Inquiring minds want to know …

[Bill Henry-]

We all get these PITA frames that people pick up at yard sales or buy from a discount department store and who need the corners repaired because they are “heirlooms”.

They are the type that need to be mitered on a jig and whose corners need to be held together with biscuits or splines because there are no right angles between the back of the frame and its outside edge.

Similar to the terms, cove, swan, Hogarth, Whistler, etc., does anyone know of the general, generic term for this kind of profile?

PITA, junk, %^#$ and, crappé are terms that come to mind, but decorum prevents me from referring to those frames to my customers using those words.

 

[j Paul]

Don't know Bill, that looks like a tough one to do a repair on with the equipment we have such as underpinners.

Good case of telling the customer that the labor charge/time will cost more than a new frame! Sometimes you just gotta save no! :######: Don't know why the little ###### smiles is blanking out like a bad word.

"Just say no!" Nancy Regean

 

[RoboFramer]

Looks like a naked person fixing a roof to me!

 

[kra]

I don't know what it's called but I cut one down to a smaller size about a month ago and it was difficult to handle. It would not fit in underpinner or framing clamps. It looked like a 3" crown moulding profile with a rabbit groove cut in it
but it would not cut like crown because the rabbit was not cut square to the overall profile. Just as soon not mess with the next one that comes in.
Randy

 

[Dave]

Similar to the terms, cove, swan, Hogarth, Whistler, etc., does anyone know of the general, generic term for this kind of profile?

PITA, junk, %^#$ and, crappé are terms that come to mind, but decorum prevents me from referring to those frames to my customers using those words.

Would you be able to call them "Schlocke Frames" without offending the customer??? For some reason we always used that term to describe junk ...the adjective was schlockey ...as in ..."He always brings us his schlockey stuff!". I'm not sure, but it might be a jewish slang term.



Dave Makielski

 

[brian..k]

That'd make a nice crown moulding. You could add a light strip in the recessed rabbet to give it a nice glow.

 

[CAframer]

Looks to me like someone turned a piece of crown moulding upside down and then cut a rabbet in it!

 

[Rogatory]

Man I hate those things. "Artists" buy them by the truck load at garage sales then make "art" to fit em. Then aunt Suzzie buys it from them cause she feels sorry for the "artist", brings it in and wonders if I can fix it.

Sure! $60 hr and it'l take about 4.5 hours to fix it.... mam... mam....

 

[Rick Granick]

Would you be able to call them "Schlocke Frames" without offending the customer??? For some reason we always used that term to describe junk ...the adjective was schlockey ...as in ..."He always brings us his schlockey stuff!". I'm not sure, but it might be a jewish slang term.

Shlock (meaning "of low quality; cheap; shoddy") came into American English in the early 20th century from Yiddish, where it originally meant "broken or damaged merchandise". It can be used as either an adjective or a noun.
It would certainly be appropriate under the circumstances, but I wouldn't use it in front of the customer. I would just beg off the job by explaining that our equipment can't handle a profile like that.

:kaffeetrinker_2: Rick

 

[Baer Charlton]

"Well madame, if the "backer rail" hadn't been removed sometime in the last century, it would have been able to be fitted in our Whrentley vise and repaired. But because some bonehead removed that, they have made it unrepairable."

Back in the late 1870s, crown moulding was turned up and rabited to make frames by a company that slips my mind at the moment, but I'm thinking it was Rumpford Co out of the Atlanta area.

They are also responsable for those wonderful black ovals made from 1/2" thick plywood with a tiny edge of compo around the sight edge and back edge. The "blacking" was asphaltum and coal dust. The company that made the "laminated skive wood" later went on to be even bigger and better at making veneers into sheet wood.... their name is Georgia Pacific now.

This kind of frame moulding is the cheapest way to make a 4" wide moulding that is 3" deep..... and it comes out of 3/4 stock.

 

[A.Wise]

My question is how DO you put something like that together? I had one from Roma like that. I had to send it back to them and have them put it together. I couldn't put in the underpinner. It wouldn't fit in a vise. The back of it just had to much of a curve to put it together.

 

[Framar]

Hey Baer is that the same company that made the big black round frames for the three horse heads??? I have one of those - I think it was called The Three Graces.

When they were good they were very very good and when they were bad they were horrid.

 

[Pat Murphey]

I don't know what you call them - but to me the answer for a repair job is NO!

 

[Bill Henry-]

After the first one we were asked to fix years ago, we steadfastly refuse to even attempt repairing these things.

With great patience, we have to explain that because of the sloped back, we cannot clamp them in a vise, but I would like to be able to impress my customers with an erudite explanation, “Aha, that’s a {Potrizibie*} style frame, designed and manufactured overseas by indentured monkeys, and impossible to repair with either the current technology or with anything that has been around for 300 years!”

* I just want to replace the word, Potrizibie, with the correct name as opposed to referring to it as a Piece of Rubbish.

Looks like a naked person fixing a roof to me!

I think John may need some serious professional help!

 

[Baer Charlton]

* I just want to replace the word, Potrizibie, with the correct name as opposed to referring to it as a Piece of Rubbish.

Rumsford will work. I was wrong at Rumpsford.

They were manufactured upside down on a sliding table vise. All four sides were glued together at the same time with RSG, and nails were applied. By the time all the nails were in and counter sunk, the RSG had cooled an the frame was removed from the press.

A similar temperary press can be made with MDF, hot glued blocks and expansion wedges.

Tack the Foot area first all around, then stitch down the face. Cross nailing was the preferred method and cut nails the preferred fastener. Pray the vendors never read this thread.

Yes Mar, thats the Turkey.

 

[Jim Miller]

These come to us on occasion for repair. Yes, they are a large pain in the vice.

I can't figure out what Baer was trying to describe above, but my strategy is to tack a triangular cleat, for lack of a better term, on the back of the frame, to provide a vertical surface (parallel to the rabbet) for the underpinner or vice to engage.

The cleats are easy enough to make. They only need to be long enough to fit the jaws of the vice or underpinner, tacked on both ends of the rails. Just make sure the cleats are fastened securely enough to withstand the pressure and impact of the joining process.

Attach them temporarily by brads or screws, then remove them after the joining is finished. The putty-filled holes are inconspicuous on the angled back of the frame.

While it would be desirable to sell a new moulding to these folks, sometimes the old frame has sentimental value that justifies their considerable cost for the repair.

 

[wpfay]

I can't remember the source, but I learned these frames were called "Wingback" frames, though like all framing mythology, it could be more of the mythinformation. Not that the other names aren't more appropriate.
Some were milled so that they could be held in a standard framing vise. I have added that feature to those that don't have it by running the moulding through the table saw.
Whatever you call them they are a PITA.

 

[Bill Henry-]

Bingo! We have a winner!

Sorry, Baer, but Rumsford is too close to sounding like Rumford (Maine), so henceforth, in deference to Wally, I shall call this problem frame a “wingback”.

Thanks!