How would you do this?

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katman

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Joined
Jan 5, 2002
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annapolis, md., usa
This framer wannabe could use a little guidance from the masters.

Not sure what to call this hand made piece other than a big prayer doily. It is about 3 feet by 4 feet. Off-white. When you lay it on a dark background you can see the creator (of the piece or maybe THE CREATOR) made The Lord's Prayer part of the design. The piece is probably about 30-years old. Pretty good shape.

I knew I would eventually have to start doing needlepoint and other fabric pieces. I've done a couple small projects. Bled a little from the stitching activity but managed to keep the blood off the art.

Now I am really interested in the Attach EZ gizmo and may have to get one if the client agrees to my price for doing this job. Have to work up the price first and I ain't gonna work cheap on this one even though she has been a real good customer.

Here's how I was thinking of proceeding. Mount a piece of dark fabric to an AF board. Probably bring the fabric around to the back side of the mount board so it can be tightly stretched. Sew, or Attach EZ, the "doily" to the fabric. I think it will have to have quite a few anchor points. It can't be stretched much without distorting the design and it will have a little bit of weight.

I'm thinking I would probably put some padding behind the dark fabric. Haven't decided on a moulding yet. I'm thinking I'll look for something that will be a fairly shallow box, maybe with a nice enhancer to dress the face.

I expect I'll have to add some rigidity to the monted piece so maybe I will attach the mounting board to coroplast.

Probably will end up using acrylic to keep the weight down.

Sooooo...am I moving in the right direction?

Is this a job for Attach EZ or should I kust keep an extra pint of blood around to replenish my supply after I stab myself a few hundred times?
 
Here's what I would probably do. (That doesn't mean it's the only way or even the best way. It's just MY way.)

I'd probably use a suede matboard, unless you need some funky color that's not available. You eliminate a step or two.

I'd cut the board to size, along with a piece of Artcare rag and and attach the two together to prevent shifting while you're working on it. Position the doily exactly where you want it, and stick push-pins (the ones with the big plastic "knobs") where you want to fasten it down. You're putting holes through the suede matboard and the fome, but through the openings in the doily. Don't go putting new holes in the doily - there are enough there already.

You're right - it'll take a bunch of 'em.

I would use the Attach-Ez and, once you get to that point, it'll go very fast. Even if you use needle and thread, the holes are already there, so just remove the pins one-at-a-time and insert your fasteners or stitches.

If you use the Attach-Ez, allow for a little practice time. With the holes already in the board, it's unlikely you'll bend any needles, but you'll want a few extras around just in case.

The Attach-Ez is designed to make its own holes, but I like to use the pins to position the doily, so I just use those holes for the fasteners.
 
Didn't even think about the suede (or maybe linen) but it sure would save a lot of time in both shopping at the fabric store and in assembly!
 
Whether you use needle/thread or Attach-EZ, matboard would require some heavy poking for all of those stitches. Tha means sore fingers, or abused MicroTach needles.

Here's another suggestion:

Make a strainer (mitered corners -- not a stretcher) of 1x2 or similar wood. If maximum protective value is important, seal it with water-borne polyurethane varnish, or cover it with foil tape.

Stretch a piece of fiberglass (not metal) window screening, available from any good hardware store, over the strainer. Staple it in place as though you were stretching a canvas painting.

Over the tightly mounted screen, stretch the fabric of your choice. If you want to pad it, put polyfill between the screen and the fabric.

Attach the doily to the mounting assembly, which consists of (top to bottom): fabric, optional padding, fiberglass screen, all secured to the strainer.

This kind of mounting assembly would provide good overall support for the doily. You can easily sew through it, and you can easily poke the Attach-EZ fasteners through it. And it's relatively inert & chemically stable.

Attach-EZ has a few benefits over thread:

1. Speed, of course.

2. Each Attach-EZ fastener is independent of the others. If sewn in a basting style, the continuous line of thread would constantly expand & contract, which could weaken the thread over time, and/or make some attachment points tighter than others. And if the thread breaks, all is lost. Tying off each stitch independently would take a looong time.

3. The smallest 1/4" MicroTach Attach-EZ fasteners would provide plenty of strength, and would allow a generous, yet consistent, amount of "give" in each attachment. To achieve the same result with thread, each stitch would have to be carefully "looped" to a consistent looseness.

4. Because of their "T" shape, each fastener would hold more area than two or three closely-placed stitches of thread. That would provide more gentle support for the doily.

The more I use Attach-EZ, the more I like it. Not just from the standpoint of speed & convenience, but for its preservation value, too.
 
katman,

If that piece is totally crocheted, and is as large as you mentioned, it doesn't matter what you use to fasten it onto your backing board, you will probably have sagging problems with it unless you use more than just anchoring points across the top of the doiley. With that much thread and the open style that is typical of crochet, you probably have a couple pounds of thread on your hands! That is going to require some support throughout the doiley rather than across the top only.

You may have already figured this into your job but I thought I'd mention it anyway.

So, if you place about 80 anchoring points across the top, then you can do the same thing over again every foot or so vertically and that should give you a fully righteous baptism in the fun world of mounting fabric "art". :eek:

Good luck.

Framerguy
 
Originally posted by Framerguy:
...it doesn't matter what you use to fasten it onto your backing board, you will probably have sagging problems with it unless you use more than just anchoring points across the top of the doiley....
Click to expand...
Absolutely. Any textile that size (except maybe a rug) would need several lines of support, over its whole length. But a doily of those dimensions would require dozens -- maybe a hundred or more -- fastening points.
 
Exactly what Jim said. The one I did that size had pretty much every place you could stitch to sew down. The reverse side of the mounting board looked like some kind of embroidery piece when I was done. :eek: I kept having to tack more places down to keep it from sagging or creeping.
 
I would mount a piece of linen fabric to a sheet of four ply rag mat board, use Yes Paste. I would place the doily in the correct position on the mounted fabric and sew it in place using cotton thread that matches the doily. A piece such as this is going to be striking on it's own, it does not need padding behind it. Why get artsy craftsy with it? Also, sewing it to mat board will give it more support.

I would sew it in rows going across it about every ten percent all the way to the bottom of it. I would NOT use attach EZ or any other gimmicky way of attaching it. Take your time, use the proper materials and you will never have to worry about it.

I do like Jim's idea about using screening material as a foundation, I've never heard of doing that before and I look forward to trying it on something. Since the idea is new to me, I would not use it until I experimented with it a little. I am more comfortable with the old proven methods I have used for years. They work for me.

John
 
What am I doing wrong? I tried the attachit guns and sent them back. I found that the tabs were too long and did not hold the crochet tight enough. I tried two mat for additional thickness or a mat and foam core. I still felt the crochet was too loose.
 
Sharon: You were probably not doing anything wrong other than one very crucial step in the instructions. Because of the varing thickness of matboard, substrait and the materials you wish to mount, the fixed length of the Attach-Ez fastners do not always "fit". In other words, they may be too long, even the 1/4". It is then suggested that you use a tape like filmoplast or artists tape to tighten the fastner from the back of the board. Jim - gimmicky or not this tool save time. Time is money, money is what most framers need more of. This is the PERFECT job for an Attach-Ez. I do agree with a couple of the posts that with a piece this size wether you are sewing or using an Attach-Ez don't skimp on the rows to hold this piece.
 
Originally posted by John Richards:
...Jim - gimmicky or not this tool save time. Time is money, money is what most framers need more of. This is the PERFECT job for an Attach-Ez...
Click to expand...
I think John Baker's characterization of Attach-EZ as "Gimmicky" doesn't do it justice. It's a good and useful tool for jobs such as the one this thread is about. It's not a panacea, but it's not a gimmick, either.

I guess ATG was once called "gimmicky", too. Times change. Methods and materials improve & adapt.

One big benefit of Attach-EZ is that the "T" of each nylon fastener distributes the mounting stress over several threads of the textile's weave -- not just one or two, like sewing with thread. Having that added support lessens the stress on the weave and makes a better mount for the long term. (Caveat: Attach-EZ is not intended for use on very-fine-woven or brittle fabrics, where the oversized needle could cut instead of separating the weave's threads.)

Several have complained in previous threads about the fasteners being made of nylon, but nobody yet has given any reason why the molded (not extruded) nylon fasteners should not be used. If there's a reason, let's hear it.
 
John is a man known for having strong opinions and also for not being reluctant to express them. That's fine in my book and I appreciate his thoughts on this project as well as the suggestions offered by everyone else. I can't opine on the Attach Ez cause I haven't actually seen or used one. I should have one to play with on Tuesday. It does appear to me to potentially be a real time saver on a project like this. Plus, I'm not the best at pushing a needle and thread. There will be a lot of attachment points on this so maybe a new tool will help me achieve a better result.
 
Sorry, I did not mean to get everyones feathers all ruffled. I have never seen, nor have I ever used an Attach EZ. I really don't have much interest in it at all. Jim and John Richards seem to think it is a fine tool, so it probably is. If I ever see one at a trade show, perhaps I will change my mind on it. It does seem to be a little gimmicky to me, but then, I have never used one.

John
 
No ruffled feathers down at this end of the country, John.

My feelings on the Attach-EZ aren't even known to many people other than my opinions of how it was originally presented to the Grumble. The lack of answers to questions yet to be answered made me feel that it was being presented without thorough testing data to back it up. I still feel that way.

Contrary to what many think, I would probably try one of the guns such as the Micro-tach guns sold by Avery for around $25.00 if I thought it would be the in the best interest of my customers to do so. The price of the Attach-EZ kit is far and away too expensive for components that are readily available for a fraction of the price from any Avery distributor. That is my opinion and there are those who will jump my case about that. I don't mind one bit. We all make our own decisions based on how we feel about products and on our budget restrictions. I don't begrudge anyone buying one of these kits if they choose to do so.

But I am not convinced yet that anything made out of a high strength material such as nylon, even in the small sizes that are available, will not harm the threads that are used in most of the crocheted pieces and other fine fabric materials that we are framing for our customers.

When you consider that, if the T's are a bit too long you have to go back and tension each one of them and tape them down, I question exactly how much time you are actually saving over sewing.

And who is to say that the weight of the crocheted piece won't put constant tension on these tabs and eventually loosen them from under the Framer's tape or whatever you are using to hold them in place. There is so much talk about pressure sensitive adhesives not holding over an extended period of time and that they should not be used for anything that requires a permanent hold but now it is an accepted thing to use pressure sensitive adhesive tape to keep these tabs tight. Aren't we contradicting our own recommendations when it suits our means?

And, if they are a bit too short and you force them through the foam board or matboard to make them fit, how much damage are you doing to the threads in that case? With thread you can tension it just consistently and have no doubts about whether you are doing the job without placing undo stress on the threads or fabric being mounted.

Shouldn't we be comparing apples to apples in all cases?

Framerguy
 
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