I "might" give "polystyrene" mouldings a shot...

[FrameItEtc]

Hi. A while back (a few weeks ago) discussions were posted on the good/bad of "polystyrene" mouldings. I stated the chance of me stocking them was VERY, VERY slim. Well, I spoke to a salesperson that i have known for the past 16 years and asked her several questions on the good/bad. The good side, i was told was, of course, the low cost. Others good-sided facts were "condensity" ...shoot a nail in it and it is as hard to get out of as any hardwood... "durable finish" ...same finish as applied to wood moulding, therefore, just as durable ... "warpage"... very little because of the density, but, the bigger the frame, the more it has to be supported, just like wood... "Cheep" looking? No. I was sent a few corner samples and 3" pcs AND about 50 feet of a 3 1/2 in moulding for me to "experiment" with and make sure i liked it. Well, I did. I DID NOT HAVE TO CHANGE BLADED ON MY MITRE SAW. I have a "Ledsom", which came with (14") that would cut polystyrene mouldings as well as wood, metal, etc. at the same cutting speed as i would when cutting wooden mouldings. It did... it cut like butter and the joint was super... NO cracks in the joint and it did not mealt down anywhere. I called Wall Moulding and asked the salesperson only one question. Why were there a few scratches on some of the sticks (8 sticks 4 1/2 feet long)... 4 scratches, each on a separate stick mostly on the ends, only one in the middle. I was told the sticks were not individually wrapped, but were separated by a thin white foam board. I was told the problem is not bad enough to complain to the manufacturer about, so they guarantee to replace, or credit footage of any mouldings i receive with that problem.

Question: Do you sell polystyrene mouldings purchased from Wall Moulding in Texas? If so, what are the pros and cons? If you don't, what other suppliers do you use that sell the "condensed" versions of polystyredne mouldings? Thanks for any info. I plan to "give it a shot" by the end of August of this year if everything goes right. Thanks.
(Note: Embedded in the back of the moulding i was sent footage of was: Made in Korea)

 

[The Frame Lady]

I haven't had much experience with them, but I bought some discontinued moulding a while back that was poly and loved it. It was very consistant, and joined beautifully. I wish my local suppliers carried more. I also like the aspect that of not killing trees for it. So many profiles don't show any wood anyway and it really doesn't matter to me what's inside if it does the job right.

Good luck with your experimenting. We can't ever learn if we don't try something new!

 

[Whynot]

FrameItEtc,

Usually, we don't talk in the open about our sins

Why would you?

The Frame Lady,

I don't comment your molding taste, but what's that horrible about killing trees? Trees die too, after a while, and regenerate. By the same token, nature can not recycle billions of plastic bags, bottles etc. Humans do, with a big price. Why add plastic frames to the existing and troublesome plastic pile anyway? Are they that much of a valuable artifact as to endure for ever???!!! I'm afraid that you made a bad choice out of a poorly understood concern for nature's integrity. Think it over carefully.

[ 04-22-2003, 12:40 PM: Message edited by: American Choice ]

 

[Jim Miller]

If all those plastic milk jugs and grocery bags can be recycled into something useful at low cost, then it's better than burying them in landfills.

I'm a business owner, not an ecologist. I use a few plastic mouldings because they represent the best value for my clients at certain price points. And they're more profitable than wood.

Many in our industry are woodworkers and crafty folks, so their resistance to plastic moulding is understandable. But let's keep an open mind here, and not be blinded by tradition.

The reality is that plastic mouldings are getting better and wood mouldings are getting worse. MDF is often put up as an alternative to wood -- it is, after all, a wood product. But it's worse than plastic, IMHO.

Plastic mouldings will probably surpass the appearance and handling qualities of wood mouldings in the foreseeable future. It's happening already. Plastic frames hang in the fanciest hotels, and look as good as the wood they replaced.

How much profit am I willing to sacrifice in order to continue using only wood? Not much.

 

[Whynot]

Jim,

At least you have a valid point there, the profitability, and I can’t argue against it. I myself am not an ecologist but I can say a weak ecologic reasoning from a strong one.
Killing trees was what caught my attention in the first place.

As of plastic frames being sold in ever larger volume compared to wood frames, I find it normal. Afterwards, the market for faked art and art copies was always there teaching us the same lesson: most people are not able or willing to pay the price and get the real thing. However, the real art did not disappear or lose value because of art copies being possible and abundantly available for less, nor high end framing houses got less numerous and profitable because lower end frames being abundantly offered for much less in apparently the same market.
Hotels are the least inclined of institutions (clients) to acquire, keep and offer enduring values, right? Living off hotels’ needs to replace broken accessories and fully redecorate every now and then might prove to be a very profitable business avenue, but one in which one's work and product is purchased in bulk and regarded as dispensable.
The custom framers’ art, knowledge and “arsenal” did not get that far and deep (i.e. preservation approach and materials) because frames were regarded as short lived accessories, quite the contrary. I think that the more plastic-ish it gets, the more dispensable frames become, and the less valuable of a thing frames become, the less need for custom framers will be.
One way or the other, one sort or the other, frames will always be in demand and people will continue make money off it. Providing the plastic trend holds on, one (hopefully distant) day, plastic frame providers might just well become a new species of framers to whom, having had a XX Century regular custom framer for a father or grand father will amount to a certificate of aristocratic origins.

 

[FrameItEtc]

How does the "foil" finish on polystyrene mouldings hold up? (I assume that foil is foil, whether it is on wood or polystyrene...)

[ 04-28-2003, 07:56 AM: Message edited by: FrameItEtc ]

 

[Puppyraiser]

We have a wide poly moulding on the outside facade of the store around a sign that says (duh) CUSTOM FRAMING. From the ground (it's about 15 feet up) it looks fine after about 3 years. For what THAT'S worth...

 

[Whynot]

FrameItEtc,

You are right. The foil holds up equally well on plastic, glass, stone or wood.

However, a good finish is not about foil holding up well, but about "foil" showing through and looking right, mate or shiny, opaque or transparent at will. A good finish has plenty to do with what's going on beneath the foil. More over, a truly good finish has to do with the transparency of the "foil" too. And only genuine gold (silver) can be rubbed to different degrees of transparency.

Metal leaf (imitation gold) was introduced in the market when some smart businessmen noticed that most people can't say the difference between distinguished, elegant and precious gold finish, and cheap brass foil finish, especially if the latest was very inexpensive and could fool the untrained eye from across the street. Much like plastic molding today, imitation gold opened a profitable and crowded avenue populated by less affluent and demanding people. It's worth mentioning that

1. Imitation gold is notoriously unresponsive to any sophisticate finish approach, for which reason it is always less expensive to go for genuine gold finishes when quality and accuracy is needed than try coping with metal leaf

2. Noticed that those gilded statues and cupolas are NOT finished in metal leaf ("foil finish") even though most by passers can't say the difference between gold and brass foil?

EllenAtHowards,

You put that wide plastic molding of yours at its truly best use. Gilded wood in the open does not last long
as a sig. If you were having a bookstore and wanted a large book for a sign, a large plastic book would still be your best choice for that purpose.