How would you respond to someone who says....

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MatFramer

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
Joined
Sep 7, 2002
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345
Loc
Michigan
I don't like double mats and they think v-grooves are tacky. This is coming from my immediate store manager. She is not a framer, but does write up most of the orders.

Just curious how others would deal with this.

[ 11-10-2003, 06:29 PM: Message edited by: MatFramer ]
 
Some of us would agree about the v-grooves.

How to handle it might depend on whether she works for you or the other way around.
 
I suggest that you takes an approach along the lines of improved education, design skills and sales awareness could be the starting point.
 
Whenever I run into the Hate Second Mat Syndrome (commonly called CheapCharlie) I say simply, "Well, FACTS standards requires that the glass be two mats away from the artwork" They almost always say "OK" (probably afraid they might get busted or something...hehehehe)
 
Well, Mr./Ms. Matframer, your profile says that you are self employed. That makes you the boss. You could say, "see ya." Or you could say "this is how I want it done."

What I would say is, "as long as the piece is going to hang on your wall, you can choose 1 skinny mat with no embellishments all you want to. However, as long as someone else is paying for it, it will be framed in the very best manner for the piece being done, taking into account the budget within which you are working. If you're going to be writing up orders and designing pieces, these are the books you will read and study."

Then I'd hand her a stack of design books. If she read them she would stay. If not, she wouldn't.

You're the boss. It's your business. She may be doing it, but you're having it done.

You asked how I'd respond. This is it.

Betty
 
Every picture or object being framed will have it's own colors, style, mood, gender, personality, etc.

One of the reasons there is such a wide assortment of mats and mouldings available to us is so that we can capture the right framing for an individual piece.

Framing styles also come into play, like V groves, multiple mats,liners, fillets, fabric covered mats, hand painted mats, French mats, antiqued mats.

Frame styles also vary from metal mouldings to closed corner frames. Would your manager put a metal frame on a picture hanging in a mission style home?

Locking oneself into pre-determined, prejudiced, design mind set, is probably one of the biggest mistakes a framing salesperson can make.

The reason our business is called " Custom Framing " is because we are supposed to be able to make any frame OUR CUSTOMER wants.

If we decide we hate marbleized mats ( which I personally do )and our customer happens to think they are the greatest thing ever in matting, are we going to refuse to sell them to her/him? Absolutely not, we are going to find a way to make marbleized matting work successfully in a design, like using it as a center panel in a triple mat.

That's why we get the big bucks, we should have the ability to design to OUR CUSTOMERS TASTE, not ours.

Show this to your manager.

John
 
I think John said it very well for my understanding.However Maybe you could ask the designer if they like every piece of art that comes in to be framed? When they inevitably say no, then you might ask them what makes framing and matting any different? Their taste isn't what is being done it's the customers.
I have seen some art by well known artist that demands a very subtantial price and I wouldn't choose it on a dare ,but others love it,and I'll do my very best to compliment it to the taste of the person who does like it.Otherwise I might as well do something else,and maybe your designer should also.
A slightly different point of view was taught to my wife at a Needle Work Sseminar. The instructor said ,"Don't fall in love with your inventory".She was trying to point out that if you did all you would stock is what YOU liked and not every customer had the same taste. So I guess the converse of that statement is also true and it also works for desiging framing as well as stocking merchandise.Don't you think?
BUDDY

[ 11-10-2003, 09:02 PM: Message edited by: BUDDY ]
 
Originally posted by MatFramer:
I don't like double mats and they think v-grooves are tacky. This is coming from my immediate store manager...
Click to expand...
I'm not a big fan of v-grooves, but that aside, I absolutely agree with your store manager regarding double mats for custom framing; I, personally, don't like them ...

I much prefer an absolute minimum of three mats with spacers. ;)
 
We once had a salesman tell us that we needed to carry items for people with bad taste. They have money also!

"You might not like double mats, but most of our customers do! Show them as many choices as needed to make the customer happy."

Or if that does not work, you could always use the tact that my husbands boss used... "Cause I said so."
 
Matframer

You Might try explaining to your designer (manager) that a second mat will, in general increase her sales numbers: by 10 to 20 percent. What good design can not accomplish greed generally can...
a 10% increase in sales will result in more and larger raises. it is basic economics. v-groves will add a charge that is generally better then that 10% increase..
More money may sway her... a 1/2 inch mat boarder increase will give you another jump in bottom line.
I don;'t Know her but most people love money and want more.. ;)
 
This is about first, design; second, sales. If she is your store manager - in the business world she would be better equipped to sell more if her design skills are tuned up a notch!! And as it is in any service business we are using our skills to make our customers happy and we design and create around what their needs are and have to set aside personal preference. Very few customers that have items framed in my shop have the exact same taste as mine but I can design to suit their taste - that is the key.
Perhaps some design classes at the next frame show would inspire her!!?!! I know it always helps me to move to a different level or approach.

Good luck.

Roz
 
It really isn't her choice as to what the customer should like or not like; because, her job is to sell to the customer what would be right for the piece of art and the customer. It is an injustice to the customer to limit the choices they may have, be it a v-groove, double mat, choice of glass, etc. It is truly up to the customer to decide, not her. But who wants to make the customer happy anyway and why would you want them to come back and why would anyone want to make a larger profit.
 
I can't understand why anyone WOULDN'T like a double mat (at least; triples are always welcome
). Even with a basic white, doubling up that white looks much better than a single white any day, simply for the extra dimension it adds to the art.

Everyone else has hit this right on the head. She's designing for your customers, not for herself. It definitely sounds like she needs to take her tastes out of the equation, and frame for her customer's. "Custom framing" always meant, to me anyway, "framing FOR the customer." Not "It's okay to do as long as I, the designer, like it."

At the very least, if she's having objections to designing with double mats, is she designing with fillets?

[ 11-11-2003, 01:35 PM: Message edited by: AndyPan, CPF ]
 
Frame a picture for your wall display. Cut a double V groove in a white or off white rag mat. Make your first V groove 1/2" from the opening. Make your second V groove 1 1/4" from the opening. Make your top and sides 4" and the bottom 5". Use a simple, clean lined silver or gold frame. The picture should be a portrait photograph, ideally in black and white.

Do the same again only frame your sample pictures with double and triple mats. Pick frames that go well with the sample pictures. Do this from your sample wall, not your in stock mouldings or scraps.

Whatever goes on your sample wall should be the best you can do for the picture being framed, no matter what the cost.

Make a sample with a fabric covered mat with a wood fillet.

Make several shadow box samples, one would have double mats to hold the glass away from the object. The other would be an all fabric traditional shadowbox.

Hang the samples of your framing skills on the wall near the custom framing display area.

It won't matter what your " manager " likes or dislikes. The customers will tell HER what they want.

John

[ 11-11-2003, 01:45 PM: Message edited by: JRB ]
 
To everyone who responded:

Thank you so much.

The big problem is that I work for her. She is not a framer and has stated that she has no interest in doing framer. I would say she really is in the wrong job. However, she does get a paycheck at the end of the week (I do too, for now). When I signed up on this site, I did have my own shop.

I am thinking about getting Vivian's video on design and sharing it with her. Maybe a Christmas present to myself. hehehehhe

Ellen, Thanks for that bit of "FACTS". I am going to go look it up and print it out. Just to have on hand, of course!! :D

Printmaker, I absolutly agree. Triple mats with spacers are the greatest (or a fil-ay, or was that fill-it). :D I just wish I could get her to see beyond a 2" single mat on everything we do.

Jill, I have thought all day about this and how to gently explain it to her. I think I may have found a possible solution. We have another store who has a framer running it. I am going to go have chit chat with her.......oh, just about general framing stuff......like no 2" mats anymore because we can increase profits by ........... I hope this works. Nothing like doing it second handed, but it is a thought.

Roz, You are so right on the mark with some design classes. I think I shall watch for something in the area and bring it up to her boss. I think if her boss suggested it to her, she would be more open to it.

Andy, I agree with you 100%. However, I don't think she knows what a fillet is. I said something about that one day and it drew a kind of blank look.

JRB, That is an excellent suggestion. She does want some things done for the store. I haven't had time to get to that. However, I think I am going to make some serious time.

I have 3 framing sales reps (One of which is one of Jim Richards reps, I might add) that are behind me on this one. All 3 were hoping that I could bring some quality into this shop because they need it badly. I had high hopes, but I am afraid they are slowly dying. I finally told this manager that I was going to do the inside framing the way it should be done regardless of how an order is written. We are responsible, we better be doing it right.

You have all helped me for now. I have some good ideas to chew on. I am printing this thread so I can make notes on it. Some days I think the BB's are in a better spot than I am right now, and that is sad, really sad.

Thanks again!!!

Candy
 
You mean you have someone in charge of sales who has no design experience and has no interesting getting it! I think you have bigger problems here. This person is bad for the business. She is killing the store's sales. I think that her manager needs to be appraised of the situation and have a talk with her. Sending her to a design class may be a solution but only if she is reseptive to changing her ways. If not, then for the good of the business, it might be best to let her go.
 
I'm sure there are plenty of employees out there that would love to send their bosses to design classes, or charm school or even to let them go, but - somehow - I don't see that happening.

That's the biggest problem with working for someone else - you often suspect your boss is an idiot.

At least when you're self-employed, you know for certain the boss is an idiot.
 
Anne, I have worked with many spouses - about 22, I think, since I opened my shop.

It just happens that mine isn't one of them.
 
Posted by Ron: "you often suspect your boss is an idiot."

I don't suspect, I just haven't verbalized it yet. Thanks for doing that for me!!! :D :D :D

Ann, you hit the real problem right on the head!!! Unfortunately, the company is big enough to have to deal with the politics.

My plan right now is to get my certification later this winter. Then I am going to head out back into the world and find a job that might appreciate me.
 
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