How thick is a "ply" on matt board?
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Dancinbaer
SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Sorry Hub,
A ply is 1/4 of a 4 ply mat or 1/8 of a 8 ply mat. This is America we measure in inches so a ply is just a smidgen +/- 1/64 or so of an inch. That is of course it ain't been stepped on then it's even thinner.
Please forgive me, it's late, I have a bad cold, I'm on meds.
Welcome to the G, I'm sure someone will give you a serious answer or closer than mine.
Good night for now,
A ply is 1/4 of a 4 ply mat or 1/8 of a 8 ply mat. This is America we measure in inches so a ply is just a smidgen +/- 1/64 or so of an inch. That is of course it ain't been stepped on then it's even thinner.
Please forgive me, it's late, I have a bad cold, I'm on meds.
Welcome to the G, I'm sure someone will give you a serious answer or closer than mine.
Good night for now,
I just so happen to have a crescent 1577 right at my desk at home and using my son's Blues Clues ruler, it is 2mm thick, I believe the C1577 is considered a 4 ply mat so each ply would be .5mm, at least according to Blue's Clues.
Can I ask, what type of research project are you working on?
Can I ask, what type of research project are you working on?
You cant convert "ply" to any precise thickness
The word "ply" is very misleading and causes confusion all over the world wherever USA mat board is sold. Years ago a 4 ply was made by sticking 4 layers together - hence 4 ply. Today most mat board is made from 3 layers (top, core and backing) but it isn't called 3 ply!
IMHO - as someone who has made mat boards for 30+ years - there is only one way to talk about thickness. It's either so many millimetres, or if you are in USA parts of an inch....
0.040 in = 1.0mm
0.050 in = 1.25mm
0.060 in = 1.5mm
0.080 in = 2.0mm
The sooner the word "ply" is dropped the better for all the worlds framers.
The word "ply" is very misleading and causes confusion all over the world wherever USA mat board is sold. Years ago a 4 ply was made by sticking 4 layers together - hence 4 ply. Today most mat board is made from 3 layers (top, core and backing) but it isn't called 3 ply!
IMHO - as someone who has made mat boards for 30+ years - there is only one way to talk about thickness. It's either so many millimetres, or if you are in USA parts of an inch....
0.040 in = 1.0mm
0.050 in = 1.25mm
0.060 in = 1.5mm
0.080 in = 2.0mm
The sooner the word "ply" is dropped the better for all the worlds framers.
Framerguy
PFG, Picture Framing God
I agree, Keith, it's alot like calling any machine that reproduces a page of printing a "Xerox" machine or a paper nose tissue a "Kleenex". (In this country at least.)
And not all "4 ply" matboards are born equal either. Bainbridge mats are a bit thinner than Crescent, suedes and other fabrics are a bit thicker than paper faced mats, etc..
So there aren't many standards at all in measuring the thickness of most matboards. Maybe the F.A.C.T.'s group can do some work on correcting this misnomer.
And not all "4 ply" matboards are born equal either. Bainbridge mats are a bit thinner than Crescent, suedes and other fabrics are a bit thicker than paper faced mats, etc..
So there aren't many standards at all in measuring the thickness of most matboards. Maybe the F.A.C.T.'s group can do some work on correcting this misnomer.
Tom, the first thing I thought of was Kleenex.
CAframer
SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
(Excerpts from ART HARDWARE: The Definitive Guide to Artists’ Materials, by Steven Saitzyk © 1987)
The first step in discussing any paper board is to define a board. A paper board is defined by its thickness. Any paper that is 0.012 inch or more, which is a little less than 1/64 inch in thickness, can accurately be called a board. Tissue paper is approximately 0.001 inch thick, bond paper ranges from 0.003 to 0.004 inch, and one-ply museum board ranges from 0.0125 to 0.015 inch. The material most commonly used to store and protect fine art is four-ply museum board and its thickness ranges from 0.050 to 0.060 inch (0.060 inch is almost 1/16 inch).
At one time there were several ways to define various boards by their thickness. A standard mat board was said to be fourteen-ply (roughly the equivalent of putting together fourteen sheets of bond paper) and double-weight mat board twenty-eight-ply. A standard museum board, which is approximately equal to a mat board in thickness, is called four-ply because each ply is much thicker than bond paper and it takes only four to reach the desired thickness. Today, most manufacturers of paper boards are shifting toward using a point system of measurement, which will make it easier to comprehend thickness and to compare various boards. In the point system, one point equals 0.001 inch. Therefore, if the average mat board or museum board is between 0.050 and 0.060 inch it would be between 50 pt. and 60 pt. in thickness.
There can often be as much as a four-point variance of thickness within a manufacturer's advertised thickness. Manufacturers of mat board have, for the most part, dropped their system of defining thickness by plys in favor of the point system. Some manufacturers who make both mat board and boards for illustration, as well as for graphic arts, refer to their 50 pt. to 60 pt. boards as single weight, and their 100 pt. to 120 pt. boards as double weight. Museum boards are still most commonly referred to in plys, although the point system is rapidly taking over.
The first step in discussing any paper board is to define a board. A paper board is defined by its thickness. Any paper that is 0.012 inch or more, which is a little less than 1/64 inch in thickness, can accurately be called a board. Tissue paper is approximately 0.001 inch thick, bond paper ranges from 0.003 to 0.004 inch, and one-ply museum board ranges from 0.0125 to 0.015 inch. The material most commonly used to store and protect fine art is four-ply museum board and its thickness ranges from 0.050 to 0.060 inch (0.060 inch is almost 1/16 inch).
At one time there were several ways to define various boards by their thickness. A standard mat board was said to be fourteen-ply (roughly the equivalent of putting together fourteen sheets of bond paper) and double-weight mat board twenty-eight-ply. A standard museum board, which is approximately equal to a mat board in thickness, is called four-ply because each ply is much thicker than bond paper and it takes only four to reach the desired thickness. Today, most manufacturers of paper boards are shifting toward using a point system of measurement, which will make it easier to comprehend thickness and to compare various boards. In the point system, one point equals 0.001 inch. Therefore, if the average mat board or museum board is between 0.050 and 0.060 inch it would be between 50 pt. and 60 pt. in thickness.
There can often be as much as a four-point variance of thickness within a manufacturer's advertised thickness. Manufacturers of mat board have, for the most part, dropped their system of defining thickness by plys in favor of the point system. Some manufacturers who make both mat board and boards for illustration, as well as for graphic arts, refer to their 50 pt. to 60 pt. boards as single weight, and their 100 pt. to 120 pt. boards as double weight. Museum boards are still most commonly referred to in plys, although the point system is rapidly taking over.
Baer Charlton
SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
It may not make it right....
but gather 500 framers in a room and tell them to use a 50 point mat, or
a 2mm board..... and you will get 499 hands in the air. [One person will be talking on their cell phone and never heard the statement.]
OR, tell them to use a 4-ply rag mat board.... and 497 framers will be telling the other one to hang-up and take the class..... one is now headed for the bathroom because the class is longer than their coffee.
In the words of a pirate... "it's more like a suggestion than a rule".
but gather 500 framers in a room and tell them to use a 50 point mat, or
a 2mm board..... and you will get 499 hands in the air. [One person will be talking on their cell phone and never heard the statement.]
OR, tell them to use a 4-ply rag mat board.... and 497 framers will be telling the other one to hang-up and take the class..... one is now headed for the bathroom because the class is longer than their coffee.
In the words of a pirate... "it's more like a suggestion than a rule".
gemini
CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
Maybe you could explain what you're trying to say Baer. I honestly don't understand what you posted.
Paul N
SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
If metric were used, a 4 ply would be 5 mm, 8 ply would be 10 mm (or 1 Centimeter), 12 ply would be 15 mm, etc.
But hey, metric is sooooo complicated to the easily confused masses.
But hey, metric is sooooo complicated to the easily confused masses.
Framerguy
PFG, Picture Framing God
Tom, the first thing I thought of was Kleenex.
I keep tellin' ya, Jo, great minds think alike!!!
(Now I wonder what I can use for an excuse??)
Quote:
"Maybe you could explain what you're trying to say Baer. I honestly don't understand what you posted."
You haven't been on here long Gemini, you have to use a bit of imagination with our philosopher framer, Baer! I think that he is trying to give you the view from the front of the class instead of within the class. And rules are made to be broken, suggestions are just to be made fun of .............................. I'm guessing.
Baer Charlton
SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
As a generalization... when we framers talk about mats... and say "4-ply" everyone nods in agreement..... (no mater if it's fauxsuede or thin squished Cresent..... ) When we say 8-ply... we all understand its the thick stuff that older Wizards can't cut.
But when we start talking 5.013471 in a faux fuzzy fabic faced paper..... the eyes start to glaze over and.... Yeah! Just like yours did.
There used to be a moulding called (yeah, a million years ago before you were born and I already was starting to go grey but still surfed.) 1/2" OT Black. Every frame shop stocked it, every manufacture made it. And none of them matched.
Why? because they were never 1/2" wide or tall... [it was a given "suggestion", or "perceived" size.]
Two: It was almost never an OT ["Oval Top"].... most of the time it was a "Round Top".... [again: more like a "suggestion".]
and last but not least..... go to your wall, and look at that huge section of "Black"..... how many shades of "Black" are there?.... "suggestion".
But it's Friday... and Tom's definition of "suggestions are just to be made fun of.... " actually works for me.
But when we start talking 5.013471 in a faux fuzzy fabic faced paper..... the eyes start to glaze over and.... Yeah! Just like yours did.
There used to be a moulding called (yeah, a million years ago before you were born and I already was starting to go grey but still surfed.) 1/2" OT Black. Every frame shop stocked it, every manufacture made it. And none of them matched.
Why? because they were never 1/2" wide or tall... [it was a given "suggestion", or "perceived" size.]
Two: It was almost never an OT ["Oval Top"].... most of the time it was a "Round Top".... [again: more like a "suggestion".]
and last but not least..... go to your wall, and look at that huge section of "Black"..... how many shades of "Black" are there?.... "suggestion".
But it's Friday... and Tom's definition of "suggestions are just to be made fun of.... " actually works for me.
Bogframe
SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
My Fletcher 150 CMC sez that most 4-ply is .47mm unless it's a 8517, then it's .5mm. Then again, Crescent 4-ply rag cuts closer to .75, as do the faux suedes...aw, the heck with it, just remember to do either a double mat or an 8-ply to keep the glass off the print!