How do I take this metal frame apart?

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WizSteve

WizSteve

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Industry Vendor
Joined
Feb 19, 1999
Posts
692
Loc
Mukilteo, WA USA
This picture came in the shop yesterday for a glass replacement, and the guy has already been by this morning to see if it was finished. No, I said, but I'll get it done right away. So great, I get the frame and flip it over to take it apart and find this:

metalcorner.jpg


I think I'm going to have to eat crow on this one...
 
you can get it apart by clamping a leg to the table, taking a screwdriver against the edge of the hardware in that leg and hammer until it works it's way out........on the down side.....it will not go back together again
 
With a metal frame taker aparter... ?

:faintthud:
 
Who makes these darn things, and WHY????????

The upside, Steve, is that you can sell him a new frame, in addition to glass replacement!
 
Crow tastes best BBQ'd.

I love how the public feels that just because it is a frame in the simplest terms . . . we certainly can and are able to fix, repair, and accomplish any task they cookup to re-use a frame that was always intended for a life course of "make-sell-hang-enjoy-damage/tire of-dispose-landfill". And in that order.
 
Looks like the angle pieces were put together with a crimper of some sort.

I think this one’s a goner.

… unless, the corners look sort of like the size and width of those used by GraphicDimensions in their cheesy frames. If you get this one apart, those might work.
 
This should lead to a good reframing order. I'd suggest upgrading to museum glass along the way. :beer:
 
When I worked for Michael's the powers that be decided they wanted back loading metal frames. So, they made Nielsen create it for them. All the stores were ekwipped with crimping machines and various accessories to make these backloading frames. The idea was supposed to be that we could build these frames and hang them on the pegs with the wood frames waiting for art. They were ridiculous. The metal was thinner than their regular line. Plus, since it needed to be backloading there was no back part to the frame which made it weak. When we assemble dthe art in frames we had to have these cross braces on the backs to actually keep the frame together and keep it from bowing. The braces had to be attached with a special tool. We also needed special hanging hardware since there was no back to the frame. They were so hard to assemble and the customers did not understand all the odd hardware on the back. Once you crimped a frame you couldn't uncrimp it if you built it backwards. A lot of those frames ended up in other frameshops for glass replacement or mat changes and the shops could not take them apart without the special tool to remove the braces. We got more calls from people wondering how to dissasemble. Michael's discontinued the program about a year into it and all the crimping machines and accessories were hauled away. Like it never even happened.

Your picture looks very similar to those from Michael's but it must not be because otherwise you would have been even more baffled by the cross braces.

Ahh, good times. Good times.
 
Emi, Michael's may have discontinued those frames after a year, but they must have sold a hundred bazillion of them! They're like herpes -- they keep coming back. And I don't have the hardware to put a wire on them or anything. I just find a way to put a new piece of glass in it, and hand it back to the customer, and now it's their problem.
 
PaulSF said:
Who makes these darn things, and WHY????????
Click to expand...
The sticker on the back says "Figi Giftware, San Diego 1976" if that gives any indication...

The upside, Steve, is that you can sell him a new frame, in addition to glass replacement!
Click to expand...

Well, he finally called me back, and fortunately he wasn't pissed. I offered to get a "readymade" metal frame for him for a bit more but it's part of a set, so he'll have to wait till the wife gets back in town to get her decision if she wants to replace the whole group. :)

Your picture looks very similar to those from Michael's but it must not be because otherwise you would have been even more baffled by the cross braces.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I can't believe someone thought that was a good idea. I've seen the ones with the cross braces, but never ones like these (not backloaded, but heavy-duty crimped corners) before.
 
A couple of ways, one: use a small chisel and from one end useing a tapping motion it will come off. Second: with the use of a hacksaw cut from the back side. Good luck.
 
Can you say, " This can't be done. However, I have a couple of options for you..."

It's a lesson in being observant at the time the piece is taken in...no surprises.
Nope. Can't be done. Won't even try, because I know it can't be done, from experience, I can rip it apart, but not put it back together. Needs a new frame, etc.

Learning to just say no...with options..
 
I've known Todd Figi since the 1960s. He mass produces pre framed art for the gift industry. This frame was not ever meant to be a frame that you could take apart. This is one of those crank em out wonders that look great, and that is all. If you break the glass, your out of luck, you need a new frame.

Do not waste your time on this one. Call the customer and explain that you neglected to look at the back. He needs a new frame. You can try bashing the frame apart using the methods described in the above posts, however, you are taking a risk of destroying the valueless art it contains. I think you are going to have to eat crow on this one.

I've got a lot of stories about Todd, he is a good guy who knows how to run a business. His products are mostly low cost, wholesale only. They always look great when they are new. He pays particular attention to styles and trends, and will invest huge amounts of money to produce new lines every year.

I haven't seen him in years, I'm not even sure he is even in business anymore. I know he did very well, and has probably retired and living the life most of us can only dream about.

John
 
Val said:
It's a lesson in being observant at the time the piece is taken in...no surprises.
Click to expand...

I totally agree with you there.. however in this case the owner was with a customer and the guy just dropped it off - she didn't even have a chance to really look at it.

I've seen the occasional wood frame with the angled back and steel shank punched in sideways (not underpinner).. forget what that's called. And I've always said sorry, no can do. So in her defense this is the first metal I've ever seen that I couldn't refit.
 
Yeah, I figured you knew all about them John.. thanks for the info, I'll pass it on to the customer and see what he (his wife that is) decides to do. I do have a bad feeling in my gut about destroying it in the process, so hopefully they'll just live with it.
 
Pretty easy actually

Get hold of a roto-zip set the depth gauge on it and run it down the middle of the bracket,
(yea!) slips right out with a screwdriver. Just let him know that this is the only way to do it and any damage to frame is his responsibility. I do not think though if you are very careful and use a slow methodical approach you will have a problem with the metal cutting roto-zip tip.
 
This needs a bit of 'percussive maintainance'. If you can get the corners apart with a bit of hammering on the inside, without damaging the moulding, you could re-assemble using the 'proper' screw-tight corners. That's providing the moulding is a mainstream range and you can get the corner hardware.


*there was a topic concerning the reapairabilty of mass-produced frames just recently on the UK forum. The manufacturers will shave every percentage for max profit. Unfortunately, this can make the repair of these frames very problematic. At least the corners on this frame were strong. Some fall apart after taking the wrapping off.
 
I don't mean to be a wet blanket, but Steve's question was serious. Some of the responses would be better suited to Warped Moulding.

Steve, it's interesting that you have stumbled into the exact situation I experienced a few years ago. My employee took in a frame for repair -- glass replacement as I recall -- and neglected to look at the back. We didn't notice the strange hardware until the day before it was due to be completed. The customer did, though.

The corners are assembled in a way similar to that of our standard compression fittings. However, instead of screw pressure, the compression is accomplished by crimping the metal parts where you see the little smiley faces.

Desperately hoping to avoid eating the infamous crow described above, I took some chances. I figured that if I ruined it, I could replace it with a stock frame of similar appearance at no charge. I didn't consider the possibility that the customer could have had a matched set of 50 of them.

Anyway, I was able to disassemble it by tapping one end of the steel corner piece using a hammer and punch. It was a tight fit, but came apart without bending the moulding much. We did the repair after tapping out two corners to remove one rail.

Reassembly consisted of tapping the corner hardware back into place. In order to secure it, I placed a glob of epoxy putty under the steel plate, which I figured would grab the crimps from beneath.

I explained all of this to the customer, suggesting caution that one rail might be looser than the others. I offered to replace the frame if the corners came apart. I guess my experiment worked, because it never came back. The customer did, though.

If you decide to try the tapping procedure that worked for me, I suggest removing a side rail. That way, the gravitational stress of hanging would not be working against the crimps you tapped out, and the stress would be on crimps remaining intact.
 
John-

Todd is still in San Diego, though he sold his company. You will find him (and his new wife) almost monthly in the society section of any newspaper or magazine, especially for events art related.

Todd has a fabulous art collection and recent loaned many pieces to a show at the San Diego Museum of Art.
 
Jim-We had one of these "wedge" type frames and actually got the legs apart by "gently" hammering with a wooden block to dislodge the bracket. "gently" means we got a bigger hammer until one "fit". It so thoroghly scarred the inside of the leg that it could not go back together.

Finally made them a new metal

In retrospect, the new frame probaly cost us about $4-5, but we spent probably an hour.

I think we only made that mistake 2 or 3 times more

Been years since we have seen one. Today we just do not accept frames like that or rejoin most any other frame, either. No matter what we charged, bank on the fact that it was way, way too little
 
Rob Markoff said:
John-

Todd is still in San Diego, though he sold his company. You will find him (and his new wife) almost monthly in the society section of any newspaper or magazine, especially for events art related.

Todd has a fabulous art collection and recent loaned many pieces to a show at the San Diego Museum of Art.
Click to expand...

Bet he didn't put his art collection in those metal frames!
 
Rob, I knew Todd's first wife before he did, she was a regular customer at the old Aaron Bros. store in La Jolla, where I got started in this industry. She used to flirt, in just a fun way, with me. I was married, so I never let it go any further.

A few years later, after I had gotten a divorce, and I had opened the Aaron Bros. Midway store, that's when I met Todd. One day he drove up in a new Bentley, one of the classics. We all said our wows and I asked him how he could afford such a car. He said his new girlfriend bought it for him for his birthday.

About a month later he brought her into the store, it was the same lady who used to have fun rattling my cage at the old store. It turned out that she and her sister were a couple of the wealthiest lady's in San Diego. The term "plain" could not be attributed to Todd's new girlfriend, very nice looking lady.

Naturally I demanded to be introduced to her sister.........I got my wish. In those days tattoos and body piercing on woman were not considered all that lovely, I didn't much care for pink hair either. I don't know what it was, but I lost all interest as soon as I met her. Remember the hippie movement was just catching on in San Diego at the time. Most of us still dressed and acted fairly conservatively. She was kind of a shock to the system, if you were unprepared.

Anyway, Todd wisely married his lady. We lost contact over the years. I bought a bunch of product from him when I opened my store on Midway about twenty years ago.

I'm sorry to hear that they split, I guess nothing lasts forever. I seldom look at the society pages. They just seem like the last hoorah for the "over the hill crowd," at least the monied ones. To me it's kind of depressing, like reading the obits. Interesting, but not much fun. I always liked Todd, he was an OK guy. I hope he is happy and doing well.

John
 
Hey Paul-I'm sure it's just me, but it sounds like ol' Todd drove a Bentley, had a fantastic art collection and made the "Society" pages by selling these woefully pathetic frames.
 
Bob, Todd made his fortune by gambling huge amounts of money on what people would purchase the following year. I think the frames he used were just a very small part of his overall package, or line.

He had to guess at what pictures people would want, the colors, the frames, matting, sizes, you name it. He then had to invest a lot of money to produce all this product and have it packaged and ready to be shipped before the beginning of the season, or the big trade event, whatever they called it, that got the ball rolling.

When I was with Aaron Brothers, their wholesale division only made up the samples. Nothing was produced until they had an order for it. They got the order, they factored it out. Only then did the order go into production.

Todd was the exact opposite, he made it all before he sold anything. The guy had guts, and the moxy it took to run such an enterprise.

I placed a very large order with him one time and had it within a few days, I thought it would be at least a month.

John
 
Looks like the corners are held together with barbs like on a fish hook. Why not try drilling into the hardware at the base of the "bite"? The pressure on the barb should be relieved and you might be able to slide it apart then.

Is there any room in the channel to put a "real" corner bracket? what about a quick corner? Corner weld? :)

Drill it out, try to slip it apart. If the corner bracket isn't completely ruined you may have to resort to tapping it and putting in a screw.
 
PaulSF said:
Emi, Michael's may have discontinued those frames after a year, but they must have sold a hundred bazillion of them! They're like herpes -- they keep coming back. And I don't have the hardware to put a wire on them or anything.
Click to expand...

You gave me a great idea Paul! I have a couple of those tools, I'll have to post them on Ebay......................

It was such an odd strange thing for Michael's to do. They took a well made product and found a way to weaken it and render it useless. Had to feel for Nielsen, they pretty much became Michael's beeyatches since they beat out Crescent to be their only matboard supplier. It was a considerable undertaking to reinvent their product just at the whim of some executive somewhere. It was very clear to all concerned that the whole concept was insane.
 
I've run into a couple and to put wire on I just drilled a hole in the back.
 
But there isn't a back on the Michael's frames. That was the "beauty" of it. They made them backloading frames instead of the type that the art fit in the channel. They rekwired special hangers too. I was just glancing at Steve's photo and I realized the Michael's backloading ones didn't look like that at all. The crimped piece would have been on the inside of the frame along the side. They looked a lot like the cheap ready made backloading frames you see. Only since they needed to hold real glass they had to add the braces and special clips and hangers. I better kwit talking about them, It will make me long for the old days...........
 
Emibub said:
I better kwit talking about them, It will make me long for the old days...........
Click to expand...
Kathy, do I need to smack you one to bring you back to your senses???
 
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