Help How to square a cutter using mat boards

[kuluchicken]

I have a wall cutter I have always squared using glass. I'm not sure whether the glass sheets I have now are rounded or what is happening, but the long and the short of it is that after three frustrating days of trying to figure what is straight and what is square and my normal method not working, I believe that the sanest thing to do is to set it up by cutting mat boards.

If one cuts a board and flips it clockwise each time, which cut that is off do you look at...I presume you cut the fourth and then flip it once more so that you see the angle between the first and the fourth cut and then set the arm to 25% of the difference.... or is this wrong and is there a better way.

I know this is a crude way of doing it, but it's the only option left. I use my wall cutter to square up my mat boards so it has to be set up perfectly.

Any help would be much appreciated.

 

[MIK]

I always use the glass method...but first I check to see if the glass is square by measuring the diagonal. For quick checks of the cutter, I use a framing square. Plus make sure the cutter head is not wobbling.

 

[Larry Peterson]

Why not use a tool designed for squaring instead of materials that may or may not be square?

You don't see carpenters using a sheet of glass to make sure the wall joists are square.

A good carpenters square is pretty accurate but I check mine with an engineer'square

to make sure the carpenters square is accurate. Then ones I use are accurate to 0.00063" - http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=11175

I use the engineer's square with my vnailer. It's too small for setting up your wall cutter but is big enough to check your carpenter's square.

 

[Jeff Rodier]

Trim 4 sides of a board. Now cut a 1" strip and fold it in half comparing the width of the 2 ends. Now flip the board so the top is in the bottom position with the trimmed end still at the right side (not clockwise/counter clockwise) and cut another 1" strip and fold the strip in half to compare the width of the ends. If the top is wider you need to lower the left support. If the bottom is wider you need to raise the left support. This works best with a full sheet of board rather than scrap.

 

[kuluchicken]

I always use the glass method...but first I check to see if the glass is square by measuring the diagonal. For quick checks of the cutter, I use a framing square. Plus make sure the cutter head is not wobbling.

I've used that method for many years too, there just seems to be many different dynamics at work now that I can't put my finger on. I get the glass in large sheets and have always cut a line, flipped it and re-cut etc until it's perfect. Either the glass I have isn't cut perfectly straight or my cutter arm isn't anymore. I've used many 'straight' edges and nothing seems straight anymore, so that isn't helping.

I have 3 different carpenters squares and two plastic ones. That method doesn't work either. I don't think mine are precision enough and too short. I tried that method but it seems perfect but not when I cut.

Thanks for the response.

 

[kuluchicken]

Why not use a tool designed for squaring instead of materials that may or may not be square?

You don't see carpenters using a sheet of glass to make sure the wall joists are square.

A good carpenters square is pretty accurate but I check mine with an engineer'square

to make sure the carpenters square is accurate. Then ones I use are accurate to 0.00063" - http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=11175

I use the engineer's square with my vnailer. It's too small for setting up your wall cutter but is big enough to check your carpenter's square.

Thanks Larry, as mentioned above I have three carpenters squares. Unfortunately I don't have an engineering square. Mine do differ ever so slightly which would obviously equate to a huge error when cutting over sized boards. Even if they were accurate I think that they are just too short. I tried that method but it didn't work well either.

Appreciate the response.

 

[kuluchicken]

Trim 4 sides of a board. Now cut a 1" strip and fold it in half comparing the width of the 2 ends. Now flip the board so the top is in the bottom position with the trimmed end still at the right side (not clockwise/counter clockwise) and cut another 1" strip and fold the strip in half to compare the width of the ends. If the top is wider you need to lower the left support. If the bottom is wider you need to raise the left support. This works best with a full sheet of board rather than scrap.

Thanks Jeff. When I trim the 1" strip, would that be by very first cut or the fourth cut?

With my cutter the cutting edge is on the left hand side. Would that alter what you're saying at all?

Thanks for the help.

 

[Jeff Rodier]

Cut all four sides before beginning the test cut. You just don't want to start with any factory edges on the board since you are trying to square your cutter. Our stuff has the cutting blade on the right of the hold down bar so reverse it since you are on the opposite side of the world from us.

 

[Larry Peterson]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that BOTH the left and right side of the wall cutter needs to be square. If you just square one side and then cut a board in the middle it might not be square because the board isn't sitting flat in the bottom channel.

After I square one side with my carpenters square (which at 24" isn't too short), I lay my 6' aluminum ruler on the bottom channel and adjust the other side so the ruler is perfectly flat in the channel and then check for square again on both sides.

 

[kuluchicken]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that BOTH the left and right side of the wall cutter needs to be square. If you just square one side and then cut a board in the middle it might not be square because the board isn't sitting flat in the bottom channel.

After I square one side with my carpenters square (which at 24" isn't too short), I lay my 6' aluminum ruler on the bottom channel and adjust the other side so the ruler is perfectly flat in the channel and then check for square again on both sides.

I've tried squaring it with a carpenter's square, but alas, it wasn't good enough. Mine are also 24". I wish I had at least 40" long that I knew was accurate .

My wall cutter has one solid base that runs all the way through. That's what I'm battling with. I'm not sure whether it is still perfectly flat. I have 4 different metal rulers that are 40" long, but I'm not convinced that they are perfectly straight either. I get different results from them. I also have a long glass T-square etc etc. Nothing seems to be perfectly consistent?

That's why I reckoned that I need complete accuracy for the mat boards, so literally cutting them until it squares them consistently perfectly is probably the sanest way to go at this stage.

Thanks for the help.

 

[kuluchicken]

Cut all four sides before beginning the test cut. You just don't want to start with any factory edges on the board since you are trying to square your cutter. Our stuff has the cutting blade on the right of the hold down bar so reverse it since you are on the opposite side of the world from us.

I'll try that, thanks Jeff.

 

[Larry Peterson]

My wall cutter has one solid base that runs all the way through.

I have a Fletcher 3100 where each side of the base is adjustable separately. I guess I'm lucky with getting mine adjusted.

OTOH, since we all use a 1/8" allowance (not sure what you use down under : 1/8" = 32mm), being off a minor (+- 1/32-1/16" ) bit isn't going to make much of a difference.

 

[kuluchicken]

I have a Fletcher 3100 where each side of the base is adjustable separately. I guess I'm lucky with getting mine adjusted.

OTOH, since we all use a 1/8" allowance (not sure what you use down under : 1/8" = 32mm), being off a minor (+- 1/32-1/16" ) bit isn't going to make much of a difference.

It just becomes a problem I find when one cuts multiple windows. I recently cut two boards, one had about 36 title bars and 36 windows and the other one was a drop smaller. It was a nightmare to do a good job and took much longer than it should have as a result.

I suppose I'm a bit of a perfectionist. like I suppose we all are

 

[Prospero]

Get a big sheet of board. Put in the cutter as if you were going to make a cut in the middle. Bring the blade down and make a short cut in the top edge. Then slide it to the bottom and make another short cut at the bottom edge. Then flip the whole board so it is facing the other way, but still with the same edge to the bottom.
Locate the blade in the bottom cut and then lock the board down. Slide the cutter up and see if the blade locates in the top cut. If it is out of square it won't. Make another short cut at the top and note how far the two cuts are apart. This gives you some indication of how far you need to tweak it. Basically you need to spilt the difference. Make an adjustment, test again and see if the gap diminishes. If it gets bigger you are tweaking the wrong way.

 

[Lance E]

You could perhaps get someone to cut a 36*56 from a 60*40 on a CMC and use that?

 

[ARTY]

Just give the agents in Auckland a ring and they should only be to happy to come and adjust the beast or even the sales rep??? Job done.

 

[kuluchicken]

Thanks Peter. I'm ordering a whole lot of over sized board today to 'play around' with. I tired that with smaller boards but it's not accurate enough then.

Your suggestion Lance is also great. I just don't really know any framers around here, I could here from Larson Juhl when I place an order if I could pay them for something like that.

Thanks Arty, it's just my last resort. There are so many variables at work. In the past in SA I've had the technician struggle for hours and leave without having solved a problem and them my husband would resolve them. I think one gets to know your own machines better, although if I'm truly unable to get it to perform well, I'll definitely have to try that as an option.

Cheers

Michele

 

[Lance E]

LJ has John, John, Brian & Kate that would all be of assistance I'm sure, or if you wanted a road-trip to Hamilton we'd happily cut your 40*60 on our CMC for you but there is bound to be someone closer.

 

[kuluchicken]

LJ has John, John, Brian & Kate that would all be of assistance I'm sure, or if you wanted a road-trip to Hamilton we'd happily cut your 40*60 on our CMC for you but there is bound to be someone closer.

That is so kind of you Lance, really appreciate it. I don't know why in my mind I had you in Nelson, you're not too far away

I spoke with Bryan today and asked him about cutting me a big square if I pay for it. He wasn't keen and said that that's not the way to go...I may still end up doing that, think it was a brilliant idea.

He said that I must square it with a mat board as Peter suggested. I've ordered some oversize boards to play with this week-end. I'll be so relieved if I can finally get it squared up well.

Thank you for extending your help so freely always, much appreciated.

Cheers

Michele

 

[Baer Charlton]

You will only use a large framing square a few times in a decade...... but every time
you do, you will think it was money well spent.

There is a fast way to check if your framing square is a true 90 degrees.

Draw a base line the length of your 60"
now lay the square on cornered to a center point on the line. Draw the vertical line.

Holding the pencil point on the original start point for the vertical, flip the square
over to the other side and align the corner to the pencil. Draw another vertical line.

IF the steel square is true 90, the vertical lines will be one. If you have a "V".... you
can tune the square by placing a "cold point" chisel in the inside corner, near the edge
and hitting it hard with a steel hammer - causing a dimple. Draw new lines to check.
If you need more - dimple the other side.

IF you need more... place the point back in the adjustment dimples and make them
deeper or larger. Never make a second set.

 

[kuluchicken]

You will only use a large framing square a few times in a decade...... but every time
you do, you will think it was money well spent.

There is a fast way to check if your framing square is a true 90 degrees.

Draw a base line the length of your 60"
now lay the square on cornered to a center point on the line. Draw the vertical line.

Holding the pencil point on the original start point for the vertical, flip the square
over to the other side and align the corner to the pencil. Draw another vertical line.

IF the steel square is true 90, the vertical lines will be one. If you have a "V".... you
can tune the square by placing a "cold point" chisel in the inside corner, near the edge
and hitting it hard with a steel hammer - causing a dimple. Draw new lines to check.
If you need more - dimple the other side.

IF you need more... place the point back in the adjustment dimples and make them
deeper or larger. Never make a second set.

Thanks for that advice Baer. I have a woodworkers squares that are about 15-16" (40cm) which is rather short. I presume the framers square is longer? If it's the same thing I presume a metal rule is used to lengthen the line.

I'll check mine out this week-end, thanks

 

[Lance E]

If you want the best skware ask your glass supplier where to get them - ebonite ones are brilliant and won't damage anything. I'd be inclined to go with Peter & Bryan's thoughts but you've noted that is not working for you hence my suggestion.

 

[kuluchicken]

If you want the best skware ask your glass supplier where to get them - ebonite ones are brilliant and won't damage anything. I'd be inclined to go with Peter & Bryan's thoughts but you've noted that is not working for you hence my suggestion.

Great suggestion, thanks Lance

 

[kuluchicken]

I FINALLY managed to square up my machine.

My problem was that I was using a carpenters square as an initial starting point and then fine tuning by either cutting glass or mat boards and flipping it on the same base and then 'fine tuning' it according to that and then checking for accuracy by trying to square up a mat boards, which weren't even remotely square.

I finally found out that the latter half was the wrong procedure, after cutting many boards, measuring and resetting etc. My arm has one solid base used for the setting (can't be set individually). In the middle where they join it seems to have shifted slightly. So to cut a long story short, yes Larry, the carpenters square is a good method , especially with the quirk of my cutter. So if I only use the right hand side to square up my boards it squares up the boards beautifully now.

Once I set it up I once again tried the method of cutting a board on top and bottom and flipping it and repeating the procedure in line with the bottom cut, and it's way off square according to that method (which is actually under normal circumstances a brilliant method to use).

So thanks so much for helping me everyone, it was most kind of you.

Cheers

Michele

 

[Lance E]

Thanks for the update.