I never thought I'd see the day ...........

Framerguy

PFG, Picture Framing God
Joined
Apr 12, 2001
Posts
7,261
Loc
Destin, Florida
When somebody brought back some framing with WallBuddies on them and ask me to switch them to sawtooth hangers!!
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This very nice little "annually experienced" lady came in with 3 pieces that I framed for her last Fall and quietly asked if I couldn't put those "little hangers" in the middle of her frames for her. The reason, she didn't want to drive in 2 nails to hang her art in her condo!

(She had them under her bed since last October)

I explained the step by step process of hanging with WB's and even offered to go over to the condo and hang them for her at no charge but her reply was, "I guess I'm from the old school of doing things simple!"

OK, so I remove her WB'S, installed screweyes and wire, (I talked her out of sawtooth hangers because of the size of the framings), and she was tickled pink!

Go figure!

Framerguy
 
This is the exact reason I have shied away from gimmicky hanging systems. It does not matter how well they work or how easy they are to use, they will always confuse somebody.

How many other of your customers have had to replace or go to another frame shop to have a proper wire put on your framing?

I learned on another thread that the nice people at WallBuddies thinks it is a great idea to slam professional picture framers who do not use their product. Myself, I think they should be relegated to the home hobby craftsman and let it go at that.

John
 
One time I put wallbuddies on several paintings for a customers home. She hated them and could not and did not want to figure them out. I had to go over and change them out to wire and strap hangers all and hang them.
I don't use wall buddies on everything as most people just like the "old" wire way.
 
We had it happen a few times where we have had to go out to the cutomer's house to check why our framer "didn't put any wire" on the back. We explanined the system but they wanted wire, no ifs, ands or buts.
 
Well, I deal with Darrell Keller directly for my WB's and have been using them since they first came out and, if he is "slamming" others who don't use his system, he has never said anything to me about it. And I can assure you that, if he had, I would have mentioned it right here as I don't abide by that type of marketing by anyone directly connected to the product in question.

I have installed probably a thousand sets of WB's over the past few years and this is the first case of someone wanting to switch to the "old system". I have had such success with them that a few of my customers who own collections down here have brought in the rest of their framing to have me switch to WB's because they preferred the solid, level, no adjustment results they get from a 2 point hanging system.

John, are you sure that the other thread that badmouthed the alleged badmouther wasn't from someone who didn't understand the hanging system or maybe had a personal axe to grind with the WB people? As is mentioned continually on this forum, many times we only get to hear one side of the story or someone's bad personal experience with a product. It's bad form, in my opinion, to not ask questions first before either condoning or condemning a product and that may well be the case here.

Case in point, if you search back to when AEZ first hit the scene, I asked repeated questions about the product and the attaching pieces with no direct answers being posted to this forum. With that in mind, I never offered a blanket condemnation of the product. I did do extensive research on like products that were made by Avery, cheaper, and were essentially the same guns and posted my findings here but I have never put down Ms. Kotnour nor her product, only her lack of response to my questions. I may own one of the attaching guns eventually but I will not base my decision to buy or not buy on other's badmouthing of them, only my own rationale for needing one.

FGII
 
I really enjoied seeing all those Wallbuddies being used in the Louvre and the Prado. Who would have believed that WBs where around for Titan to use . . . :D

I guess it goes hand in hand with those marvelous new exstruded polystyrene faux imitation gold metal leaf frames.....
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and to steal someone elses by-line "that's all I'm gonna say about that."
 
Framerguy and all,

I want to acknowlege that I posted the information about the WallBuddies site. I would like to appologize to Darrell and anyone else for any misconceptions. I should have contacted Darrell personally to inform him that some of us that feel the information presented may be detrimental to us in the industry. I felt that when he said "Framing industry" he was thinking about the cheap production lowest possible bid type of framed art that we see outside of custom frame shops. I feel the information could be read wrong and could reinforce concepts we do not want the general public to believe about us. I don't feel it is an attitude or intentional jab on Darrell's part.
I feel Darrell has given us a wonderfully useful tool to help us serve our customers.

Mitch
 
I've had two instances where customers brought back their framed pictures that I used WallBuddies on because they did not like them. When they brought them back, they had wire strung between the Wallbuddies. No amount of explaining how they worked would convince them. I viewed it as my fault for not properly explaining their use beforehand.

Since those two instances, I've borrowed or stole an idea from Ron and now provide a template for customers whose frame jobs have wallbuddies attached, and make it a point to explain how to use the template. They really appreciate the template and the explanation. It's an opportunity to go the extra mile with customer service that not everyone does.

-Mike.
 
When I use Wallbuddies, such as for large shadowboxes etc., I make a cardboard hanging template with holes at positions corresponding to the centerpoints of the Wallbuddies. This way, the customer can just hold the lightweight template up to the wall, mark thru the holes, put in the hooks, and hang. I explain the process when they pick up the art, and assure them it's even easier than hanging with a wire. I do this for ring-hanger (with no wire) jobs too. They think I'm a genius.
:cool: Rick
 
We've covered this ground before, but maybe it's time to do it again.

Once in a while a customer will reject WallBuddies altogether, but it's usually because he/she doesn't understand how they work. Some folks think they just look too complicated to be simple. A simple explanation is all it takes in most cases. But if the customer absolutely must have a wire, we'll change it.

Nearly all of our customers love their WallBuddies, because we explain them going in. In fact, that hanging system is just the advantage we need to get some jobs. Like this...

1. When we design a frame, we always talk about hanging hardware before we finalize the order. We have a WallBuddies demo at the design table and show it to everyone who isn't familiar with them. 95% love it and want it.

2. When the customer comes to pick up, we review the frame design and point out the WallBuddies and wall hooks on the back of the frame. We then ask, "Do you remember how these work?" Usually the answer is yes, but if not, we show them again. We also give them a brochure with hanging instructions for WallBuddies, wire and D-rings; hanging tips, handling tips, our warranty, and a "special offer for next time".

The template idea is good, but here's a simpler one:

Bend up the center point on each side of the frame. Tell the customer to hold the frame against the wall and push, so the points will make small marks on the wall. That's where the wall hooks go.

No measuring. No more perforating the wall to get it in the right place. No more crooked pictures.
 
I used them. I’ve not heard a positive comment from the customer about them.

If the frame is thin and/or very wide, I just put them on there because is necessary. If that’s not the case I don't use them because they are hardly necessary and do confuse people.

I haven't had to redo any hangers yet but I have been asked to NOT use them.
 
An interesting suggestion, Jim. It's like the center "bump" in the middle of a sawtooth hanger. The thing about templates is that they also serve to protect the glass on the ride home. Plus, they are easier for the cust. to hold up to the wall than the frame itself during the marking process. I would be wary about the bent-out center point cutting someone's hand, car seat, or furniture before it gets to the wall. Although we handle frames carefully and thoughtfully, I'm often somewhat taken aback by what I see customers do with them.
:eek: Rick
 
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