I'll never buy another Fletcher product!

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frameconscience

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For the third time in the past several years, The Fletcher-Terry Company has pulled yet another overhyped product from the market, leaving us with a virtually worthless piece of equipment.

The most immediate impact of Fletcher's decision is that your now discontinued FT6100, is suddenly an obsolete product (can you say, "Yugo?") whose residual value is drastically reduced.

That's right, the computerized mat cutter you spent more than $20,000 for is is now "a rental machine" and the lease expires in only seven years.

It's a shame too, because the 6100 is actually a good machine. Sure, it's way overpriced - this is the same technology used in plotter-type printers, and for cutting vinyl sign lettering - but except for a few cumbersome user interface flaws, the 6100 is a great piece of equipment, which is something that can't be said of Fletcher's other recent abortions - namely it's manual and pneumatic underpinners.

Poorly conceived - let's make a giant point driver and call it an underpinner! - and inadequately tested, the Fletcher underpinners were some of the worst products in the history of the industry. They belong in the Framing Hall of shame along with the Omega Saw and the Mat Maestro.

Maybe Fletcher should stick to making simple tools like manual mat cutters. You really can't screw up a razor blade on a train track. Can you?
 
Originally posted by frameconscience:
...Maybe Fletcher should stick to making simple tools like manual mat cutters...
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Apparently Fletcher agrees with you.

To say you will never buy another Fletcher product seems a bit harsh. And self-defeating. After all, most Fletcher products are the best we can buy. And the F-6100 is, by all accounts, a very good CMC.

I'm disappointed that my Fletcher F-6100 will not enjoy future upgrades of software & maybe hardware...No, on second thought I'm really p****d about that. But still it is, and will continue to be, a darn good machine for my purposes.

I wonder if anyone has considered buying the F-6100 design & parts from Fletcher?
 
It would be nice to hear something from Fletcher on your question Jim. The 6100 is a great machine Yes, we paid a premium price, but I suspect most of us who bought in expected Fletcher to stay in the market. It would be nice to know if fletcher is trying to market the rights to manufacture and support, or if the withdrawal is part of a "buyout" arrangement with a competitor.
 
I'll never buy French fries again.
 
I would SUPPORT Fletcher rather than putting them down.
When RCI went down ( maker of the Mat Maestro). We never put down the machine as it was actually a good machine but without support or good software. It was just not effective for us to do that.
We just hoped someone would step up and take over the orphaned M/M CMC. Well that did happen and now the M/M is getting good tech support and replacement parts.
I will bet someone will take over the 6100 machine. I think whoever does it will focus just on the CMC such as Wizard does and not on so many products at once.
I support Fletcher thay are a good company and I would never part with all my other Fletcher products.
 
Less, you're going much to far! Fletcher probably should have priced their product closer to their competitor's, maybe even gotten a little creative so they could overcome the expense of software development and support. But depriving yourself of French fries--try something less drastic like switching to Australian wines.
 
As a Mat Maestro owner, I'm getting pretty tired of all the whining from the poor, unfortunate 6100 owners.

I would KILL for seven years of support for my CMC. **** , in seven years, I'll be as old as Framerguy and probably headed for Florida.

And I won't be taking my Mat Maestro with me!
 
Judy
I am offended there is nothing HOKEY about POKEY, I want a retraction.
 
Originally posted by frameconscience:

pneumatic underpinners.

Poorly conceived - let's make a giant point driver and call it an underpinner! - and inadequately tested, the Fletcher underpinners were some of the worst products in the history of the industry. They belong in the Framing Hall of shame

Just curious, I'm wondering if you have owned one of these?
I've owned one for years and even though it was frustrating at times (mostly after I found out it was discontinued) I have learned it has certain limitations, (as all equipment does, more or less) still use it and have not seen any real reason to go out a replace it. We still get support from the Fletcher team whenever we need it. I hope the sting of your purchase will wear off. I don't own a Fletcher cmc (die hard Eclipse owner, here!), but I know a couple of framers who have bought that machine and I don't think you've been stuck with a lemon. That machine will pay for itself in a few years and even though you won't be any ahead as for as the monetary investment is concerned, you won't
be in any worse off for the purchase. (You WILL still be ahead because the machine will save you so much time.) I'm just throwing out my perspective because I was very upset about my underpinner purchase right after I found out it had been discontinued. All the problems and headaches I visualized simply didn't materialize. (Now if I could only say the same thing about that first pos system I spent a wad on...I truly would have been better off if I'd gone and flushed $2000.--absolutely NOTHING to show for it. Oh well. Cut my losses and bought a good one the second time around.)

[ 04-23-2003, 09:22 AM: Message edited by: Barb Pelton ]
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Ron, bring down the
Maestro...we need more artificial reefs.
 
How many of all of the CMC's will be viable in 7 years vs what will be new in the future.

All of the machines will be obsolite to some degree or another. If you are doing the right thing with your accouting, it will have already been charged off and as a result FREE AND CLEAR. It will own you nothing.

We should be lucky that these limited market machines do not cost us more.
 
Excellent point Jerome! Every year at trade shows I have customers ask when the price of CMC's will start comming down. Well, guess what, they won't. There are approximately 20,000 frame shops in the states. (PPFA numbers, not mine.) You have Wizard, Eclipse, Valianni, Pistorius, Zuni(sic), Fletcher and a host of others dabling.

That limited market is what keeps the price of these machines high! It is a miracle that the prices don't go up. It is a constant struggle for these companies to keep costs down and continue to supply the support and software upgrades that customers demand.

Can you imagine the money in R&D that Wizard spent on their 8000 board! A complete re-engineering of the hardware and software will still take some time to re-coup yet the price of the board (for purchase) only went up $2,000.

Proper accounting depreciation, plus knowing your cost of goods and charging the correct price will (should) prove that these machines easily pay for themselves in two years and that many of my customers who have the business savy to figure it out will tell you that they've often paid for themselves in twelve months.

I personally think that Fletcher should be commended for building a fine product and reallly should get kudos for supporting this machine for the next seven years.
 
I noticed that no one welcomed you in their reply to your very 1st post as a new Grumbler.

Oh well.

It is always very suspicious when a post like yours is done under a profile that conceals your identity. It is hard to gain respect under these terms. Even your choice of name betrays your motives. I wonder if your soul purpose of registering was just to make this attacking post. What is “frameconscience ”? (conscience : sense of right and wrong, scruples, principles, ethics) Are you looking to bring a sense of morality to the matter? Hey, this is about business. You win some, you lose some.

With such a profoundly meaningful name like "frameconscience", it will seem odd to me when your next post is a humble and innocuous one like “ . . how do I store glass so that that it won’t . . .”. This whole 'avenger' thing seems like a tough act you gotta keep up!

Your comparison to the Yugo did make me laugh. The average Yugo buyer was looking to spend the least possible amount on what is categorically the worst possible investment you can make – a car. I doubt that a single buyer of a 6100 shared that same list of priorities. Oh and by the way, the Yugo never really went away and you’ll get your chance to buy your second one fairly soon. From your story, it sounds to me like you really know how to pick’em!
 
I originally posted this in the wrong place, it is more appropriate here:

Frameconscience,

I thought I would pipe in here. My job is certainly easier now that Fletcher-Terry has decided to re-focus on their core businesses, but I do not believe the 6100 CMC was a failure nor is Fletcher abandoning their Model 6100 customers. In fact I believe they have gone out of their way to ensure that their customers are “taken care of” for several years to come.

CMC’s are technology products, and as such constant investment in updates and upgrades are required in order to keep the technology current. Fletcher simply made a business decision to invest their resources in areas more closely aligned with their traditional core competencies. This Company did not get to be 100+ years old by making decisions that run their customers off. Unfortunately a business will occasionally find its self in the position of making a financial decision that may not sit well with ever single customer, but on the whole they protect the overall business and act in the best interest of the majority of their customers and their shareholders.

I think Fletcher took the high ground here in announcing their path forward while making a long-term commitment to their existing customers, their approach is not the common one in any industry. From my perspective I know for a fact that they made us develop into a better Company, and the owners of our new Model 8000 CMC can thank Fletcher for pushing us into creating the next generation Wizard.

The Model 6100 is a product Fletcher can be very proud of, and the owners of these machines can be happy they have a quality tool for their business.
 
ok marc and eric...what are you two saying? i am trying to follow you ,but not getting it? is this person acting like he knows nothing about framing then knows about cmc's? is that what i am suppossed to understand?

de
 
Dennis, I just hate seeing you so lost and confused.

This thread, titled, "I'll never buy another Fletcher product!" was started in April by Frameconscience. Many of us felt his tirade against Fletcher was an over-reaction but, as we frequently hear, it IS The Grumble.

Then, a few days ago, he posted on the classifieds forum:

Originally posted by frameconscience:
Looking to buy Fletcher 2100; Fletcher 3000/3100
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The moral here is, even if he doesn't appear to be paying attention, Marc is watching. If you're going to take a stupid position, it should at least be consistently stupid.
 
Originally posted by dns y:
yeah i agree-i should be consistantly stupid...i will try not to let you down
de
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dennis,

Ron is trying really hard to make you understand the progression of the posts that you weren't following. They get a little confusing if you didn't stay on top of them.

He was referring to the guy who posted about "I'll never buy another Fletcher product again" and then a week or so later posts a want ad to buy Fletcher products.

Do you understand now??

He wasn't talking about you at all.

Framerguy
 
Framerguy's right, Dennis.

You may be confused, but you haven't given me any reason to assume you're stupid.

Really, there are probably not many stupid people on The Grumble - just some that make brash, indefensible (and contradictory) statements that make them APPEAR stupid.
 
Guy’s

I think you should let go of this one…….we have all most likely (I know I have) made postings which we would like to forget about……and if the edit facility was still available I would love to delete/edit a few old postings….I think it is a bit rich for those of you who can, if they want (moderators) to start taking shots at those of us who cannot edit old posts.

Be nice guy’s and have a nice day……….perhaps a better way forward would be to try and find a way for those of us who cannot edit old post, to have a way for us to correct our old rants or errors…….taking pot shots at those of us who cannot edit our old posts is not a very dignified.

Rgs

Dermot
 
I don't know about Marc (nobody really knows about Marc) but I certainly can't go back and edit out all the stupid stuff I've said on The Grumble. It would be an endless task.

Ron's to-do list for 8/14/2003:
</font>
  1. Kill the Nemean Lion</font>
  2. Kill the Lernean Hydra</font>
  3. Capture the Cerynian Hind</font>
  4. Capture the Erymanthian Boar</font>
  5. Clean the Augean Stables (my basement)</font>
  6. Kill the Stymphalian Birds</font>
  7. Capture the Cretan Bull</font>
  8. Capture the Horses of Diomedes</font>
  9. Take the Girdle of the Amazon Queen Hippolyte</font>
  10. Capture the Cattle of Geryon</font>
  11. Take the Golden Apples of the Hesperides</font>
  12. Capture Cerberus</font>
  13. Edit all the stupid stuff I've said on The Grumble</font>
Besides, all I really wanted to do here was clear up Dennis' confusion, though I seem to have compounded it instead.
 
I think this gentleman may have too many used ones in inventory to sell - that is, if I've got my dots connected and the arrow points to a used framing equipment dealer... hmmmm...
 
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