How much Super 77 should you use?

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Syano

Grumbler in Training
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Feb 9, 2012
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How much Super 77 should you use when mounting an over-sized poster (96x30) to a piece of mighty-core or gator-board? The more glue the better? Or is it possible to use to much glue?

We rolled up the poster to the middle (so there were equal amounts of rolled up poster on each side), then placed the rolled up poster in the middle of a sheet of mighty-core, covered one side and started to spray the other with Super 77 and then brayed it down using a rolling pen with felt adhered to the pen (this type of brayer was recommended to me by LJ's technical services team who mentioned it helps cut down on the lines that rubber brayers sometimes cause). Then we did the same thing to the other side. Everything seemed fine but the next day there was a 30"x1" bubble in the center of the poster that spanned the height of this poster.

I was thinking that perhaps we either 1) Used too much glue, 2) Used not enough glue 3) didn't bray it down enough in the center or 4) some unknown reason that I was hoping The Grumble could help me uncover.

Any suggestions are much appreciated.

Thank you!
 
Dave beat me to it :) That was going to be MY reply.......

I would not use Super 77 to mount something of this size- or in general. What kind of Gator? What kind of poster? If it was on thin, clay coated paper, Super77 is not your friend.

If it is white gator, that is a big part of your problem as the surface needs to be sanded well and the dust completely removed for any adhesive to stick. Same for Mighty Core- two non-porus surfaces and a solvent based adhesive are a bad combination.

There is a good chance that you did not give the piece enough open time so the solvents in the adhesive did not fully evaporate. They were trapped in the mount and could not penetrate the substrate and solvented the adhesive.

Or, you gave it too much open time and the adhesive dried before having an opportunity to bond.

Or, you failed to adequately shake the can and did not have enough solids dispensed.

However, from your methodology, I can't see how you could have had an even application of adhesive, especially in the middle. I think that is a big part of your problem - that since you went from the center out- and then from the other side, how could you have an even application of adhesive in the middle?

Your best bet would have been to wet mount the piece, or subcontract to someone with a cold roller press or a 51 x 100 vacuum press.
 
I learned long ago that this stuff is pure evil. Cost me hundreds in do-overs.

99 9/9 of people on The G do not use it. I'm betting the next poster will comment on the evilness of the fumes.
 
Hi!

BTW: the fumes are also pure evil. You don't need this product. The lesson you have learned today is that sometimes even 3M makes mistakes. Remember the brown bump-ons?
 
Let me be harsh in my reply. LJ's technical services team did you no favor and makes me really question their competence. In fact it unbelievable that they gave you that advise. :nuts: Nuts...

framer
 
My answer to your original question would also be "None."

After trying just about everything in 45 years of framing, between the fumes, the deadly fumes, the overspray, and the lack of facility, no one mentioned the worst of 77's flaws - after a couple of years, it does not stick at all. The adhesive gives up the ghost and bubble after bubble will appear with no way to fix.

Just say NO to Spray 77!!!
 
To reiterate the previous comments, it's no good for permanent mounting. Sooner or not much later the poster will bubble. The problem then is that where it is still stuck it is still stuck fast, so removing it to redo is nigh-on impossible.

Try and rule the stuff out of your life completely. :icon11:
 
According to the Member List there are 1442 members and at least one of them used it.

So at best 1441 Grumbles don't use it; 1441/1442 = 99.93%

I would guess that at least one more does; 1440/1442 = 99.86%

99 9/10 is pretty close, I'd say.
 
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David N Waldmann said:
According to the Member List there are 1442 members and at least one of them used it.

So at best 1441 Grumbles don't use it; 1441/1442 = 99.93%

I would guess that at least one more does; 1440/1442 = 99.86%

99 9/10 is pretty close, I'd say.
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Me....but NEVER for framing! I use it to hold fabric layers together when I make wings for Dragons. But even then the fabric gets sewn rather heavily after the bonding. This stuff is NOT permanent,and it will let go. L
 
OK who pulled the fire alarm?!? (Mentioning use of Spray Super 77 or Duct tape on a professional framers forum) hehe

All joking/ribbing aside, everyone here is still learning. I'm sure that you will receive some positive suggestions, for a more appropriate mounting method.
 
David N Waldmann said:
According to the Member List there are 1442 members and at least one of them used it.

So at best 1441 Grumbles don't use it; 1441/1442 = 99.93%

I would guess that at least one more does; 1440/1442 = 99.86%

99 9/10 is pretty close, I'd say.
Click to expand...


Actually, There are 1442 PAGES in the member list. The actual number of members is 9094 which makes it 9092/9094 = 99.978%. :beer:
 
There is one use.... Sticking strips on marbled paper to mats.

You can get a lot more pressure on and that's what makes it stick. Plus, a small bit of paper is less likely to wriggle about due to expansion.

Having said that, I haven't done any marbley mats since a long time ago. But I do have a mat with spray-glued strips from the olden days and it is still sound.
 
The only thing I ever use spray adhesives for is to adhere a printed bio to the back of a dust cover or the like. Even then I use a spray booth to spray it.

I once had a friend adhere carpet to the inside of his van with Spray 77 back in the early 70's.

:icon9:
 
Larry Peterson said:
Actually, There are 1442 PAGES in the member list. The actual number of members is 9094 which makes it 9092/9094 = 99.978%. :beer:
Click to expand...

Don't forget you need 15 posts to register on the member list.
 
Larry Peterson said:
Actually, There are 1442 PAGES in the member list. The actual number of members is 9094 which makes it 9092/9094 = 99.978%. :beer:
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Not on my computer.

Screenshot2014-03-14101309_zps59e59ffd.png
 
Way back in the day. we used this stuff on some oversized Michael Jordan wings posters. Every single one came back through the passing years with bubbling issues. Lucky that the posters were cheap but still a headache reframing them all.

Jennifer
 
Thanks for the advice and suggestions. Moving forward, how would you suggest to mount a 96x30 poster? The poster's value is approximately $100.

Thanks again,
 
Syano said:
Thanks for the advice and suggestions. Moving forward, how would you suggest to mount a 96x30 poster? The poster's value is approximately $100.

Thanks again,
Click to expand...

The one time I had to do something this big, I outsourced it to a company that does trade show graphics. I brought them the print and the gatorboard; it cost me about $100 to have them laminate it (that was with me trucking it out to them; factor in the cost of your time for that).

Back to the original subject: the other problem with Super 77 is that when it *does* bubble and you try to fix it, trying to release it with Unstik only leaves a god-awful gooey mess. Don't ask me how I know...
 
Syano said:
Thanks for the advice and suggestions. Moving forward, how would you suggest to mount a 96x30 poster? The poster's value is approximately $100.

Thanks again,
Click to expand...


I would Dry mount it. Because it is only 30 inches tall a manual dry mount press would do the job. Just have to do it in "bites". And luckly suppliers carry 48 x 96 boards.
 
Syano said:
Thanks for the advice and suggestions. Moving forward, how would you suggest to mount a 96x30 poster? The poster's value is approximately $100.Thanks again,
Click to expand...

1. Take it to a graphics company that uses wide-format roller presses and have it mounted to high-density foam board (aka Gatorfoam or MightyCore) using a good quality pressure-sensitive adhesive. Graphics companies do this all the time.

2. Order a cut-to-size sheet of high-density foam board or aluminum composite material (ACM, aka DiBond, ePanel, etc.) from your local Kool Tack distributor, with their low-temperature, heat-activated adhesive preapplied. On the bench-top, mount your poster using a clothes iron. Yes, it is easy and it really works.
 
We have a great sign and digital printing company in town. Sure you have one around too.
Great feeling to get something massive, drop it off and in a couple days pick it up mounted on whatever I want and ready to go.
They also have several laminates to pick from. Some are designed for outdoor use, etc Not that I would put framing project outside, but makes for nice options on large things if the customer is okay with a cheaper project not using glazing. And a heck of a lot easier on me.
Price is usually ALOT less than you would expect. Drop by with it vs calling. Our terminology vs theirs can be a bit different.
Something massive for us is just another little project for them.
 
Absolutely, and you're one of them, member for 21 months; 2 posts (absolutely nothing wrong with that). Go on The Framers Forum (or any popular forum that lists all it's members) and search the member list by amount of posts from lowest to highest.

There's 76 pages of members there and you don't see any posts at all until page 37 and you don't meet anyone with 15 posts until page 68.
 
About 6 months ago, I was in real hot water because of a Super 77 failed bond. I escaped that one by heating the surface of the print with a COOL iron and lifting it off the substrate before the Super 77 cooled. I had to work on small sections at a time with this method, but I was able to get the print off the backing. Then I had to sand off the old Super 77 as best I could from the back of the print so I could heat mount it, which was the correct mount in the first place. DO NOT use Super 77.
 
I think you will find I have made 3 posts :)

As virtually everyone has mentioned spray mount is bad.

I would use a cold press such as a jet mounter these are fairly simple and cheap to purchase (compared to such as a hot press), they don't take up much room, although if you haven't used one before it can be tricky so practice first or get some tuition.
 
Jim is right.

A rigid substrate like Gator or Kapa and an oversized rollerpress with an experienced operator is the only safe way to tackle a job like this. Strike up a relationship with anyone nearby who can do this for you on a regular basis and allow for their charge in your pricing.
 
artfolio said:
.........an oversized rollerpress with an experienced operator is the only safe way to tackle a job like this.
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Beg to differ. I would think my 51 x 100 press would do the job just as well. :)
 
Rob Markoff said:
Beg to differ. I would think my 51 x 100 press would do the job just as well. :)
Click to expand...

Or a Seal 500t (which we have as a backup to our vacuum press for things like this).
 
tedh said:
I learned long ago that this stuff is pure evil. Cost me hundreds in do-overs.

99 9/9 of people on The G do not use it. I'm betting the next poster will comment on the evilness of the fumes.
Click to expand...

Or the fact it will fail in time even if correctly mounted at the beginning. Sprays are the least long term permanent of all adhesives systems and most definitely will fail in time. "Permanent" sprays are only permanent when the tackifiers are present after proper bonding and curing under a weight for 24 hours. At that time most have tear strength and are permanent at that time. But long term permanency--called longevity--they will never have.

Dismiss the spray--any brand--and shift to rollers with high tack pressure-sensitive or farm out the job.
Chris Paschke
 
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