How tight should a canvas print be stretched?
- Thread starter john1
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CAframer
SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Refer to CCI Note #10/9. Here is a pertinent excerpt:
A painting can have varying degrees of tension, from slack to taut to tight. Ideally, a painting should be "just taut" upon its stretcher; that is, the canvas should be held under minimal, even tension. Tautness in a painting will vary, depending on such factors as the materials present in the painting, the dimensions of the painting, and the environmental conditions surrounding the painting.
Slight slackening and tightening of the painted canvas in response to seasonal fluctuations is to be expected and allowed. These conditions should not be treated by keying out.
A painting that exhibits slackness in the canvas should be observed over a period of one year to determine if the slackness is a temporary response to climatic change, especially to fluctuations in RH.
Minimal keying out may be considered for paintings in which overall slackness is observed throughout an entire annual cycle.
When hanging vertically, a painting that is slack will usually bulge at its centre and may also sag slightly along its lower edge. The object of keying out is to remove slight overall bulging and to bring the painting back into plane.
While overall slackness can often be corrected by keying out, local distortions, such as isolated bulges or draws in the corners, require skilled conservation treatment and should not be treated by keying out.
Tight framing or warping of the stretcher or backing board can cause an overall out-of-plane distortion of the canvas. This distortion may be reduced simply by improving the framing method (see CCI Notes 10/8, Framing a Painting, and CCI Notes 10/10, Backing Boards for Paintings on Canvas).
Slight slackening and tightening of the painted canvas in response to seasonal fluctuations is to be expected and allowed. These conditions should not be treated by keying out.
A painting that exhibits slackness in the canvas should be observed over a period of one year to determine if the slackness is a temporary response to climatic change, especially to fluctuations in RH.
Minimal keying out may be considered for paintings in which overall slackness is observed throughout an entire annual cycle.
When hanging vertically, a painting that is slack will usually bulge at its centre and may also sag slightly along its lower edge. The object of keying out is to remove slight overall bulging and to bring the painting back into plane.
While overall slackness can often be corrected by keying out, local distortions, such as isolated bulges or draws in the corners, require skilled conservation treatment and should not be treated by keying out.
Tight framing or warping of the stretcher or backing board can cause an overall out-of-plane distortion of the canvas. This distortion may be reduced simply by improving the framing method (see CCI Notes 10/8, Framing a Painting, and CCI Notes 10/10, Backing Boards for Paintings on Canvas).
more_so
SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
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I mostly agree with the CCI piece, even though it goes against the popular common wisdom in my locality.
Before I completely threw stretching out the window in favor of glued-to-Gator technology, I found that the canvases I had stretched rather minimally seemed to be the most stable. In particular modestly stretched canvases did not go horribly slack when when we turned on the swamp coolers in our ordinarily arid climate, whereas bongo-drum level stretching tended to go limp.
Other than how tight, the most important thing is having sticks that are rigid enough and braced enough not to bend. Oversize sticks are worth the dough, the wider the better. With oversize sticks I feel it is reasonable to assemble non-adjustable, miter cornered stretching bars exactly like a frame, but with somewhat rounded corner points.
Before I completely threw stretching out the window in favor of glued-to-Gator technology, I found that the canvases I had stretched rather minimally seemed to be the most stable. In particular modestly stretched canvases did not go horribly slack when when we turned on the swamp coolers in our ordinarily arid climate, whereas bongo-drum level stretching tended to go limp.
Other than how tight, the most important thing is having sticks that are rigid enough and braced enough not to bend. Oversize sticks are worth the dough, the wider the better. With oversize sticks I feel it is reasonable to assemble non-adjustable, miter cornered stretching bars exactly like a frame, but with somewhat rounded corner points.
Rob Markoff
PFG, Picture Framing God
Have you priced 1 1/2" gator?????
The better thing to do would be to use 1/4" MDF over a built up side. Glue up the pieces, let them dry and sand flush. Then you can glue up the face and either glue the sides as well or then wrap then conventionally with corner folds. The problem with gluing the sides comes when it is time to deal with the corners.
I think that most framers (myself included) frame most canvas panels we mount using conventional framing techniques like liners and frames with rabbets.
The better thing to do would be to use 1/4" MDF over a built up side. Glue up the pieces, let them dry and sand flush. Then you can glue up the face and either glue the sides as well or then wrap then conventionally with corner folds. The problem with gluing the sides comes when it is time to deal with the corners.
I think that most framers (myself included) frame most canvas panels we mount using conventional framing techniques like liners and frames with rabbets.
Kirstie
PFG, Picture Framing God
We have been selling more floater frames lately and are still using conventional stretching methods with these. I had one that was about 8" x 10" the other day and with stretching and floater it was quite expensive. No problem for the customer, but I wondered if we could have done it for less by mounting the canvas, but then we would have had a more labor intensive build up.
BTW, Rob, what do you use to create black sides inside your floaters?
I am not comfortable with a glue- down of any canvas except the occasional giclee, and this is usually at the customer's request in order to save money. Have standards changed?
BTW, Rob, what do you use to create black sides inside your floaters?
I am not comfortable with a glue- down of any canvas except the occasional giclee, and this is usually at the customer's request in order to save money. Have standards changed?
Jeff Rodier
SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Lamin-All from McDonald Photo Products a division of Tara Materials is formulated for use with photos and printed canvas. It can be applied wet or dry and heat activated. Digital prints on canvas will continue to sag over time if stretched.
I mount all of the printed canvas that I produce as well as hundreds of canvas prints for a photo lab and portrait photographer. I use Laminall on all of them and have never had a failure. I've been using it since the 80s' for all fabric mounting and now printed canvas.
http://www.taramaterials.com/Accessories/ProductCategory.aspx?path=002012
I mount all of the printed canvas that I produce as well as hundreds of canvas prints for a photo lab and portrait photographer. I use Laminall on all of them and have never had a failure. I've been using it since the 80s' for all fabric mounting and now printed canvas.
http://www.taramaterials.com/Accessories/ProductCategory.aspx?path=002012
more_so
SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
- Joined
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- Posts
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I'm with Jeff on the glue thing, have never suffered the return of a glued canvas or even had a bubble or anything. Unlike my gallery wrapping pals.
I cut a piece of Gator that is about 1/8" smaller than the canvas on three sides, and about a foot longer on one side. I tape up the full length of the canvas on the long side so it is overhanging the other three sides by 1/8" inch, and maybe more on the side opposite the taped side.
Then roll the canvas up on a tube and park it on the long stretch of Gator. Roll out about 0.4 ounces of glue per square foot on the Gator, remembering that a dry 3/16" x 8" foam roller will hold about 3 ounces that will never make it on to the Gator, you gotta prime the roller for the first print in a working session, just by pouring out extra glue. Try not to roll over the very edges until the inner sections of the Gator are pretty even, avoids big globs of glue on the sides of the Gator.
Roll out the print while pressing down and also tugging against the taped side. If you've got a vacuum press use it now, otherwise run your cotton-gloved hand over the print for a few minutes, piercing any bubbles that can't be pushed out the sides (you probably won't have any) with a hat pin. The reason for the 1/8" overhang is so you don't drag glue onto the face of the print while pressing it down, but have a wet paper towel handy to wipe up any glue that does get onto the surface of the print, and do it soon.
If there's a lot of canvas overhanging the sides, trim it with a Xacto or utility knife, otherwise rippling of the not-mounted canvas might slightly mess the edge.
The mounted print + Gator will buckle like crazy for up to 8 hours, but in the end it will all be beautifully, perfectly flat with no need for countermounting anything on the other side...so resist that countermounting urge when the buckling starts. And don't even think about substituting regular foamcore, it's Gotta be Gator (tm).
Oh and watch out for little chips of Gator that might get stuck to the back of the print or the Gator surface. Have some tape ready to pick up crud on the back of the print when you roll it up, and wipe down the Gator with a slightly moist towel before applying the glue. And clamp down or tape down the long piece of Gator before rolling the glue.
This is how I handle pretty big prints, including the 40 x 100's. You maybe don't need to roll up the more typical sizes, but definitely anything bigger than 20 x 30.
I cut a piece of Gator that is about 1/8" smaller than the canvas on three sides, and about a foot longer on one side. I tape up the full length of the canvas on the long side so it is overhanging the other three sides by 1/8" inch, and maybe more on the side opposite the taped side.
Then roll the canvas up on a tube and park it on the long stretch of Gator. Roll out about 0.4 ounces of glue per square foot on the Gator, remembering that a dry 3/16" x 8" foam roller will hold about 3 ounces that will never make it on to the Gator, you gotta prime the roller for the first print in a working session, just by pouring out extra glue. Try not to roll over the very edges until the inner sections of the Gator are pretty even, avoids big globs of glue on the sides of the Gator.
Roll out the print while pressing down and also tugging against the taped side. If you've got a vacuum press use it now, otherwise run your cotton-gloved hand over the print for a few minutes, piercing any bubbles that can't be pushed out the sides (you probably won't have any) with a hat pin. The reason for the 1/8" overhang is so you don't drag glue onto the face of the print while pressing it down, but have a wet paper towel handy to wipe up any glue that does get onto the surface of the print, and do it soon.
If there's a lot of canvas overhanging the sides, trim it with a Xacto or utility knife, otherwise rippling of the not-mounted canvas might slightly mess the edge.
The mounted print + Gator will buckle like crazy for up to 8 hours, but in the end it will all be beautifully, perfectly flat with no need for countermounting anything on the other side...so resist that countermounting urge when the buckling starts. And don't even think about substituting regular foamcore, it's Gotta be Gator (tm).
Oh and watch out for little chips of Gator that might get stuck to the back of the print or the Gator surface. Have some tape ready to pick up crud on the back of the print when you roll it up, and wipe down the Gator with a slightly moist towel before applying the glue. And clamp down or tape down the long piece of Gator before rolling the glue.
This is how I handle pretty big prints, including the 40 x 100's. You maybe don't need to roll up the more typical sizes, but definitely anything bigger than 20 x 30.
Framing Queen
CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
I routinely mount canvas on Perfect Mount. It's completely reversible and easy to use. I usually then mount the Perfect Mount to foamcore using ATG and some framing glue, then put the entire assembly into the drymounter - without heat - for approx 2 minutes. If you make a mistake, you can simply pull the canvas off the Perfect Mount. I've never had adhesive failure doing it in this way.
You can use something as simple as India Ink or a wood dye http://www.woodcraft.com/Catalog/Pr...22650&ss=4561de11-4788-45c3-9bca-8bb4c7513658 , I use a black, but it is only good for raw wood floaters. I apply before I sand and finish. Looks good and lets a little of the wood grain show.
Rob Markoff
PFG, Picture Framing God
Randy- I think Kirstie wanted to know how we make the edges of the canvases we put in floater frames black.
We usually print the edges black and then stretch them with the image centered on the bars and the black lines up with the edges. Or we overprint the image and wrap it around the edges of the bars.
Any kind of tape usually will eventually peel, and I do not like painting the edges as it is hard to get a clean straight line where the black stops and the face starts (even with frog tape). So, if the painting comes in with staples on the sides, a floater frame just is not an appropriate choice.
We usually print the edges black and then stretch them with the image centered on the bars and the black lines up with the edges. Or we overprint the image and wrap it around the edges of the bars.
Any kind of tape usually will eventually peel, and I do not like painting the edges as it is hard to get a clean straight line where the black stops and the face starts (even with frog tape). So, if the painting comes in with staples on the sides, a floater frame just is not an appropriate choice.
dectrola
CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
Lamin-Al, wet/cold/heat activated- is it similar to say mighty-muck, Frank's, or the other similar adhesives? Since it has archival qualities, is it possible to roll all glue use into one in a simple way. I use PVA for attaching boards, sealing backing dust covers, shadowbox spacings, Miracle-Muck for fabric wrapping, liquid beva for specialised art applications, and the usual suspects for anything else. Could I theoretically use lamin-al as a substitute for PVA, fabric mounting, and general glue use?
dectrola
CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
My apologies, the question was directed at Jeff, and his use of the product...
Jeff Rodier
SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Yes it will satisfy all of your PVA needs. I am going to try it for joining a couple of test frames as well. It comes undilluted so it is about the consistancy of Corner Weld. I currently use it for everything else.
PJ Brunet
Grumbler
If you're talking about a computer print on canvas--I would not want to stretch it at all--the image can crack apart and flake off very easily, I have seen it many times, especially on edges. Personally, I don't understand why anyone would print a computer image on canvas (sad impersonation of original art) but that's just my opinion. Probably the printing technology is improving, but unless you know for sure the print will stretch, I'd manage the risk accordingly.
For my own paintings I always stretch the canvas first--before I paint anything. I believe the choice of fabric and construction is part of the work and absolutely contributes to the visual effect. But this idealism can cost you--maybe if you need crates to ship your paintings--where a tube would be cheaper/faster. Also, if you stretch first there's no alignment problems and you're less likely to get cracks.
Cracking is also a reality for real oil paintings and acrylic paintings too--only a real old pro artist with tons of experience can predict what will cause cracks in his/her painting--like a change in humidity.
If you're an artist shopping for fabric, here's what I recommend. If you can afford it, get 100% flax linen. As far as I know, this lasts longer than anything--if you want your work to last 100s of years. It's very strong and you can stretch it tight. It's really not *that* expensive.
If you want something cheaper, I'd consider synthetic fabric--maybe this will last even longer than flax linen--who knows? Scientists can only speculate how long it will last. Make sure you do a stretch test. Stretch your fabric in X and Y directions--sometimes fabric only stretches well in one direction only! If the fabric is *thick* and stretchy and not too porous, it's perfect for stretching/painting on.
If you plan to re-stretch your painting, your choice of "gesso" is probably a big factor in cracking too. You can bet most artists aren't spending extra money for fancy archival gesso.
I highly recommend you get some sandpaper and smooth your sharp corners. If you don't sand your sharp corners you could end up with holes. For my own work I sand all four sides for a really smooth rounded look. And I iron my corners.
Finally, don't use staples to stretch the $1 painting purchased on Ebay. The proud owner of the $1 painting (from India, Africa, China?) doesn't realize it was painted on fabric barely stronger than tissue paper.
For my own paintings I always stretch the canvas first--before I paint anything. I believe the choice of fabric and construction is part of the work and absolutely contributes to the visual effect. But this idealism can cost you--maybe if you need crates to ship your paintings--where a tube would be cheaper/faster. Also, if you stretch first there's no alignment problems and you're less likely to get cracks.
Cracking is also a reality for real oil paintings and acrylic paintings too--only a real old pro artist with tons of experience can predict what will cause cracks in his/her painting--like a change in humidity.
If you're an artist shopping for fabric, here's what I recommend. If you can afford it, get 100% flax linen. As far as I know, this lasts longer than anything--if you want your work to last 100s of years. It's very strong and you can stretch it tight. It's really not *that* expensive.
If you want something cheaper, I'd consider synthetic fabric--maybe this will last even longer than flax linen--who knows? Scientists can only speculate how long it will last. Make sure you do a stretch test. Stretch your fabric in X and Y directions--sometimes fabric only stretches well in one direction only! If the fabric is *thick* and stretchy and not too porous, it's perfect for stretching/painting on.
If you plan to re-stretch your painting, your choice of "gesso" is probably a big factor in cracking too. You can bet most artists aren't spending extra money for fancy archival gesso.
I highly recommend you get some sandpaper and smooth your sharp corners. If you don't sand your sharp corners you could end up with holes. For my own work I sand all four sides for a really smooth rounded look. And I iron my corners.
Finally, don't use staples to stretch the $1 painting purchased on Ebay. The proud owner of the $1 painting (from India, Africa, China?) doesn't realize it was painted on fabric barely stronger than tissue paper.