How much of a DEPOSIT do you generally request for new orders? 8/11 Survey/Poll/Chat

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How large of a DEPOSIT do you usually take, for new framing orders?

  • 00% No deposit due in advance

    Votes: 16 11.7%

  • ~25% (1/4)

    Votes: 2 1.5%

  • ~33% (1/3)

    Votes: 2 1.5%

  • ~50% (1/2)

    Votes: 93 67.9%

  • ~66% (2/3)

    Votes: 1 0.7%

  • ~75% (3/4)

    Votes: 1 0.7%

  • 100% Full payment due in advance

    Votes: 22 16.1%

  • None/Not a Framer/Does Not Apply

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    137
  • Poll closed .
Mike Labbe

Mike Labbe

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How large of a deposit do you usually request?

Monthly Survey & Discussion
​

Vote results are anonymous. We are talking about average deposit amount, for retail sales.

What statement do you use to "close the sale" and ask for the deposit/payment?
​

Discussion and opinions are welcomed for this important topic.​

RESULTS from previous TPFG surveys: LINK TO RESULTS​

This will let us compare the changing results of this same question, which was posed to grumblers in 2004 and 2008.

2004 results:
24% No deposit due in advance
03% ~25% (1/4)
03% ~33% (1/3)
63% ~50% (1/2)
01% ~66% (2/3)
03% Full payment due in advance
02% OTHER/MISC/NA

2008 results:
08% No deposit due in advance
01% ~25% (1/4)
03% ~33% (1/3)
70% ~50% (1/2)
00% ~66% (2/3)
14% Full payment due in advance
04% Variable deposit %, depending on dollar value of order

2011 results:
pending

Grumble surveys are purely for entertainment value, and to stimulate healthy/friendly discussion. Since the results only represent a relatively small group of participants, use them cautiously.​
 
Last edited:
I have to say I've had a lot of luck with this ...

"Would you like to go ahead and pay for that now?"

Mostly I get yeses. If they get a paniced look I add "or give me a 50% deposit?"

Has work great for me!!
 
Our standard close of the sale is: "Would like to pay for this today or just put down a half deposit". Only extremely loyal, return customers get to pay on pick-up.

Lori
 
My personal experiment over the last 18 months.

I used to say, “The total, with tax is $XXX.XX. You can pay half now and half when you pick it up or you can pay it all now.”

This resulted in the majority paying 50% up front.

For the last 18 months I have said, “The total, with tax, is $XXX.XX.”

This has resulted in the majority paying in full up front.

YMMV.

Clive.
 
I get payment in full on about 90% of my orders. My line is "How would you like to take care of that today". If they respond with "Do I have to pay for it now?" or something like that I give them "We request a 50% deposit or payment in full".
 
I'm like FrameMakers. I ask "How would you like to pay for this?" and then wait for a response. If they ask, I tel them, "We require at least a 50% deposit".

Regards,
Troy
 
We have discussed this many times before, so the poll will be interesting to view. We ask for and get 100% We made this change from 50% last November. Since then, our receivables have dropped, our pick up bins are not crammed full, and our customers seem fine. I am no longer making calls to hound those who need to pick their work. We take 50% on orders over $1000. and those people have so much invested they almost always pick up promptly.
100% is a breath of fresh air! Any why not? The big boxes do it, the chain stores do it, and we are certainly more trustworthy.
 
How would you like to pay for that today?
 
I tell them the total is $$$$, including tax, and then shut up. Most of the time, they pull out their card or checkbook. The few that ask to make a deposit, will pay 50% at the time.

I do, however, have some very long time, loyal customers that leave no deposits, and I have never had problems with late pick ups.

I did have a good customer leave a $20 deposit on a $350 order several weeks ago. I couldnt help but giggle after she left. She picked up her order 30 mins after I called her :)
 
I'm one of the mad people - you pay me 50% and I lose 50% incentive to do the job.

PAY ME 100% UP FRONT and it'll be the absolute last job I do the day before it's due, in fact I might just leave the final fitting until the same day hoping you're not the first customer through the door.

I've done this survey before and discussed it and been blasted, but I'm still doing it and I'm still trading; trading how I like to trade whilst doing something I also like doing. Taking money up front is almost like mixing business with pleasure for me - I don't want what I do to start being like 'work'.

Having spouted all that, 90% of 1st-timers, when given the final price, dive for their wallet/purse, which is nice.

Sometimes they'll have excuses for paying up front, like..

Someone else will be collecting.

They have the cash now, brought it expecting to have to pay up front and don't want to blow it somewhere else.

Credit card time-of-the-month.

Maybe they've bought a shedload of stuff from our craft/'other' side and want to include the framing ...

&c

Or regards deposits, they want to spread the payment.

These types are treated with suspicion.
 
We generally get 50%; if someone offers to put down more, we accept it & that happens about 10% of the time. For some trusted customers, about 10% more, we don't ask for a down payment at all. For a couple of business partners, we work on net-30 billing.

We have had a few people that have been a bit slow on picking stuff up, though never for more than a few weeks, and it had nothing obvious to do with how much they put down. We did have to take an art consultant to court once; tasteless affair where said consultant tried to dictate what she wanted to pay after delivery had already been accepted; cut and dry case legally & we did get the money. We will never work with her again, though.

I noticed that the trend from 2004 to 2008 was to get less likely to take no down payment. I wonder what that says about the business climate. Not sure I like the direction.
 
The majority is 100% up front. For larger orders, over $1000 it's 50/50

I have one regular customer who does not leave a deposit but always picks up a day after the phone call.
I have another regular customer who leaves 50% deposit no matter what the order is, but again, she is a very loyal quick pick up kind of customer.

I use the same line as everyone else (should);
How would you like to pay for that?

Some ask if they have to pay for that today in full. I calmly reply 'yes, please'.
So far; no problems.
I had one last week who questioned 'but what if I don't like it'.....(and we spent about 2 hours on design......)
 
Ylva said:
I had one last week who questioned 'but what if I don't like it'.....(and we spent about 2 hours on design......)
Click to expand...

So what did you say?

I had one, after paying in full up front, ask if she got all her money back if she didn't like it when it was done. That was an easy, "No."

Clive.
 
I told her at the time of order that NOW was the time to make any changes if she wasn't happy with her selection...
That I try to keep everyone satisfied with the end result, but these were her choices and if she wanted/needed to maybe wait a few days and come back to see if she still liked the design, she was welcome to do so.

She didn't want to do that. And her husband basically told her; you've been here for a long time, what's not to be happy about??????
 
As you folks know, I'm all about getting the money upfront. Even in my new job, selling patio furniture (some of which is done custom), I want all the money upfront. Tuesday, my boss was in town and told me we were running about $5000 behind July 2010, and he challenged me to catch up by selling $6000 that day. I brought in over $9000 (nah nah nah), most of which was two orders. The first order was $2700 (and the guy haggled relentlessly), and the second order was $6500 (the lady never once questioned my pricing). Both paid in full by credit card, no questions asked.

These folks have the money and the ability to pay in full up front. It's up to you whether you take advantage of that to benefit your business. Are you a custom framing business or a finance company, that's the question to ask. These customers already have financing through their credit cards, but they come to you because they need a framer.

Next year, I want to see payment in full from 90% of you.
 
It's good to see that more people are getting full payment up front. I used to not even ask for a deposit, but I also still have completed jobs, not paid for, from 9 years ago sitting in the back room. I have had to move them to three locations so far....

I get at least 1/2 up front now. It means that the bill is easier to handle when the customer comes back in. The occasional few that I collect no deposit from are the ones that take the longest coming back in. One woman has actively been avoiding my shop, when her husband came in one weekend with her I have to admit to getting enjoyment out of watching her squirm around while they were here :) Sorry, I did. I like her and her husband and am gettin ready to just give it to them for free, except that it is sitting out in the main room and people comment on how nice it looks... :)
 
95% of the time I get the amount in full when they place the order for framing. (I also require 100% deposits on any custom jewelry I do.)

I tell them the price with tax, along with a listing and pointing to each element they picked for the framing design, and then I shut up. And they whip out a credit card. Score!


Once in a while someone asks to break it up and do the 50/50 thing. Those are usually picked up later, and usually require me to futz around with reminder phone calls.

I had two glass replacement jobs last week. The first paid in full when she dropped of the pieces, and picked them up the next morning a half hour after I opened. The second dropped off the piece and told me she'd have to get the money from her daughter since it was her daughter's picture. The total came to $10, and it's still sitting here - my guess is it will be here a long, long, long time.
 
RoboFramer said:
I'm one of the mad people - you pay me 50% and I lose 50% incentive to do the job.

Having spouted all that, 90% of 1st-timers, when given the final price, dive for their wallet/purse, which is nice.
Click to expand...

I'm with RoboFramer on this topic

The rest of the industry has more than convinced people that they should pay up front for "custom" (another topic for another day) framing. I really enjoy the look of shock followed by the warm smiles that we get when they find out we trust and respect them.

Many return customers bring in their art and after we've helped them select the treatment they want they say "you know my number call me when it's ready". No mention of price until they arrive credit card in hand to pick it up.

I guess we're just really into old fashioned business thinking.
 
I don't understand why you would take the risk though. Might be that you have only wonderful, picking up right away, kind of customers. (and they lived happily ever after) Even with the occasional, in the past, 50% on smaller orders I found that they don't come back to pick it up after all.

I am not a bank. When a customer orders; I have to order materials and pay my supplier. My other bills keep coming too. If customers decide 'they don't need it right away', and that does happen; I get nervous.

Right now, I have 2 jerseys that have been sitting here for well over 2 months. They are paid for, so I dont' care too much. They're a bit in the way though....
 
TSF said:
...
The rest of the industry has more than convinced people that they should pay up front for "custom" (another topic for another day) framing. I really enjoy the look of shock followed by the warm smiles that we get when they find out we trust and respect them...
Click to expand...

You're setting up a bit of a strawman argument by implying that framers who ask for payment up front do not trust or respect their clients. I'm pretty sure most of us do trust and respect our clients. It's simply a matter of sound business practice and preserving cash flow.
 
Exactly Dave. It isn't about respect or trusting the customer to come back, it is about paying my bills and moulding suppliers. It's about the business, not the art or craft, but the business end of the "job".

And the ones that I get no deposit from take the longest to come back when the work is done.

Also, truth be told, the ones that pay in full are pretty much guaranteed that the supplier will be out of stock, discontinued the moulding or had a "bad batch".. :)
 
I was not referring to or implying that other framers do not trust or respect their customers but rather to the perception that their customers may have.
I may be jaded in my thinking but that is what i have experienced here.
 
I realise I'm fortunate to be able to do things the way I like to, and if I liked to take full payment up front, or especially a 50% deposit, it wouldn't be a problem with my customers (I'm not posh enough to have 'clients' :smiley: )I'm sure - and a fair few do insist on one or the other anyway.

I'm also fortunate to be consistently busy and to have a whole load more things going on than framing - we have over 20 'departments' on our cash register and last week 'haberdashery' (what you call 'notions') alone beat framing! So cash flow is not so much of a worry - a one week turnaround also helps - if someone is up to 3 weeks late for collection, and that's rare, I still get paid before my invoice is due. ....... assuming I'd have to order anything anyway.

As for 'risk' after operating this way for 17 years I don't think I'm taking one, but if things changed - i.e. I started to get stiffed on a regular basis, I'd simply switch to full payment up front - I could learn to live with it I suppose - maybe I could have an arrangement with my bank to take a week longer to clear deposits, that could work!
 
Some try to pay twice!

I collect 100% up front with a simple "How would you like to pay for it?". I think it makes the picking up process much more enjoyable when they don't owe anything.

I'm surprised at the number of people who get out their wallet when they come in to pick up, thinking that they owe for their order. It happened today with a young guy picking up his diploma - I offered to let him pay again... :)
 
I'm a small framer, and many of my customers are repeat customers, so I don't worry much about payment from them, so I normally get no deposit unless they ask, and then I get between 20 to 50% of the "not to exceed" price, from the good past customers. {I did have to wait once for about 3 weeks, but they were out of town...}

For new ones I get a minimum of 50%, of my "not to exceed price".

My pricing philosophy is slightly different. I give a "not to exceed price". I explain that because excellent custom framing is really an art and a craft, it might take a little less time than I estimate. And sometimes I can get a slightly better price from the supplier.

Also, a price of $199.47 sounds so chain store. A price of $200.00, not to exceed, sounds more custom, and according to consumer pricing studies, because of fewer significant figures, denotes more quality.
 
Interesting pricing concept, Grey Owl.
 
Also

we require 50% but usually try to collect 100%.

Another benefit of collecting 100%:

When the customer comes back to pick up the job, they've already paid, so it's just a positive experience. We have lots of other items besides framing services so this leads to other sales since they have no $$ due at the time of pickup.
 
StompingGrounds said:
We have lots of other items besides framing services so this leads to other sales since they have no $$ due at the time of pickup.
Click to expand...

But if they had no $$ due at time of ordering that could also lead to other sales, in fact at time of ordering they'll have more time with you and at time of pickup someone could be waiting outside with the engine running - order paid up front or not.
 
Our shop is nearly tied between 50% and 100% (never 0%, they'd never get picked up!) 50% is slightly higher in our shop, so that's what we picked. (there are exceptions of course for relatives, corporate/billed customers, orders of a certain amount, etc)

I'm not as worried about cash flow, as with sitting on the completed orders for a long period of time. :) It makes it less painful at pickup, IMO, with a smaller (or zero) amount. There's more of an incentive/less of of discouragement to fetch their work.

People expect to pay in advance, which is now the industry standard at the big boxes, etc. At some point, we may consider doing same in our shop. The change in poll results from 2004 to 2008 to 2011 seems to be showing a dramatic change.

I'm encouraged by how active this poll has been, and will try to do new ones every month or two. I have some ideas for polls to bring us to the end of 2011, then maybe we can get some suggestions for new ones.

Thanks for participating in the grumble poll and discussion!
Mike
 
Robo they have spent a good bit of time in the shop already when they order. So they tend not to "browse". Also since they have been "hit" with a goodly sized quote they may also be of the mindset that they have already dropped enough in my shop.

When they come to pick up it is a little more leisurely and a little more conducive to browsing. If they had a balance then they may be of the mindset of, "since i am already paying I might as well add a little more to the tab".
 
FrameMakers said:
I get payment in full on about 90% of my orders. My line is "How would you like to take care of that today". If they respond with "Do I have to pay for it now?" or something like that I give them "We request a 50% deposit or payment in full".
Click to expand...

Exactly what we do, but we require at least 50% on the standard clients.
 
I try to get payment in full but the very minimum is 50% . Returning customers generally will not be concerned with paying total up front but the new custmers don't feel comfortable leaving $200.00 plus w/o having something to show for it - can't say that I blame them.
 
It's very interesting (to me) seeing the dramatic change in how frame shops are taking deposits. I wonder what other things are changing/adjusting for our industry. These might be interesting future poll topics!

Thanks to all for participating. I think i'll let this one run until the end of August.

Mike
 
I would like to see a poll of the percentage of chop, length or box purchased by shops around the country. Many would fit 2 or more so the percentage of each if it can be polled.
 
The polling software is too simple for that, but I could externalize it to an outside website. I'll write down for a possible future idea.

Mike
 
Full Payment up front. When I started to change the policy slowly, I would ask, "Would you like to put 50% down or pay in full today?" The answer was almost always to pay in full. When I reversed the question to, "Would you like to pay in full or put 50% down?" The answer was almost always 50%. My employee knew what I was doing and would always laugh at me.

Today, it is full payment up front. People pick up their work are happy to have it. It makes good business sense, too. I can only remember having two, maybe three people that have refused. I am okay with that because they are probably the ones that would be slow to pick up. I lose more customers to the very low end pricing for needlework that generally runs in the $40 - $70 range because it is "too much" to pay.
 
I usually take 50%. If they never come back at least the materials and labor are paid for. The amount of people who don't pick up their stuff is so small as to not really be a problem for us.
 
Interesting survey and I appreciate reading the comments, too. Although I voted in the 50% down range, I'm getting more and more customers who are paying in full at the time they place the order.

I'd also be interested in a survey on chop, length, or box - I know my buying habits in that regard have changed a great deal in the past couple years.
 
We're coming down to the final days to participate in this survey and discussion.

Mike
 
This is the final day to participate

Comments welcome!
 
After I show the customer my estimate sheet and walk them through it, I say "Your total is $$, would you like to pay for it in full or make a deposit?" Usually the deposit offered is 50%. I'd say the decision to pay in full or make a deposit is about 50/50.

And like someone else mentioned, only long time loyal customers can pay in full on pick up.
 
Well, I'm 4 months into my new business and I started off by not taking any sort of deposit... and I've already been burned once, almost twice. So now I either take 50% down or 100%. I usually tell the customer, "Would you like to pay half now and half when you pick up, or 100%?" I don't do work without taking something now. Wish it didn't have to be that way but...
 
Creative Chicks said:
Our standard close of the sale is: "Would like to pay for this today or just put down a half deposit". Only extremely loyal, return customers get to pay on pick-up.

Lori
Click to expand...
This is exactly us. It's a pretty mixed bag of responses.
 
Today my wife and I were both busy taking a framing order each when a third customer approached the counter with a matted and cello-wrapped print for framing. In this situation if one or both of us are near to completion, the 3rd customer can wait a short while, with a coffee if they like, but we'd both just started.

So we had to call my framer, who is not good at design, but at least this thing was matted and the mat actually looked quite good - both in color and width - DUH - it was one of our own matted prints!

So out he came, offered some samples up, customer chose quite well too - but then I saw him taking MONEY!!! The amount of money seemed like a deposit but it turned out that he'd taken the money (cash as well, how mad is that) for the matted print , with the frame to be paid for, as usual, on collection.

You just can't get the staff.
 
Results posted

This survey is complete and has been closed. The results have been posted, beside those of a few years ago. TBH, There hasnt been much of a change in our habits with regards to deposits.

We currently have a survey for BACKING PAPER, on the main forum.

The next poll after this one will be the GRUMBLE'S NINTH ANNUAL FRAME SHOP TECHNOLOGY SURVEY, starting in mid to late October and running until the end of November. This asks framers what equipment they use to cut mats, CMC types, POS/Pricing types, how we use internet in the shops, etc.

You can results at www.custompictureframing.com/poll_results.htm

Thanks in advance participating!
Mike
 
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