Does anyone have info & experience on framing for the interior decorators in your area? How can I get their business, what kind of discount or fee would be acceptable to both your business and theirs.? I hate seeing them buy preframed art from out of town suppliers, when they could buy from our store. (or, do I really want their business?) Thx. Suz.
interior decorators business
- Thread starter suzy
- Start date
C
curly
Guest
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by suzy:
Does anyone have info & experience on framing for the interior decorators in your area? How can I get their business, what kind of discount or fee would be acceptable to both your business and theirs.? I hate seeing them buy preframed art from out of town suppliers, when they could buy from our store. (or, do I really want their business?) Thx. Suz.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Suz-
I offer a discount (20%) to decorators, BUT they have to qualify first.
1) Business Card
2) Sales Tax number
3) $1500 in business with me before they get discount.
Bottom line is most of the decorators I've dealt with aren't very loyal, don't have very good taste and you can't trust them as far as you can throw them. As a matter of fact I put together a great package of antique botanical prints. They were french matted and in gold frames. Beautiful. Wholesale price $105. each. Suggested retail $225. (I've seen decorators blow them out at this price and more.) One particular decorator (In the fanciest showroom in town) sold all of ones I sold them and then started buying repro's out of N.C. that they can buy cheaper and sell for the same money. When I asked them why they didn't sell my original 18th century prints instead of the repro's, they shrugged and told me their clients didn't know the difference and they made a little more money on each one. Go figure. And keep smiling.
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curlyframer, CPF
Does anyone have info & experience on framing for the interior decorators in your area? How can I get their business, what kind of discount or fee would be acceptable to both your business and theirs.? I hate seeing them buy preframed art from out of town suppliers, when they could buy from our store. (or, do I really want their business?) Thx. Suz.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Suz-
I offer a discount (20%) to decorators, BUT they have to qualify first.
1) Business Card
2) Sales Tax number
3) $1500 in business with me before they get discount.
Bottom line is most of the decorators I've dealt with aren't very loyal, don't have very good taste and you can't trust them as far as you can throw them. As a matter of fact I put together a great package of antique botanical prints. They were french matted and in gold frames. Beautiful. Wholesale price $105. each. Suggested retail $225. (I've seen decorators blow them out at this price and more.) One particular decorator (In the fanciest showroom in town) sold all of ones I sold them and then started buying repro's out of N.C. that they can buy cheaper and sell for the same money. When I asked them why they didn't sell my original 18th century prints instead of the repro's, they shrugged and told me their clients didn't know the difference and they made a little more money on each one. Go figure. And keep smiling.
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curlyframer, CPF
S
silpic
Guest
wow do i agree with curly. interior designers can be horrible to work with. i like the way curly has dealt with them. to qualify them is a great idea. i just took jay goltzs' pricing seminar at the past show in las vegas. he made a point to say he has no deep discounts for designers.
i have found in past experiences with id to not be loyal no matter how good you are to them. they seem to expect wholesale pricing from retailers like ourselves.
i have loaned out print books ,mat and frame samples only to have them go elsewhere to do the work.
not all id are ruthless. i actually have always wanted to become certified thinking it would be an asset to my services as i do in home consults.
these are just my thoughts and experiences.it seems the older i get, the less i will except being treated like dirt.
grumble grumble grumble
beth
i have found in past experiences with id to not be loyal no matter how good you are to them. they seem to expect wholesale pricing from retailers like ourselves.
i have loaned out print books ,mat and frame samples only to have them go elsewhere to do the work.
not all id are ruthless. i actually have always wanted to become certified thinking it would be an asset to my services as i do in home consults.
these are just my thoughts and experiences.it seems the older i get, the less i will except being treated like dirt.
grumble grumble grumble
beth
A
Audrey
Guest
CURLY, you're my hero. *grin* I like your style with the Dreaded Interior Desecrators.
They have no taste, loyalty, or style, and the ones I've dealt with all have this condescending attitude, like they know more than I do about my job. We have one particular Dragon Lady who was once given a 15% discount on a large order for one of her clients, and she now refuses to leave the store until she gets it on everything, even on personal stuff. (And she brings us things to "revamp" that she bought elsewhere, and expects us to be happy about it. AND get a discount on it.)
Interior decorators, in my experience, can be good clients, but no more so than other private clients, and I don't see much of a point in giving them the red-carpet treatment. We have clients who drop far more than they do for their own homes, and they don't ask for a discount.
Bottom line: handle them with gloves and follow Curly's oh-so-wise methods.
And on the question of soliciting them to your shop, in my experience most interior decorators are bored housewives who pow-wow at country clubs and solicit their own clients through personal connections...so unless you intend to do the same, I'm not sure how to go about it. That's just my experience, though. *sigh*
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I don't care what color your sofa is.
Interior decorators, in my experience, can be good clients, but no more so than other private clients, and I don't see much of a point in giving them the red-carpet treatment. We have clients who drop far more than they do for their own homes, and they don't ask for a discount.
Bottom line: handle them with gloves and follow Curly's oh-so-wise methods.
And on the question of soliciting them to your shop, in my experience most interior decorators are bored housewives who pow-wow at country clubs and solicit their own clients through personal connections...so unless you intend to do the same, I'm not sure how to go about it. That's just my experience, though. *sigh*
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I don't care what color your sofa is.
This is one of my favorite subjects. Here is what you can expect if you get the designer trade.
They come into your store with this haughty God like attitude. They gaze about your shop like they own it and look at you like your some kind of low life person who shouldn't even be there.
When they discover that you indeed are their next victim, er, the owner of the business, they grandiosely hand you their card and announce who they are. Giving you the impression they are your answer to financial success and how fortunate you are that they have chosen to grace your shop.
The next thing they will do is ask you if you give discounts to the designer trade.
If you say yes, it's going to be all down hill from there.
They will bring in one small picture, usually a pencil sketch by somebody important only to them. It is about 4"X 5".
Now the fun begins, ALL mat samples in your store, including discontinued ones under the counter must be tried on the image. Likewise all fabrics must be considered as well. All wood fillets must be brought out and tried as well.
Now don't start thinking your crew can keep on producing in the back, no way, the designer is going to want their opinions and input as well. Remember, you have a God in your store and all must pay homage.
After a mat combination has finally been selected we go on to selecting a frame for this 4"X 5" masterpiece.
The procedure is the same, ALL corner samples MUST be removed from your walls and tried on the mats. ALL molding catalogs MUST be brought out and poured over as well.
When the designer is satisfied that your store is completely destroyed and the rest of your day will be spent cleaning up the mess. A decision will be made.
The next thing the designer will want to know is what HER price will be. It does not matter what you quote, it will be simply out of the question. Your price will be MUCH higher than the frame shop that usually does her work.
After she has beaten you into the ground on the price and she is convinced she is getting the job below your cost, you will get the order.
Thought we where done didn't you, nah.
If your normal service is two weeks or one week or one day, it does not matter. The designer is going to need it much sooner than that.
Should you decide to do the project anyway, do not expect a deposit, forget that.
This is my favorite part, you get the job out on time. The designer comes in to pick it up and discovers your sticker on the back. That will never do, so in front of you she will tear the sticker off the backing. There is no way she would want you to get any advertising from her. The problem is she damages the backing paper when she does it. Try to guess what she want's you to do while she waits.
All the big jobs that are dangled in front of you like a carrot on a stick will never happen, those jobs will go to a production shop in the nearest large city.
Be sure to have a complete extra set of all your samples for the designers to "borrow" for good.
I'm not saying you can't make money from designers. What I'm saying is you are going to earn every penny.
Make sure, if you are foolish enough to go after that trade, to control the sales. Read and memorize Curly's response.
Myself, I do not go after that trade at all. I do get a few designers in my shop but they are treated and charged like any one else. I do NOT let them destroy my shop, stop my crew from working or squeeze me on my delivery time or price.
John
[This message has been edited by JRB (edited February 25, 2001).]
They come into your store with this haughty God like attitude. They gaze about your shop like they own it and look at you like your some kind of low life person who shouldn't even be there.
When they discover that you indeed are their next victim, er, the owner of the business, they grandiosely hand you their card and announce who they are. Giving you the impression they are your answer to financial success and how fortunate you are that they have chosen to grace your shop.
The next thing they will do is ask you if you give discounts to the designer trade.
If you say yes, it's going to be all down hill from there.
They will bring in one small picture, usually a pencil sketch by somebody important only to them. It is about 4"X 5".
Now the fun begins, ALL mat samples in your store, including discontinued ones under the counter must be tried on the image. Likewise all fabrics must be considered as well. All wood fillets must be brought out and tried as well.
Now don't start thinking your crew can keep on producing in the back, no way, the designer is going to want their opinions and input as well. Remember, you have a God in your store and all must pay homage.
After a mat combination has finally been selected we go on to selecting a frame for this 4"X 5" masterpiece.
The procedure is the same, ALL corner samples MUST be removed from your walls and tried on the mats. ALL molding catalogs MUST be brought out and poured over as well.
When the designer is satisfied that your store is completely destroyed and the rest of your day will be spent cleaning up the mess. A decision will be made.
The next thing the designer will want to know is what HER price will be. It does not matter what you quote, it will be simply out of the question. Your price will be MUCH higher than the frame shop that usually does her work.
After she has beaten you into the ground on the price and she is convinced she is getting the job below your cost, you will get the order.
Thought we where done didn't you, nah.
If your normal service is two weeks or one week or one day, it does not matter. The designer is going to need it much sooner than that.
Should you decide to do the project anyway, do not expect a deposit, forget that.
This is my favorite part, you get the job out on time. The designer comes in to pick it up and discovers your sticker on the back. That will never do, so in front of you she will tear the sticker off the backing. There is no way she would want you to get any advertising from her. The problem is she damages the backing paper when she does it. Try to guess what she want's you to do while she waits.
All the big jobs that are dangled in front of you like a carrot on a stick will never happen, those jobs will go to a production shop in the nearest large city.
Be sure to have a complete extra set of all your samples for the designers to "borrow" for good.
I'm not saying you can't make money from designers. What I'm saying is you are going to earn every penny.
Make sure, if you are foolish enough to go after that trade, to control the sales. Read and memorize Curly's response.
Myself, I do not go after that trade at all. I do get a few designers in my shop but they are treated and charged like any one else. I do NOT let them destroy my shop, stop my crew from working or squeeze me on my delivery time or price.
John
[This message has been edited by JRB (edited February 25, 2001).]
J
Janet Lowry
Guest
This is my first time actually replying to what I've read on The Grumble. I'm too busy framing! My husband will tell me about topics he's read and replied to but this particular "topic" on interior decorators hits home with me and I want to defend my clients.
Being in a smaller town than most of you, I have spent years establishing myself as a business person in this town. I was the Executive Director of our Chamber of Commerce which afforded me the opportunity to meet so many of the new businesses and old, established businesses in our area. I continue to serve on various boards and committees due to my commitment to our town (and from a very personal standpoint- I constantly pick up new customers this way). My framing relationship with interior decorators has been wonderful! One decorator in particular has NEVER asked for a discount but because she brings me about $1500 in business each month, I do discount her moulding 20%. She's great to work with, doesn't need alot of guidance because she is a good business person and knows her clients thru social and church settings. In other words, this decorator is always a welcome customer to my frame shop. When we get to the bottom line of the cost of a framing job, I tell her what the job will cost her and it's up to her to charge her customer whatever she wants to charge for her time and energy and expertise. This decorator has impeccable taste and her clientele knows she is not cheap.
My other decorator, has a large shop where she sells framed reproductions, but she does send a lot of her clients to me for their other framing needs. She also has excellent taste and her clients expect to pay a hefty price for her guidance. I give her 10% off on anything she wants framed for her own personal home.
It would be interesting to hear from some of the other framers in small towns (under 15,000 population) where they are the only frame shop in town. We are a bedroom community to Raleigh (about 20 minutes from Clayton) and my closest competition is Michael's. The feedback from my decorators is very negative towards the Michael's-type of framing as they feel that they can never establish a relationship with a framer due to the constant turn-over of employees in training.
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Janet Lowry
[This message has been edited by Janet Lowry (edited February 25, 2001).]
Being in a smaller town than most of you, I have spent years establishing myself as a business person in this town. I was the Executive Director of our Chamber of Commerce which afforded me the opportunity to meet so many of the new businesses and old, established businesses in our area. I continue to serve on various boards and committees due to my commitment to our town (and from a very personal standpoint- I constantly pick up new customers this way). My framing relationship with interior decorators has been wonderful! One decorator in particular has NEVER asked for a discount but because she brings me about $1500 in business each month, I do discount her moulding 20%. She's great to work with, doesn't need alot of guidance because she is a good business person and knows her clients thru social and church settings. In other words, this decorator is always a welcome customer to my frame shop. When we get to the bottom line of the cost of a framing job, I tell her what the job will cost her and it's up to her to charge her customer whatever she wants to charge for her time and energy and expertise. This decorator has impeccable taste and her clientele knows she is not cheap.
My other decorator, has a large shop where she sells framed reproductions, but she does send a lot of her clients to me for their other framing needs. She also has excellent taste and her clients expect to pay a hefty price for her guidance. I give her 10% off on anything she wants framed for her own personal home.
It would be interesting to hear from some of the other framers in small towns (under 15,000 population) where they are the only frame shop in town. We are a bedroom community to Raleigh (about 20 minutes from Clayton) and my closest competition is Michael's. The feedback from my decorators is very negative towards the Michael's-type of framing as they feel that they can never establish a relationship with a framer due to the constant turn-over of employees in training.
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Janet Lowry
[This message has been edited by Janet Lowry (edited February 25, 2001).]
Hi Janet, welcome to the Grumble.
It's a shame you don't log on more often, I think you would be a valued addition to our forum.
You will notice in my last post that I also have a few "Professional" designers that I deal with. But only a few. Most of these people who claim to be designers are not or they have no people skills when it comes to dealing with vendors. I'm to old and to cranky to have to put up with that nonsense.
The few designers I do cater to appreciate the work we put out. They to do not demand discounts or any other special treatment and they are a pleasure to do business with. But they are profesionals and there is no way they fit into the catagory of my last post. I also do not expect the large orders from them, I know those will got to a production shop.
It is unfortunate for their industry that there are so many jerks and fakes involved in it.
I wonder how yours would treat you if a production shop geared for designers opened in your town. If they are genuine designers probably nothing until a large job came along.
Anyway,
Welcome to the club,
John
It's a shame you don't log on more often, I think you would be a valued addition to our forum.
You will notice in my last post that I also have a few "Professional" designers that I deal with. But only a few. Most of these people who claim to be designers are not or they have no people skills when it comes to dealing with vendors. I'm to old and to cranky to have to put up with that nonsense.
The few designers I do cater to appreciate the work we put out. They to do not demand discounts or any other special treatment and they are a pleasure to do business with. But they are profesionals and there is no way they fit into the catagory of my last post. I also do not expect the large orders from them, I know those will got to a production shop.
It is unfortunate for their industry that there are so many jerks and fakes involved in it.
I wonder how yours would treat you if a production shop geared for designers opened in your town. If they are genuine designers probably nothing until a large job came along.
Anyway,
Welcome to the club,
John
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JRB:
All the big jobs that are dangled in front of you like a carrot on a stick will never happen, those jobs will go to a production shop in the nearest large city.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
BEWARE!!! I am going through a couple of these right now, but have not buckled. John is absolutely right.
What will happen is that they want you to price say, 500 pieces. Then, maybe a couple of months later you MIGHT see 5 or 10... and they expect the 500 pricing, NO WAY! No 500 pricing until I get a written commitment for 500 AND at least 50% deposit.
Its quite sad how some try to take advantage and sadder yet at how many humble shopkeepers fall for it. Stick with the no discount residential, if your work is killer, they'll come sooner or later and then its on YOUR terms.
---Mike
www.tadporters.com
[This message has been edited by TADPORTER (edited February 25, 2001).]
All the big jobs that are dangled in front of you like a carrot on a stick will never happen, those jobs will go to a production shop in the nearest large city.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
BEWARE!!! I am going through a couple of these right now, but have not buckled. John is absolutely right.
What will happen is that they want you to price say, 500 pieces. Then, maybe a couple of months later you MIGHT see 5 or 10... and they expect the 500 pricing, NO WAY! No 500 pricing until I get a written commitment for 500 AND at least 50% deposit.
Its quite sad how some try to take advantage and sadder yet at how many humble shopkeepers fall for it. Stick with the no discount residential, if your work is killer, they'll come sooner or later and then its on YOUR terms.
---Mike
www.tadporters.com
[This message has been edited by TADPORTER (edited February 25, 2001).]
Frame Harbor
CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
Originally posted by TADPORTER:
BEWARE!!! I am going through a couple of these right now, but have not buckled. John is absolutely right.
if your work is killer, they'll come sooner or later and then its on YOUR terms.
---Mike
Mike, I think that you hit the nail right on. Congratulations. IDs need to frame somewhere and if they don't frame with you they must do it with somebody else. The trade does not loose them. After all, nobody could date all the girls he liked to, right? Similarly, it's useless and senseless to blame the interior decorators for not knowing in depth what they are about to lose by choosing somebody else. Anyway, not after spending time to know your offer and possibilities the way JBR describes it. Fact is that many times we take it personally as if we are the Mecca of the trade, a sort of must be me. And it hurts to be coming in second.
Noticed that we are talking of interior decorators as if they are all clones of each other and rolling the same business? The very way framers are spreading their skills anywhere between low, middle and high end framing, interior designers are of different qualities and apertures too. And they look out for their match in doing business. Interior designers are professional buyers and I refuse to believe that such a person would loose his time with any discussions unless they’ve got there a possible match.
A high end framer will get no business from low and middle end interior designers or from cheap residents for that matter. A framer placed in the middle of the stream won’t catch the extreme clientele even if he wants to. Occasionally a higher end client will give him a job (reason to celebrate) the very way cheaper ones will mistaken him for somebody else, and then he gets amused or infuriated enough as to share it on the Grumbler. You always appeal to one third of the market only. And if that market is small and the supply in excess… I believe that you cannot be ignored or boycotted in business by your matching clientele. In this respect (hope you allow my comparison), a Jewish businessman will buy German items if he can sell them with profit, regardless of his feelings. The reverse is also true: one cannot scheme his way into a market he does not belong to. Simple and clear.
Don't be so harsh on designers;you are too many and they are just a few desirable ones.
I'll bet that Jewish business man was not a survivor of the Shoah.
John
John
Frame Harbor
CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
Dear John,
Know what? You are right, too! Who didn't survive Shoah faced very, very, very little (next to none) chances to go in business thereafter.
Now, on a serious note, Jewish business success, believe you me, is beyond our normal capacity to understand, judge or copy. Consequently, I stay by my initial assertion as I was referring to their business bone.
I am flattered you had nothing else to comment with respect to my take on the main topic of this thread, namely interior decorators framing business. I assume we are in full agreement in that major respect.
[This message has been edited by Frame Harbor (edited March 04, 2001).]
Know what? You are right, too! Who didn't survive Shoah faced very, very, very little (next to none) chances to go in business thereafter.
Now, on a serious note, Jewish business success, believe you me, is beyond our normal capacity to understand, judge or copy. Consequently, I stay by my initial assertion as I was referring to their business bone.
I am flattered you had nothing else to comment with respect to my take on the main topic of this thread, namely interior decorators framing business. I assume we are in full agreement in that major respect.
[This message has been edited by Frame Harbor (edited March 04, 2001).]
I like them, have a lot of them, and want to keep them: the baddies seem to disappear with the high prices proffered.
Frame Harbor
CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
MerpsMom, you made my point. One more comment: the baddies don't disappear but move one ore more steps lower in search for framers that are compatible with their taste, budget and class.
No, suzy, I don't. They get my wonderful expertise, stunning design experience, and terrific personality. I figure that's enough.
Flippancy aside, you give a lot of time to most designers; and even if you don't, they probably don't give you enough business to rate the discount. I guess only you can figure whether it's worth it to you. But I like them.
Flippancy aside, you give a lot of time to most designers; and even if you don't, they probably don't give you enough business to rate the discount. I guess only you can figure whether it's worth it to you. But I like them.