting of mats?
If you are using a CMC (Wizard in your case) and have the machine cut both the inside and outside edges, the simpliest way to aligh the openings is to match up the outter edges.
If you are cutting blanks by hand, without any stops, a wall cutter or a table shear, there could be a problem with slipage when they are cut. Every additional step in any cutting process will induce error. The same error can happen if you are using undersized blanks for the inside mat.
 
That's agood tip on the outside alligning. I do typically make sure the motors are still running between the 2 mats on a double mat cut as my former frame manager recommendedthat. In this case my former assistant cut the mats when I wasn't there and she said the blade broke on the second one and ruined it, so I had to reorder the ruined one and cut it a week later. I don't know if they will allign, but I'll try that.

I guess next time I will reorder both so I can cut them in succession.
 
If it's a 1/4" undermat, a shifted 1/16" is 20-30% off. It would be like having a mat with the left side 3 inches wide and the right side 4 inches wide. It's very noticeable.
 
Wizards register off the two clamping rails, so the lower left corner of the back of the mats should be a good reference for alignment.
nI this instance with the delay in replacement, saving the cut file would have helped with the headaches.
 
The mats were cut with a wizard and the cut is fine it's my placement that's off by 1/16th or less. I only use my table top mat cutter for windows when it's an oversized mat that the wizard doesn't do well.
I'm a Luddite (not really) that has never had a CMC. I have been cutting perfect double mats for over 20 years with my Chronomat. Are you folk saying that the top and bottom mats are cut separately and then put together manually by visually placing them together. Sacre Bleu. Tell me it ain't so, Joe. If this is the case, I am glad I never scraped enough dough together for a CMC.

The standard method of doing a double mat on a manual mat cutter makes it impossible for the reveals to be misaligned as the mats are taped/glued together before the bottom mat is cut.

Please tell me I am missing something here and that double mats are cut in the same manner on a CMC as on a manual mat cutter.
 
When I first started I also was shown to cut the two mats seperately and then to line them up "by eye".
Also on a manual Fletcher mat cutter.

I quickly became dissatisfied with poorly aligned or uneven double or triple mat reveals.

Learning the technique Larry describes saved me from the hassle of having to redo mats that didn't pass muster.

I hadn't really thought about how to achieve this with a CMC as I also don't have one.

How do CMCers ensure perfectly aligned multi tier mats?
 
The valiani will cut a triple mat with the three boards bonded together before cutting.

It cuts the top mat and then prompts you to remove the fallout before cutting the next one down. I’m sure the gunnar does similar and there’s surely a way with the wizard
 
The valiani will cut a triple mat with the three boards bonded together before cutting.

It cuts the top mat and then prompts you to remove the fallout before cutting the next one down. I’m sure the gunnar does similar and there’s surely a way with the wizard
I have never been taught how to do that with a wizard. I'll poke around in the manual and the application to see if it's in there. I imagine I'd have to adjust the depth of the blade in between?
 
I have never been taught how to do that with a wizard. I'll poke around in the manual and the application to see if it's in there. I imagine I'd have to adjust the depth of the blade in between?
With a manual mat cutter there is no need to change the depth of cut.

1. Cut the top mat
2. Attach the bottom mat to the top
3. Attach the fall out from the top mat
4. Cut the bottom mat
5. Done.
 
Thansk! Are you doing that with a Wizard?

If I understand the wizard correctly, there is a standard easement set of 2 inches to protect the metal mat holding bars on the left and bottom from the cutting mechanism when the outside of the mat is cut. So, when attaching the top mat, I'd have to get it in the exact right position, which doesn't seem possible, or at least harder. Unless I set it to not cut the outside of the mat, but eventually the outside has to be cut and to do that by hand with 2 mats... it would take longer on my table top.

And I'm not sure how the machine will handle having multiple layers. I'll look in the manual or maybe call the corporate help desk to see if they have ever had a framer do this on a wizard.
 
I have never been taught how to do that with a wizard. I'll poke around in the manual and the application to see if it's in there. I imagine I'd have to adjust the depth of the blade in between?
Not with the valiani - no idea about the wizard

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Not with the valiani - no idea about the wizard

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That's exactly how we do it with a manual mat cutter, albeit with a few less openings. The only difference is that the mats are face down rather than face up when cutting.
 
Here is a video of a double mat being cut with a manual mat cutter. The only diff between the vid and how I do it is that my Chronomat has production stops so I don't have to cut those pesky lines. Just set it up and let er rip. Stupid youtube setting that has showing video outside of youtube is disabled. STUPID.

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There is an option to "Stack Mats While Cutting" on the Wizard's current software.
I am not sure if this would make aligning a double mat easier.
I have never tried the option.
 
I'm a Luddite (not really) that has never had a CMC. I have been cutting perfect double mats for over 20 years with my Chronomat. Are you folk saying that the top and bottom mats are cut separately and then put together manually by visually placing them together. Sacre Bleu. Tell me it ain't so, Joe. If this is the case, I am glad I never scraped enough dough together for a CMC.

The standard method of doing a double mat on a manual mat cutter makes it impossible for the reveals to be misaligned as the mats are taped/glued together before the bottom mat is cut.

Please tell me I am missing something here and that double mats are cut in the same manner on a CMC as on a manual mat cutter.

You and me both. :beer:

... Except I've been doing them for 40 years on my venerable C&H. 😁
 
Here is a video of a double mat being cut with a manual mat cutter. The only diff between the vid and how I do it is that my Chronomat has production stops so I don't have to cut those pesky lines. Just set it up and let er rip. Stupid youtube setting that has showing video outside of youtube is disabled. STUPID.

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That is almost exactly how I was taught.
It wasn't until I had been working for almost a year that I discovered what production stops were for. No need to mark cut lines. Far quicker and more accurate!
 
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