Introduction and questions about assorted equipment I purchased

[JohnOConnell]

Hi! I'm John, a nature photographer in Southern Illinois. With framing options dwindling in my local area, I have decided to start doing some matting and framing myself. I enjoyed doing it in middle school in the 90s and so far have been enjoying getting back into it. It just hits differently delivering a hand-framed piece than delivering a print in an envelope.

I have gone a little nuts on Facebook Marketplace, buying up small home-run framing shops that have been closing because the owners have aged out of it (their words, not mine). Seems like no young people want to carry on the trade. I think that I have received a good value for what I paid on the lots. I spent $1600 for all of the major equipment and about 500 mat boards, 100 pieces of glass, 200+ stretcher frames, dozens of picture frames in various conditions (some new, some with ahem "character"), hundreds of hardware pieces, and some other assorted smaller tools. But now I have some redundant equipment (multiple mat cutters), some equipment I don't understand, and some equipment that may be obsolete.

I'm hoping to make the most of what I have, even if there are some newer and better electronic versions. I'm fond of working with my hands despite my day job involving tons of computer work. I don't currently plan to do a ton of framing as a venture. Moreso preparing my own pieces for sales, shows, etc, and helping out some other local artists who are looking to get stuff done in short order. So wear should be relatively light.

Here's a laundry list of items with associated questions. I'm sure I'll come up with more when I get further into it. Any advice is greatly appreciated!

Mat cutters:
I now own a Fletcher 2100 48", a Keencut Ultimat purple 48", a CH 4800A, a Logan simplex elite 60", a Logan compact mat cutter ~30", and Logan Team system rules (24" and 40"). As far as I can tell, they all come with all of the typical parts. Keencut and CH came with a bunch of blades. I plan to keep one of the 48" cutters, the 60" cutter just for any large projects, and I see no point in selling the Team system because they aren't really worth much. Which of the 48" mat cutters would you keep and why? Preferably if you have experience with several of them. Are parts especially hard to come by for any of them? Are there any things that I should inspect before I decide? I have put the CH into service and it is serviceable, but beat up and requires a lot of eyeballing. Parts are also very hard to come by. For those reasons, I'm most likely debating between the Fletcher and Keencut, both of which appear to be in very good shape.

Material cutter:
I got a Fletcher 8460 60" wall-mount material cutter. I mainly intend to use this for glass. It came with a bunch of mat blades, a pack of PVC blades, and a pack of glass cutters. When I started digging through the forum here, I got confused about different columns for different materials and I also read a lot of concerns about the unit wearing out. What should I know about this unit before I bolt it to my wall and put it into service? Is it still useful kit?

Canvas Stretcher:
I got a 48" RC Machining EZ stretch. I usually order my photo canvases already on frames and don't do other art forms. I'm wondering if it's worthwhile to start ordering loose canvas prints to stretch myself or if that's not longer time/cost-effective. It looks like I could save about 20-40% on canvases by stretching them myself, but time is also money. Also, I can't find any materials on how to use it. Any input or advice? Is this device still useful for me? If not, is it valuable on the used market? It looks like a very well-made piece of equipment and I've seen high prices for them circa 10-20 years ago, but I don't know if they are worth anything now.

Linen Hinging tape dispenser:
No, I don't have one or buy one in these lots. I don't even know if they exist. But while I'm asking questions, I wanted to see if anyone has ever built a dispenser for the Lineco linen hinging tape rolls. That's currently my mounting method of choice, which might change with time and experience, but I'm tired of trying to pull the tape and backing off the roll and then cut it, as cool as the flap on the bottom of the box is. I'd love to put a roll in something like a big office tape dispenser and then pull the backing and tape to separate and then cut on an edge like one of those dispensers. Maybe it's something I'll DIY. Or maybe I'm missing something here.

Thank you for your input and advice! I'm excited to dive deeper into this field!

 

[Ylva]

Welcome to the G, John!

As for manual mat cutters, I've only used a Fletcher and a C+H manual. I have the C+H but preferred the Fletcher. Personal preference. I now have a CMC, so I don't do any manual mat cutting anymore.

I still hand stretch my canvases so I am not familiar with the stretching machines out there.

As for linen tape: I never ever use that for hinging art/photos. It sounds like you are using pressure sensitive tape, which in the end, will fail.
I hinge using water activated tapes, or use Japanese hinges with wheat paste

 

[wpfay]

I would check with Fletcher about their support for the 8460. I don't know the machine, but if any of the blades are proprietary, support from the primary source is essential. There may be some after market support.

If I had your choice, I would try both of the 48" mat cutters and see which suites my needs. I'm not familiar with either, though I have 9 at cutters (most predate those).
Hi, I'm Wally and I have a mat cutter hording problem.

Like Ylva, I stretch by hand. Don't have the volume to justify a mechanical stretcher.

I agree with Ylva about using linen tape (either gum or pressure) on fine art. Hint; it's not the linen necessarily, it's the adhesive.

As the artist, you can do whatever you want to your art, and that's OK as long as you are consistent. Hinge with whatever, dry mount, face mount, etc. Framers don't have those choices.

 

[Nikodeumus]

I use the Fletcher 2100 mat cutter.
It's been used by the business I work at for at over 15+ years and still works like a champ.
Haven't had to replace any major components in all that time.

Also have the Fletcher 3100 63" multi material cutter.
Same as above. Been used a long time, never any problems.

Both of my machines could use some TLC, replace some wearing down bearings etc.

Fletcher blades, acrylic scorers and glass wheels are easily sourced from most major frame suppliers.
For the purposes you are considering (low volume framing) the Fletcher products would last you a lifetime.

I also hand stretch canvas, and also don't do enough volume (or have workspace) to justify a fancy machine.
If you already have the machine, you might as well learn how to use it.

If you haven't found it already, here is a great resource for all kinds of product manuals related to picture framing:

Framing Equipment Manuals Library

A library with 411 picture framing equipment manuals, courtesy of the Picture Framers Grumble forum. This resource will be periodically updated, as new manuals are added. Many companies are out of business, but their equipment keeps going...

www.thegrumble.com

You might find your canvas machine manual there?

 

[Shayla]

Hi, John. Welcome to the G! It's a bit of work, but I'd encourage you to set up the mat cutters and use them, before deciding which ones to keep.

 

[JohnOConnell]

Thank you everyone for the responses and warm welcome.

I might have a problem. I have bought out another shop since I posted that message :O Is there a Framers Annonymous board on this forum, haha?!

To clarify, the stretcher is really just a huge clamp. It has a long slot with a hacksaw blade in it to hold the end of the canvas while you pull it tight and fasten it. Similar to a Joinrite but with some substantial differences. The hacksaw blade can pierce the canvas and it doesn't have the dohickeys that full the stretcher frame tight. You have to do it yourself with leverage.
I'm just not sure if it's worth saving $20 per canvas print to order them loose and stretch myself versus ordering them drop-shipped from the printer to the customer already mounted. I'll try it a few times and see how it goes.

This is the stretcher mounted to a cabinet with a mere fraction of the mat board.


This new purchase included yet another mat cutter. I think I'll do as suggested: set them all up and see which one works best for me. I've now rented a large storage unit to move this stuff into while I sort through it and try to figure out how to set it up in a 150-square-foot office (where I also have to leave room for my wife's work desk). So I can lay them all out and do some test mats in the storage space. I have already chosen to donate one of them to a local grade school art teacher who said she had a use for it.

The 8460 material cutter is no longer supported by F-T. It's missing the right-side support arm, so I'll try to fabricate something. I have read that the pillar posts wear out, so I'll plan to use it until that happens. They said I can get new glass and acrylic cutters but no posts.

With the hinging, I will certainly look into those other methods/materials. This was a good option for starting out. We used masking tape when I was in school, and I considered just using acid-free RTK around the edges, so I figured that this was an improvement. I sell most of my work matted, not framed, so I wanted a non-permanent solution that people could swap out as needed. They are all easily replaceable prints and not fine art by any means. I don't think of myself that highly, lol. But it would be worthwhile to read up on the water-activated and Japanese papers.

On the subject of matting, I also just obtained a table-top Print Mount Company vacuum press. It looks like maybe 60" wide but I haven't measured or tested it out yet. I don't know if it's cold or hot yet, but I'm thinking just cold. If it works, that will open up new mounting options that I hadn't even considered. Then some other tools that I don't even know what they are yet. This is nuts for a guy who was just wanting to mat some of his photos, but sometimes you just have to ride the wave

Thank you again for all of the help. I feel like this becoming a lost trade (no offense intended) and I'm eager to keep it going at least in my area. It's sad when oral history and handed-down knowledge are lost due to apathy, imports, and big-box stores.

 

[Keith L Hewitt]

Those mat boards frighten me😭
With that permanent curl they will be a PITA
Jst saying - All mat boards should always be stored flat,
Now I know some "expert" framers will jump on me, and say they store theirs vertical,, and always have done.
Your picture clearly demonstrates what can happen when stored vertically.

 

[alacrity8]

Those mat boards frighten me😭
With that permanent curl they will be a PITA
Jst saying - All mat boards should always be stored flat,
Now I know some "expert" framers will jump on me, and say they store theirs vertical,, and always have done.
Your picture clearly demonstrates what can happen when stored vertically.

Those matboards scare me a bit as well, and I store vertically.
Vertically can be done (mostly) flat, and horizontally can be stored non flat.
How does one store mat offcuts, horizontally, flat, and in a usable fashion?
Our slots for vertical mat storage are about 2" wide (about the same thickness as a box of 25 mats).

 

[alacrity8]

Thank you everyone for the responses and warm welcome.

I might have a problem. I have bought out another shop since I posted that message :O Is there a Framers Annonymous board on this forum, haha?!

I used to have this problem.
I've bought the contents of 3-4 closed home framers, and small frame shops.
The last few years, all of the local frame shops that have retired have done so silently, and not listed their equipment for sale.
I'm not sure what it is, but we've had about 5 frame shops retire in the last 5 years.
We have one closing, in the next few weeks, in the town over.
We've had a few new openings, and store purchases as well.
Half of the new Frame Shop Owners all worked at the same small chain Frame Shop (Frame of Mind), and are in there 40s.
I started out with the contents of the last Frame of Mind 11 years ago.

We bought a Tensador II stretching machine a few years back.
Mostly for use with one customer (who had us stretch about 50 canvases over a 6 month period, and then has not come back since we acquired the machine).
It works well if you have about 2" more material all around than are needed for the stretch.
None of our customers ever bring in a canvas with more than 1/2" extra.
The Tensador has a clamp with foam pads to hold the canvas, not a saw blade.

The big cost difference to consider on stretching canvas is shipping.
Shipping a stretched canvas costs much more than a rolled canvas.
$20 for the time and stretcher bar seems easily worth it to avoid doing it yourself.

Our primary non-CMC mat cutter is a 48" C&H Advantage.
I've been using it for more than 20 years, and it is probably at least a decade older than that.
It's a great machine.
I have no experience with the other mat cutters, but Fletcher makes some really good products.

To clarify, the stretcher is really just a huge clamp. It has a long slot with a hacksaw blade in it to hold the end of the canvas while you pull it tight and fasten it. Similar to a Joinrite but with some substantial differences. The hacksaw blade can pierce the canvas and it doesn't have the dohickeys that full the stretcher frame tight. You have to do it yourself with leverage.
I'm just not sure if it's worth saving $20 per canvas print to order them loose and stretch myself versus ordering them drop-shipped from the printer to the customer already mounted. I'll try it a few times and see how it goes.
View attachment 44363
This is the stretcher mounted to a cabinet with a mere fraction of the mat board.
View attachment 44364

This new purchase included yet another mat cutter. I think I'll do as suggested: set them all up and see which one works best for me. I've now rented a large storage unit to move this stuff into while I sort through it and try to figure out how to set it up in a 150-square-foot office (where I also have to leave room for my wife's work desk). So I can lay them all out and do some test mats in the storage space. I have already chosen to donate one of them to a local grade school art teacher who said she had a use for it.

The 8460 material cutter is no longer supported by F-T. It's missing the right-side support arm, so I'll try to fabricate something. I have read that the pillar posts wear out, so I'll plan to use it until that happens. They said I can get new glass and acrylic cutters but no posts.

With the hinging, I will certainly look into those other methods/materials. This was a good option for starting out. We used masking tape when I was in school, and I considered just using acid-free RTK around the edges, so I figured that this was an improvement. I sell most of my work matted, not framed, so I wanted a non-permanent solution that people could swap out as needed. They are all easily replaceable prints and not fine art by any means. I don't think of myself that highly, lol. But it would be worthwhile to read up on the water-activated and Japanese papers.

On the subject of matting, I also just obtained a table-top Print Mount Company vacuum press. It looks like maybe 60" wide but I haven't measured or tested it out yet. I don't know if it's cold or hot yet, but I'm thinking just cold. If it works, that will open up new mounting options that I hadn't even considered. Then some other tools that I don't even know what they are yet. This is nuts for a guy who was just wanting to mat some of his photos, but sometimes you just have to ride the wave

Thank you again for all of the help. I feel like this becoming a lost trade (no offense intended) and I'm eager to keep it going at least in my area. It's sad when oral history and handed-down knowledge are lost due to apathy, imports, and big-box stores.

 

[Shayla]

We store our mats vertically, but there are full-size support partitions (made of thin wood), every four to six inches, in our mat storage. If your new press was heated, I'd suggest running any mat you use through it, to dry it out a bit. But, cold would take a long time to make any difference. And if it's not a heat press, I'd be super careful about using it. I once worked at a shop with a cold press, and that meant spray. I stopped using spray umpteen years ago, because it's bad for the art and can cause nervous system damage.

Let's see....what else. Oh, yes. You mentioned the debate of whether to stretch canvas photos yourself, or have folks order them pre-stretched. If ordering them pre-stretched is something new, you might want to order one for yourself, first, to see what it's like. And if it's already something your customers do, hopefully, you've ordered one, already. With any stretched canvas, it's important that the stretcher be sturdy enough, and/or with sufficient bracing, to be the same across the middle as it is on the ends. If it's not, (which usually means the middle is narrower), that can potentially cause problems. If the stretchers are deep and the photos are gallery-wrapped, then customers probably hang as is, and might not care about any size differences. But, if anyone ever wants to add a float frame, if the stretcher is either out of square or varies in width, it won't work. In that case, the only thing that works is using a frame with a rabbet wide enough to cover the problem. This is accomplished by either 1) choosing a frame with a wide rabbet, 2) choosing a wide enough frame that it can be ripped out to widen the rabbet or 3) adding a fillet.

Depending on your business model and customer preferences, paying attention to these things can either be great, or overkill. You know your customer base and interests, so feel free to take what's useful here, and tailor it to your needs. The main thing is, it's a good idea to protect well enough that what they buy won't fall apart, warp or fade too quickly. And, although it's not a good idea for art to be subjected to extremes of temp, if you ship art, it will be. So, you'll want to avoid using materials, like certain pressure sensitive tapes, or double-sided tapes, etc... that could melt/freeze and fail if subjected to extremes during transport.

 

[Bob Carter]

Been in many distributors over the years and i've never seen individual mats stored horizontally
imagine that would be a logistical nightmare to identify and pull. All of our bins were similar to Shayla's with 1/4 dividers spaced 4-6inches apart

 

[GHMart555]

Hi! I'm John, a nature photographer in Southern Illinois. With framing options dwindling in my local area, I have decided to start doing some matting and framing myself. I enjoyed doing it in middle school in the 90s and so far have been enjoying getting back into it. It just hits differently delivering a hand-framed piece than delivering a print in an envelope.

I have gone a little nuts on Facebook Marketplace, buying up small home-run framing shops that have been closing because the owners have aged out of it (their words, not mine). Seems like no young people want to carry on the trade. I think that I have received a good value for what I paid on the lots. I spent $1600 for all of the major equipment and about 500 mat boards, 100 pieces of glass, 200+ stretcher frames, dozens of picture frames in various conditions (some new, some with ahem "character"), hundreds of hardware pieces, and some other assorted smaller tools. But now I have some redundant equipment (multiple mat cutters), some equipment I don't understand, and some equipment that may be obsolete.

I'm hoping to make the most of what I have, even if there are some newer and better electronic versions. I'm fond of working with my hands despite my day job involving tons of computer work. I don't currently plan to do a ton of framing as a venture. Moreso preparing my own pieces for sales, shows, etc, and helping out some other local artists who are looking to get stuff done in short order. So wear should be relatively light.

Here's a laundry list of items with associated questions. I'm sure I'll come up with more when I get further into it. Any advice is greatly appreciated!

Mat cutters:
I now own a Fletcher 2100 48", a Keencut Ultimat purple 48", a CH 4800A, a Logan simplex elite 60", a Logan compact mat cutter ~30", and Logan Team system rules (24" and 40"). As far as I can tell, they all come with all of the typical parts. Keencut and CH came with a bunch of blades. I plan to keep one of the 48" cutters, the 60" cutter just for any large projects, and I see no point in selling the Team system because they aren't really worth much. Which of the 48" mat cutters would you keep and why? Preferably if you have experience with several of them. Are parts especially hard to come by for any of them? Are there any things that I should inspect before I decide? I have put the CH into service and it is serviceable, but beat up and requires a lot of eyeballing. Parts are also very hard to come by. For those reasons, I'm most likely debating between the Fletcher and Keencut, both of which appear to be in very good shape.

Material cutter:
I got a Fletcher 8460 60" wall-mount material cutter. I mainly intend to use this for glass. It came with a bunch of mat blades, a pack of PVC blades, and a pack of glass cutters. When I started digging through the forum here, I got confused about different columns for different materials and I also read a lot of concerns about the unit wearing out. What should I know about this unit before I bolt it to my wall and put it into service? Is it still useful kit?

Canvas Stretcher:
I got a 48" RC Machining EZ stretch. I usually order my photo canvases already on frames and don't do other art forms. I'm wondering if it's worthwhile to start ordering loose canvas prints to stretch myself or if that's not longer time/cost-effective. It looks like I could save about 20-40% on canvases by stretching them myself, but time is also money. Also, I can't find any materials on how to use it. Any input or advice? Is this device still useful for me? If not, is it valuable on the used market? It looks like a very well-made piece of equipment and I've seen high prices for them circa 10-20 years ago, but I don't know if they are worth anything now.

Linen Hinging tape dispenser:
No, I don't have one or buy one in these lots. I don't even know if they exist. But while I'm asking questions, I wanted to see if anyone has ever built a dispenser for the Lineco linen hinging tape rolls. That's currently my mounting method of choice, which might change with time and experience, but I'm tired of trying to pull the tape and backing off the roll and then cut it, as cool as the flap ion the bottom of the box is. I'd love to put a roll in something like a big office tape dispenser and then pull the backing and tape to separate and then cut on an edge like one of those dispensers. Maybe it's something I'll DIY. Or maybe I'm missing something here.

Thank you for your input and advice! I'm excited to dive deeper into this field!

Hi! I'm John, a nature photographer in Southern Illinois. With framing options dwindling in my local area, I have decided to start doing some matting and framing myself. I enjoyed doing it in middle school in the 90s and so far have been enjoying getting back into it. It just hits differently delivering a hand-framed piece than delivering a print in an envelope.

I have gone a little nuts on Facebook Marketplace, buying up small home-run framing shops that have been closing because the owners have aged out of it (their words, not mine). Seems like no young people want to carry on the trade. I think that I have received a good value for what I paid on the lots. I spent $1600 for all of the major equipment and about 500 mat boards, 100 pieces of glass, 200+ stretcher frames, dozens of picture frames in various conditions (some new, some with ahem "character"), hundreds of hardware pieces, and some other assorted smaller tools. But now I have some redundant equipment (multiple mat cutters), some equipment I don't understand, and some equipment that may be obsolete.

I'm hoping to make the most of what I have, even if there are some newer and better electronic versions. I'm fond of working with my hands despite my day job involving tons of computer work. I don't currently plan to do a ton of framing as a venture. Moreso preparing my own pieces for sales, shows, etc, and helping out some other local artists who are looking to get stuff done in short order. So wear should be relatively light.

Here's a laundry list of items with associated questions. I'm sure I'll come up with more when I get further into it. Any advice is greatly appreciated!

Mat cutters:
I now own a Fletcher 2100 48", a Keencut Ultimat purple 48", a CH 4800A, a Logan simplex elite 60", a Logan compact mat cutter ~30", and Logan Team system rules (24" and 40"). As far as I can tell, they all come with all of the typical parts. Keencut and CH came with a bunch of blades. I plan to keep one of the 48" cutters, the 60" cutter just for any large projects, and I see no point in selling the Team system because they aren't really worth much. Which of the 48" mat cutters would you keep and why? Preferably if you have experience with several of them. Are parts especially hard to come by for any of them? Are there any things that I should inspect before I decide? I have put the CH into service and it is serviceable, but beat up and requires a lot of eyeballing. Parts are also very hard to come by. For those reasons, I'm most likely debating between the Fletcher and Keencut, both of which appear to be in very good shape.

Material cutter:
I got a Fletcher 8460 60" wall-mount material cutter. I mainly intend to use this for glass. It came with a bunch of mat blades, a pack of PVC blades, and a pack of glass cutters. When I started digging through the forum here, I got confused about different columns for different materials and I also read a lot of concerns about the unit wearing out. What should I know about this unit before I bolt it to my wall and put it into service? Is it still useful kit?

Canvas Stretcher:
I got a 48" RC Machining EZ stretch. I usually order my photo canvases already on frames and don't do other art forms. I'm wondering if it's worthwhile to start ordering loose canvas prints to stretch myself or if that's not longer time/cost-effective. It looks like I could save about 20-40% on canvases by stretching them myself, but time is also money. Also, I can't find any materials on how to use it. Any input or advice? Is this device still useful for me? If not, is it valuable on the used market? It looks like a very well-made piece of equipment and I've seen high prices for them circa 10-20 years ago, but I don't know if they are worth anything now.

Linen Hinging tape dispenser:
No, I don't have one or buy one in these lots. I don't even know if they exist. But while I'm asking questions, I wanted to see if anyone has ever built a dispenser for the Lineco linen hinging tape rolls. That's currently my mounting method of choice, which might change with time and experience, but I'm tired of trying to pull the tape and backing off the roll and then cut it, as cool as the flap on the bottom of the box is. I'd love to put a roll in something like a big office tape dispenser and then pull the backing and tape to separate and then cut on an edge like one of those dispensers. Maybe it's something I'll DIY. Or maybe I'm missing something here.

Thank you for your input and advice! I'm excited to dive deeper into this field!

I have a Fletcher wall-mount glass cutter for over 40 years, the only thing I ever had right do was change out the glasscutter every few months. These things are bullet proof!

GHM

 

[Larry Peterson]

Keith can come and yell at me as well. Here is my mat storage:

This rack has been storing mats for 15+ years. One thing I always do after cutting a mat, whether it be a single or double mat, is to place it under glass and weights for at least 24 hours. I do this primarily to make sure that the ATG between the mats has a good bond but if the mat is a little curled, this will help with it. I can't imagine storing mats horizontally. Pulling out a mat that is 20th in a stack of 57 will cause wear on the mats. Plus looking through the mats will cause wear and possible creasing of the above mats. Not for me. I will stick with what I have. Sorry Keith.

On the positive side, I have never had someone come back and tell me their mats are curled. And since my customers put their own items in the frame after I ship it to them, they would see it .

 

[Ylva]

Yeah, my storage for mat boards look very similar to Larry's. Since I usually glue the mat to back board, it has not been a problem. I have a few smaller dividers, especially for my more expensive mats.
Can't imagine storing horizontally with the many mats I have. It would take up too much space and I don't know how I would pull the one on the bottom out with mats right on top of them.

 

[wpfay]

Manufacturers, and some distributors, will store them flat to keep them flat. That works when you have racking systems designed to hold multiple boxes of the same mat. It would be impractical at the retail level with a few number of many different mats.
I have vertical storage, and each slot holds two boxes of mats.
I also stock 40" X 60", 48" X 96", and some of the 60" X 106" from Rising. Horizontal storage of those is pretty much impossible.

 

[Rick Granick]

My mat storage can be seen in this photo. The boards rest on their 40" side. The masonite dividers are 4" apart, which helps a little with curling (except for matboard that comes in "pre-curled for my convenience"). I also have more storage for smaller-than-full sheets, with dividers 7" apart.
Rick

 

[JohnOConnell]

Thanks again for so much feedback. Seems that I really started a discussion with my hastily-posted picture. Sorry that I took so long to reply, but I've been moving mat board and building storage with any spare time.

To be clear, I wasn't intending to leave boards like that and it was just temporary while I was sorting them out. I have since blown that whole table up and built a new one using some of your suggestions. I got a pile of slatwall board from the local Bed Bath Beyond that was getting gutted out. It has 1/4" slots in it, so it was much easier than routing or using a dado a bunch of times. I have about 25-30 full-sized panels of assorted masonite, ply, paneling, etc to slide in the grooves and create smaller, less wonky piles of mat board. At most, it will be 6" gaps (every other) but I might just go with 3" gaps to be sure. Also, as I'm sorting out full sheets, I'm laying them atop each other on the floor. The weight of a pile of mat boards is impressive and it seems to be doing a great job pressing them flat.

On the subject of the new table, it's not quite done, but everything above the 2x8s is floating so that I can remove it to access the vacuum press located on the lower shelf. I really can't find anywhere else to put it. It will take 5 minutes to get to it, but if I find that I'm using it a ton, I'll modify the table with a hinge and lifts. The press might also come in handy for ATG and for flattening boards as suggested. I realize that the far right and far left ends won't be easily useable for full sheets, but I plan to put off-cuts, glass, or other supplies there.

I was sad to do it, but I sold the Moreso miter chopper and the Might Mite underpinner that I obtained with the latest shop purchase. It had apparently been promised to someone else and the seller forgot. The other guy was very sad when he found out. He called and offered to pay me what I paid for everything just to take those 2 tools. The Moreso didn't have a scratch or fleck of rust on it, so I was sad, but it helped me justify this impulsive purchase with my wife. Remember, this is borderline hobby level for me. The guy also owns a full-scale printing shop in town, so he's likely a good guy to befriend, and he agreed to two other terms: 1) let me use those 2 tools in his shop if I ever want, 2) sell them back to me if he decides he doesn't want them.

The woman who sold me the canvas stretcher has already sent me 2 canvas stretching jobs and a couple of friends of mine are very interested in stretching canvases for their artwork, so I'm going to hold onto it for now and decide sometime down the road. I might also go ahead and order a canvas print of my work just for fun. The printer that I use includes 2" extra on all sides.

 

[JohnOConnell]

I also got the glass cutter mounted. I'll only have about 4' clearance on each side, but I doubt I'll be cutting larger than that too often. I wish it was mounted higher because I'm tall, but the space is what the space is. I was also able to find pillar posts on the F-T site and ordered some spares so that I'm covered for a long time.

 

[Ylva]

Is there no right arm on this one? Or just because you can't fit it into the space?

It wouldn't work for me, unless I would store every size of glass available. I only stock 32x40 and 40x60
I would not be able to comfortably cut an 8x10 size glass in this set up.

Thanks for the follow up, can't wait to see the full space in action

 

[JohnOConnell]

Is there no right arm on this one? Or just because you can't fit it into the space?

It wouldn't work for me, unless I would store every size of glass available. I only stock 32x40 and 40x60
I would not be able to comfortably cut an 8x10 size glass in this set up.

Thanks for the follow up, can't wait to see the full space in action

The right arm was missing when I bought it. I checked the barn where I bought it this past weekend and it's not there. It seems looking online that many of them are missing the right arm. I'm going to fabricate one.

I have a kneeling pad, lol. Going to be needing that for those 8x10s. Luckily, I have a massive supply of precut standard sizes now, new in the boxes, so hopefully I don't need to cut often for a while. I only have one large sheet like you said that you stock and I'll have to just cut that old school. Not ideal, but it was this or tear out the basement jungle gym that I build for my 3-year-old and that's not happening.

 

[Ylva]

Hahahaha, no, you can't do that to your 3-year old and now I want to see a picture of the jungle gym!!!! (pretty please)

 

[JohnOConnell]

Currently in disarray as I move this stuff in, but here you go. Most materials were repurposed scraps to reduce waste, including the mattresses.

 

[Nikodeumus]

FUN! Can we all come over to play?

That reminds me of when I was a kid.
My siblings and I would pulled a mattress off one of our beds, and pushed it to the bottom of the stairs.
Then we would take turns jumping down the stairs onto the mattress.
I was the youngest of 4 kids. At the time it seemed like we were jumping down a giant well.
I am sure it was probably actually only from 6 to 8 steps at most.
Still wonderful memories I won't ever forget.
Your little one will remember having the best basement ever!

Oh, p.s.
Our parents were not pleased with our adventures because we couldn't get the mattress back up the stairs without their help.🤣

 

[alacrity8]

Hahahaha, no, you can't do that to your 3-year old and now I want to see a picture of the jungle gym!!!! (pretty please)

I second the request for basement jungle gym pictures.
We've converted half the basement for the tortoises, and when we get the heating up to snuff, they can move into their more spacious home.

 

[alacrity8]

FUN! Can we all come over to play?

That reminds me of when I was a kid.
My siblings and I would pulled a mattress off one of our beds, and pushed it to the bottom of the stairs.
Then we would take turns jumping down the stairs onto the mattress.
I was the youngest of 4 kids. At the time it seemed like we were jumping down a giant well.
I am sure it was probably actually only from 6 to 8 steps at most.
Still wonderful memories I won't ever forget.
Your little one will remember having the best basement ever!

Oh, p.s.
Our parents were not pleased with our adventures because we couldn't get the mattress back up the stairs without their help.🤣

Your parents should have invested in some ropes and pulleys.

 

[JohnOConnell]

Thanks folks! We moved from an 800 sq foot house to a house with a 1000 sq ft unfinished basement and I knew immediately that it had to have a slide and some things to climb on. Normally, I prefer her to climb trees and rocks in the outdoors, but winter is meh. We were lucky to find a ton of free foam and mattresses from a local dealer to make it less unsafe. Mom insisted on the padding at the bottom of the slide. I didn't think it was necessary. Mom was right. Our girl definitely makes use of the padding! I also had to drop the slide a bit because I originally made it parallel to the stairs and it was scary. Ha!

 

[Ylva]

John, that is awesome!!!!! Great play space for a kid. I am with mom on the padding. Kids are fearless, they don't see danger at all
Our kids were always outdoor kids as well, but it was hard in winter when their playground was snowed in or frozen over. Great to have an indoor space like that!

 

[Nikodeumus]

Kids are fearless, they don't see danger at all

I was one of those kids.
I found so many ways to injure myself. 🤕
Goodtimes!!
Wouldn't trade my (mis)adventures for anything.
I'm sure my parents would like at least some of the many hours spent sitting in ER rooms back.
They somehow managed to keep me alive long enough to get out of their house.
Then I became my own problem 🤪

 

[Keith L Hewitt]

OK OK I can see I'm on my own regarding mat storage.
Larry Peterson wrote come and shout at me
Bob Carter wrote Been in many distributors over the years and i've never seen individual mats stored horizontally
Must be the difference between USA /Canada and Europe
Most distributors over here store them horizontally, They have to, as they are paper wrapped
ALL manufactures store them horizontally and ship them horizontally
My company Arctic Paper MUNKEN brand is offered in Cartons, the only European mat board mfg. to offer cartons
Regarding storage at the frame shop - agree vertically is the norm. But you need to keep the spaces well stocked to avoid the inevitable curl, when too few boards are in the gap.

 

[Ylva]

I have no doubt that manufacturers here store it horizontally as well.

However, for any frame shop, with maybe a few colors stocked in larger quantities, this is simply not an option. I have certain colors where I only have 1-2 sheets and I keep most usable cut-offs as well. I have hundreds of matboards, divided over 14 slots. My slots are actually wider, and are not packed tight. I store them slightly leaning, with a harder backboard at the end to support them. There is enough space to take them out without scratching them and the curl is minimal.

I can deal with a curl. I can't deal with a scratch.

 

[Framerguy1]

I hesitated to respond to your original message as I might accidentally expose some of the "mistakes" I may have made getting started in the gallery/framing business back in the last century. I am now officially retired from back in 2008 and can enjoy my "Golden Years" as advertised! [I'd like to find the guy who said to me, "Just wait 'till you hit your "Golden Years" and can enjoy yourself"??] I am STILL looking for those Golden Years and wondering if all of this pain and agony of growing old is worth the wait?? Were I to do anything over in my life, it would probably be to enjoy all of those things I did enjoy and simply skip those things in which I found no joy at all.

I built all of my frame shop tables and benches to fit my needs and one thing I can tell you that made me want to do the vertical storage of all my matboards is this: you can always store your mats together just enough to fill each slot without having the boards "bow" from too much space between them. As your inventory increases, you can then arrange the boards to "fit as needed" in additional slots if you space all of the spacing at 4" or there abouts. Actually, it also works for a 6" spacing only with more boards per slot than with a smaller spacing, but that is up to the "spacer" aka, ... you! Oops, I had a moment where I "spaced" out, sorry.

I had a writer from the Art Business News in St. Louis, MO visit my gallery in So. IL waaay back when I was starting out and she wrote a couple of pages about all of my tables and storage integration in each one with a series of good clear photos of each table to show the reader what was being discussed. I still have a copy or 3 of that issue but they are packed away, and I have no clue about which issue in which they were featured. Maybe Wally can help me out here as he bought my converted metal map file which I built an oak box and mounted all of the flat drawer guides into and used it to store my prints and canvases. As time progressed and I had less need of such a large file to keep my prints after I moved to Florida in 2000, he made a road trip over to my gallery and had seen all of my tables and benches.

I can also vouch for your wanting to keep the Fletcher wall mounted glass cutter. That proved to be invaluable in my operation for not only sizing of glass but also for dimensional sizing of 40X60 matboards and also A/F foam core which I bought in case lots and sized as needed. I hope you have enough space on both ends of your mounting to fit such needs as they arise. Maybe by that time you will have opened your own shop in a larger area and can fit things in with more space to mount, handle, and work around all of your equipment.

Regarding canvas stretching, I stretched many canvases for my clients, and I found a certain "comfort" in the process of had stretching, as all of the parts had to come together for form a perfectly square evenly stretched product, and I hand stretched each one of them myself. I used a pair of canvas stretching pliers and. starting in the middle of each side, I would stretch them all around progressively toward each end and they always came out square and proper for me.

Since I have opened my own personal "can of worms" in how I did things and what equipment I used to do them, let me put in a plug for the C&H Advantage manual mat cutter. I had a 48" cutter with the added mat stops for consistent dimensioning of mats and it was a rock-solid no fail piece of equipment for the almost 20 years I used it in my frame shops. It was so consistent in its accuracy that I hardly had to tweak anything as I changed blades or settings for matting of multiple groups of mats for an artist or professional photographer. I used it to cut V-grooves in mats and it never varied in dimensions or consistency. It is one of a few pieces of equipment which I still own even though I was effectively out of the framing business after Hurricane Ivan hit our coastal town in 2003 and tore a portion of my roof off business site. I came back and worked for a high-end gallery in Destin, FL for a few years but, when the 2008 economy took a large "dip", and I was laid off from the gallery, I decided it was time I retired and started looking for those mythical "Golden Years". Ugh!!

 

[wpfay]

Well, Tom (AKA Framerguy 1), you were never inclined to do things the easy way. lol.
Sorry, I don't remember the article, but the flat cabinet is till serving its purpose.
When I saw the OP was from Southern Ill., I wondered if you would pop up.

 

[Framerguy1]

Well, Tom (AKA Framerguy 1), you were never inclined to do things the easy way. lol.
Sorry, I don't remember the article, but the flat cabinet is till serving its purpose.
When I saw the OP was from Southern Ill., I wondered if you would pop up.

Well Wally, I hate to admit it, but I have pretty much mellowed out since those days. I am glad to hear that the flat file didn't fall apart by now, you would have expected that, when I used Framer's tape to hold those oak face boards onto the front of the metal drawers, the tape would have failed by now. Huh, .... stranger things have happened in the wild world of picture framing, I suppose.

 

[Huckleberry]

Been in many distributors over the years and i've never seen individual mats stored horizontally
imagine that would be a logistical nightmare to identify and pull. All of our bins were similar to Shayla's with 1/4 dividers spaced 4-6inches apart

I agree! The key is the right spacing between (mine are 5" apart) with a smooth, sanded, coated 1/4" wooden dividers for smooth removal. How does mat stored horizontally not have rub marks and scuffs?
I had the local fire marshal show up, telling me I had too much "cardboard" and then went on to explain fire science concerning flammable material stored vertically vs. horizontally. I just couldn't educate him about the NOT cardboard, although I may test a piece of mat board to see how flammable it really is.

 

[wpfay]

Well, technically, they are cardboard, just not corrugated cardboard.

Vertical shelving allows for more air between sheets, and that means more available oxygen, and once a fire gets going it has a chimney effect, sucking more air into the fire.

 

[JohnOConnell]

Thanks again everyone for the feedback. I have made great progress and am nearly done sorting out the matboard. The slots are all well stocked (a few might be too well stocked) and curling is no longer a substantial issue. I messed up and got 1/8" paneling for dividers, so I've had to double some up. I've also subdivided some of the 6" slots into 3" slots since there were additional grooves in the slatboard that I used for the frame. I'll try to post some pictures soon.

I have been cutting all of the smaller off-cuts into "standard" sizes to help with organization. Basically, so that I can make clean stacks. I'll stack those piles horizontally on some other shelving that I have freed up in my basement. In doing so, I've been using the Fletcher a ton. I think that for individual cutting of mat dropouts, I'll end up preferring the Keen, but the roller wheel on the Fletcher has been great to reduce fatigue while cutting over 100 pieces in an afternoon.

After I get that sorted, I will likely invite some artist friends to rummage through what I have. It's about 10' solid of full sheets and then another few hundred cut pieces. I will never use all of it, so hopefully they can make use of it.

Then it's time to start moving glass and odds and ends. It will feel really nice to have this all set up and ready to go by the end of the month.

 

[JohnOConnell]

I hesitated to respond to your original message as I might accidentally expose some of the "mistakes" I may have made getting started in the gallery/framing business back in the last century. I am now officially retired from back in 2008 and can enjoy my "Golden Years" as advertised! [I'd like to find the guy who said to me, "Just wait 'till you hit your "Golden Years" and can enjoy yourself"??] I am STILL looking for those Golden Years and wondering if all of this pain and agony of growing old is worth the wait?? Were I to do anything over in my life, it would probably be to enjoy all of those things I did enjoy and simply skip those things in which I found no joy at all.
...

Thanks for all of the information and the stories. Makes me more excited about the hobby. Where were you in So Ill? I am currently setting this up in Makanda after buying out the shop in Carbondale. I'm a grad student at SIU for my "day job".

On the C&H, I have really enjoyed using it and it was going to be hard to part with. Luckily, I actually ended up with 2: a 48" and a 60". I'm not 100% certain that the 60" is a bona fide C&H, but it has nearly identical parts. I ended up taking both completely apart and selecting the best parts from each to build one 60" Frankenstein's mat cutter that I'll keep and then put all of the other parts on the 48" to sell. So, for now, I'll have the 60" CH, the 48" Keen, and the 48" Fletcher. I'll eventually sell another one of the 48" models. I also have a bunch of add-ons for the CH like the production stops and guides, v-groove cutter, and a clamp-on compass.