I couldn't have made a bigger mess!

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Emibub

Emibub

PFG, Picture Framing God
Joined
Nov 2, 2001
Posts
9,246
Loc
Centennial, CO, USA
No, I'm not talking about my eroneous decision to buy this shop again........

I put in new design tables a month or so ago. I had my brother just paint the tops with off white semi gloss. We decided not to put a finish on them until I had them in place in the shop. The first day I used the tables and a customer sat a readymade frame on top of it I knew it was going to scratch, which it did. It became apparent that I needed to put a finish on it, quickly, which I didn't. Just over a month and there are so many scratches and marks that it looks awful.

I took the time last night after closing to reapply three new coats of paint. I came in this morning to start applying the shellac. My brother isn't available to ask this weekend, I didn't want to use polyurethane so I asked at Home Depot what to use that would work with painted wood, dries quickly and wouldn't yellow. They suggested Zinzer's Bulls eye shellac. Says it dries clear and quickly and it won't yellow.

Well, it came put of the can yellow, I assumed it would dry clear. It left brushstrokes and also picked up every piece of fuzz available. I went ahead and did both tables and now of course they look like heck. I repainted over the shellac and of course I am now praying it won't shrink over it.

So, now, I have two freshly painted tables. I guess I have to let them sit overnight because I can't imagine even if i did find a new finish that it would be smart to apply with all the other coats I put down today. Of course I have to open tomorrow. I know the first thing I put on the table will leave a mark. At this point I guess I will have to wait and repaint, again, next weekend. I can't see any other way to do this since the finish will need time to dry, I figure on Sunday.

Any ideas out there on what type of shellac, varnish or finish that I should use now? I'm thinking tomorrow, I can keep foamcore over the top so nothing scratches and maybe I can reattempt to finish them tomorrow night. Any ideas on something fast drying would be helpful.

I am now seeing the error of my ways here. I guess a painted surface wasn't very practical. I probably will end up getting glass cut for the tops but right now I just can't see spending money I don't have. I really want to keep the white tops too, it just brightens up the place and has a really clean look.

Thanks for any thoughts.....
 
I forgot to add that it is also a beautiful fall day and I gave it up to do this so , now I am having a bit of a pout. Not to mention that the Broncos just lost their undefeated status by one point to the Chiefs.(I didn't watch it, just heard) What next? Locusts? If so, if they come in hoards, I'd say more than a couple might come to an untimely demise if they land on my freshly painted tables, what with the three coats of paint last night, and the one coat of shellac and then three more coats of paint this afternoon.....
 
Kathy,

Can we spell "paint stripper"??


Why did you want to paint a work table top in the first place? You will be sliding frames over it with screweyes sticking out the back, mirror hangers sticking out the back, and the first time you slide a pane of glass across it, the edge may very well peel a layer or two off if you aren't careful.

OK, now that I am done spanking your hand, why don't you apply low nap carpet or something fairly resilient that will stand up to the day-to-day brutality that work tables are subjected to? Heck, even leaving the table tops bare would have been alot better than painting them! I have used my work tables for 15 years carpeted and have had no problems with anything sticking in the carpet or things getting any damage to them. I cut mats on them, do the fitting on them, tear down on them, clean glass on them, and any other job that has to be done and have not damaged a single job yet. You DO have to keep the carpet clean but, before I bought a hand held vacuum, I simply lifted my regular vacuum up on the tables and vacuumed them. It works fine.

Now go to the blackboard and write 100 times, "I will not paint worktable tops again." :D

Class dismissed.

Framerguy
 
Since you can't very well cover them with WallBuddies or Mylar, I recommend white or "clear" Coroplast.

It's attractive, cheap, easy to clean and slightly cushioning. The dry-time is zero.

I haven't mentioned that before, have I?
 
<font size=1>Psssssst.....Tom, their my design tables, the front tables where I help my customers.</font size>

Although, I do consider the handslapping necessary, because it was obvious on the first day that they would scratch. But, I am just trying to fix what I started here. Any thoughts on a finish?
 
Do people ever set frames with broken glass down on your design counter?

If not, the carpet is an excellent idea. But if they do, the Coroplast will be esier to clean. Plus, the white stuff looks like most walls (except for the little corrugations.)
 
Coroplast for a design table? <font size=1>Ron are you on retainer with the Wallbuddies, mylar, corplast people?? Just asking.</font size>
 
See, the white painted look just is so important to the look of my shop. It is all about the "look". But the "look" got all scratched up. I am in a quandry. What to do? What to do?
 
Carpet would look great and be the cheapest and easiest, it's almost instant. Formica could also be put over the paint....or polyurethane can go over the paint without removing the shellac. Just rub it with steel wool until it is smooth.
 
Hi Kathy,
I see that you're talking about your design tables. I assume these are out in your customer area?
I use a large oak table which I'm adding an acrylic top to. Once you have refinished your top the way you want, you might consider it as a top surface since, while it will scratch, it won't break the way glass can, and it won't show the scratches that much.

Just my two cents worth ;)
 
The only other "acceptable" surface I could see here would be stainless steel, but I don't think it will go with the tables I had built. I am anal retentive about this point. As I said, it is all about the "look".

Are you guys suggesting that nothing will protect painted surfaces from damage?
 
Yes, Coroplast on a design counter.

Stop by the next time you're in Appleton and you can see what it looks like.

And no retainers here (except for the ones my kids got from the orthodontist.)

I'm not certain the roll of clear film I have is Mylar, I'm quickly running out of Coroplast without a new source in mind since Vicki Schober dropped it and I'd use and promote WallBuddies even if Darrell Keller hadn't offered to put my son through law school.

Edit: I have reconsidered and decided that Coroplast would be much too tacky for your shop.

Never mind.

[ 10-05-2003, 06:50 PM: Message edited by: Ron Eggers ]
 
I wonder if acrylic is cheaper than glass? That is a good idea.

Jo, My brother recommended polyurethane. It takes forever between coats so I opted for something "better". I guess I might have to wait and do the polyurethane next weekend if that is my only option. When he finds out I didn't use the polyurethane I can just see the way he will just shake his head.....
 
Originally posted by Ron Eggers:

Edit: I have reconsidered and decided that Coroplast would be much too tacky for your shop.

Never mind.
Click to expand...
I don't see it as "tacky" Ron, it just won't finish my "look". I don't have much else going for me here(like customers) so the "look" is all I have. Don't want to break cadence on that one. All **** would break loose then.......
 
Did you use latex enamel paint? The old fashioned enamel would probably do if you used 3 or 4 coats. You would probably have to strip it first though. I wonder what Mod Podge would do.

If you are just interested in an antique look cover it with muslin or a nice old looking table cloth.
 
Originally posted by Ron Eggers:
I'm quickly running out of Coroplast without a new source in mind since Vicki Schober dropped it
Click to expand...
On a side note here, one of my local supplers just put out a new catalogue and it now says "Moulding and Sign Supply". At first I was nervous that they were branching out because this is one of my local vendors that really needs to "focus" on what they are doing anyway. But after talking to the rep I was reassured they weren't going into the business of making signs but they are now carrying supplies for the sign making business. So, this means they have coroplast on hand for me to purchase. I am very excited about this. I do intend to use it as filler in frames but also as the work surface on my work table.

But, I'm thinikng not on the design counter...........
 
Actually Jo, I do have a thought of covering the tables with glass and putting something under the glass, or acrylic. I was thinking maybe fun graphics like old valentines, or old photos or something along those lines. I wonder if it owuld be distracting with customers art though.
 
Careful there, Emibub.

Coroplast intended for outdoor applications will probably have UV inhibitors (oddly-enough, a bad thing for filler board) and anti-oxidants that so-called archival Coroplast will not have.

They also normally will have additives to make them easier to paint.
 
Originally posted by Emibub:
<font size=1>Psssssst.....Tom, their my design tables, the front tables where I help my customers.</font size>
Click to expand...
<font size=1>Oh. Well, in that case, ........</font>Hrummph! Well, in that case, why not look for white carpeting? :D

There is a clear mar resistent polymer resin top coating that is used in alot of restaurants and bars (so I hear) that is poured on over whatever you want to have as a base coat and will build a thick layer that is clear and doesn't scratch nearly as easily as paint. One brand name that comes to mind is a product called "Build 50". You have to edge your tables with a trim strip that sticks up above the surface of the table as much as the thickness of the top finish that you desire. The neat thing about this finish is, with a little creative thinking, you could lay thin items on the table that reflect your work and pour this material over them so they are seen by your customers!

<font size=1>(A little enthusiastic response is in order at this time.)</font> "Oooooh, that would look really neat!!" <font size=1>(Thank you.)</font>

You could even embed sheets of coroplast in this resin and would never have to change them!! Kill 2 birds with one coat of resin, so to speak ............. a tough protective top coating AND that designer look of real coroplast!!

Framerguy
 
See, now I didn't have a clue about that Ron. I assumed coroplast was coroplast was corplast. I can just see me filling these conservation packages for years never knowing the difference. :eek: I'll have to read up on it. I was just glad to hear they have it. I've never used it before, just read what you guys have raved about. Thanks for the heads up.
 
I put polyurethane on a table to protect it. I waited til it had dried and time to cure. . . two or three coats too. Then I spilled some black paint on it. I promptly wiped it up, but it had gone through to the wood surface. So much for polyurethane.

I would think that hard wood would be hard on the art and the frames and would break glass in an instant. I can see dents all over the frames. I am for designing on coroplast. I think you need padding of some sort and coroplast would be nice and white and padded. If there is no source for corplast anymore, then take several layers of 3x and cover it with contact paper. You can wash that or replace it when it doesn't look nice anymore.
 
Tom, your idea with the polyurethane that pours is an excellent one, even embedding items in it. But, I bet it takes about 12 days to cure, and I have about twenty four hours. I should have pursued that avenue last week, I think I went 4 days without any new work coming in. Could have had plenty of time to cure then.......
 
MAN, it's really hard to keep up with such a fast pace thread!! Are all you people just sitting out there waiting for some poor schlup to post a question or what??? (Nothing personal meant by that, Kathy.)

If you want a hard surface on your tables, you could glue white Marlite or similar Formica type covering on them. Anything but paint! You are building a boat with a hole in it if you stick with the paint idea.

(Well, a design table with 3 legs may be a better comparison.)

FGII
 
I had a melamine surface before these tables and obviously it didn't scratch at all. I guess I didn't realize how hard a surface melamine really is. I might look into stainless steel for real, it would be cool. In the meantime, I guess I could use a coroplast top just laid on the top of the table. It is starting to make more sense.(Ron)

Well, I'm literally sitting here "watching paint dry" so I guess I'll go catch an hour of fall sunshine.....thanks for the ideas guys, keep em coming.
 
Kathy, (puff, puff)

Build 50 is a 2 part epoxy polymer resin and cures much quicker than you think. Once I catch my breath, I will get you some information on it and get back here pronto.

(Whew! This is much harder finger work than I counted on for a Sunday evening!!) :D

ME

Edit: Don't you DARE go out and play in the sun when we are all here bustin' our buns to find you a proper solution to your stupid screw-up!!! I expect return posts on each 5 minute mark if not quicker!! This is an EMERGENCY!! We are here for you! Don't dispair! Stick with that sinking ship! All for one .... etc. (Ya got that??)

[ 10-05-2003, 07:24 PM: Message edited by: Framerguy ]
 
Oh, good. I have a Coroplast allie.

I'm going to go watch trashy Sunday night television for a while.

Good luck with your mess, Kathy.

Just cover it with the Sunday paper until you get a definitive answer.
 
It is hard to keep up here Tom, I agree. Guess I just picked a time when others were here, Like being "live". Cool huh?

For the record, I don't mind being called a "poor schlub". And what is "marlite"?

Wow, 27 posts in just under an hour. Possible record?

[ 10-05-2003, 07:25 PM: Message edited by: Emibub ]
 
Don't worry Tom, I am here....that "sunshine" post was a good ten posts or so ago, I've gotten way beyond that now......
 
Originally posted by Emibub:
And what is "marlite"?
Click to expand...
If ya don't go out and play in the sun, I'll tell ya what Marlite is .................. later.

II
 
:eek:
:(
(Groan) See what I mean about keeping up??

I am still 3 posts behind!!

i

edit: and now I get this nasty message from framer bill!!

"Sorry, we can not process your request. The board administrator has enabled flood protection for this function. You must wait at least 120 seconds before trying this request again.

Note: Using your back button to return to the previous page may cause the data you were attempting to submit to be lost. Instead, you should use your browser's reload button when the time period has elapsed"

Ya just can't have anyfun anywhere anymore emibub!!

[ 10-05-2003, 07:32 PM: Message edited by: Framerguy ]
 
Originally posted by Framerguy:

Ya just can't have anyfun anywhere anymore emibub!!
Click to expand...
Yeah, their closing all the doors........aren't they Tom? They just keep trying to hold us back. One post per 120 seconds my butt!
 
I'm sitting here waiting watching the clock go tick tock tick tock. Tom told me to not go anywhere, so here I sit, I do as I'm told. Waiting, wondering, hoping..................dang, I think he ditched me.

[ 10-05-2003, 08:04 PM: Message edited by: Emibub ]
 
Yeah, it is nice and dry now Purp. Plus, it isn't like it is the first time some man has let me down somewhere...........said the bitter woman who just spent the past two hours watching paint dry.......
 
I like the look you are talking about. Have you thought of trying a glass company for used plate. Much cheaper than just regular plate. They may have some standing in the way for a really good price.
 
I was gone for a little while, and then here's a thread with 36 (and counting) replies!!

We kind of ran into the same problem, Kathy. We've got the bright white tabletops, too. A helpful friend applied LATEX paint over a LACQUER tabletop. Paint doesn't stick anymore. We went with a temporary solution of white masonite trimmed with a small 1/2 round moulding for trim.

It works OK but scratches easily. Might work for you for a short time. I'd lean toward either a white, short-nap carpet or glass. Trim it out with a small moulding and VOILA. It would be quicker and easier than stripper, sanding, repainting, etc.
Good Luck!

So is the paint dry yet???

Tony

[ 10-05-2003, 08:50 PM: Message edited by: AWG ]
 
Did you use latex or alkyd paint? Benjamin Moore makes a water based poly "STAYS CLEAR", won't yellow, dries FAST, can put multiple coats in just a few hours. Comes in Low Lustre or Gloss. It is used alot on hardwood floors, etc., so makes a good hard surface. I think this would remedy your problem for now, but anything sharp that is scraped across it will probably scratch. Formica would be another alternative, not that expensive. GOOD LUCK
 
Kathy - I would recommend formica - we have used marlite in the past for tabletops. (Marlite is mainly used as paneling for bathroom/kitchen walls) Although it comes in a variety of colors & patterns, I've only used the white. We use it in the photo lab as it is easy to keep clean, looks good and I haven't had to paint the walls since 1982 (I hate painting :D )
A couple of years ago, I made a new design table w/ the marlite top and the next day I had a customer come in w/ a large frame w/ broken glass which she placed face down on my new table top - scratched the bejezzus out of it :mad:
I learn by my mistakes
 
Yes, Purp, perhaps you are weird. Formica is very common in frame shops. We have it on ours, in both the front and back rooms. Nothing has ever been broken or damaged on it.
 
I used to work for a glass company and got two pieces of 1/2" smoke colored tempered glass from them that was cut wrong. They gave it to me. I use it for my design table. I put a piece of lace fabric between the two pieces of glass so you can't see the things I store underneath. It works great. If you are going to use glass on a table top, I would suggest tempered glass as it will not break in sharp shards. If it breaks, it will shatter like a car windshield into tiny pieces that won't cut.
 
We used grey Vertiface for the surface (on MDF) some time ago now, it still looks new and has been amazingly easy to keep clean.
 
Sharon,

Out of all the possible windows in a car, you picked the only one that ISN'T tempered!! :eek: A car windshield is called safety glass with a plastic layer laminated between 2 pieces of non-tempered glass. ;)

FGII
 
Formica is very common in frame shops. We have it on ours, in both the front and back rooms. Nothing has ever been broken or damaged on it.
Click to expand...
Grind it, stick it, and forget it.

[ 10-06-2003, 08:47 AM: Message edited by: lessafinger ]
 
Kathy, If you choose to go with Formica (plastic laminate), pick a product that has the same color core as surface. When the inevitable scratch occurs it will be much less noticeable.

For your "look" have you considered 1/4" or 3/8" plate milk glass (or translucent white acrylic)? If you price it out, you might be surprised at the economy. Neither will have the labor charges of Formica.

Susan, 1/4" plate is very difficult to break even when you've scored it with the intention of doing so. Dropping a bowling ball or frozen turkey on it might just do the trick, but normal design items in a frame shop wouldn't.

I would guess that you will also pour the remaining shellac over the head of the Home Depot employee that recommended its use over paint. At least talk with their supervisor about the misinformation. Who knows, you might get some compensation, or at least some free paint to cover up the shellac.
 
We have white-laminated table tops in the gallery, covered with 1/4" plate glass. It is durable and easy to keep clean.

I am planning to put some kind of wood on the tables, but the glass will still cover it.
 
You are right Framerguy and I stand corrected. The windshield is safety glass. Side and back windows are tempered. So is your patio doors. My advise stills hold however. If you are going to use glass on a display table, use tempered glass for safety. I really did work for a glass company. Just had a momentary brain fart.
 
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