How about a Needle Art survey?

Bob Carter

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
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I remarked to my wife this am that I can't remember the last time we framed needlework. She mentioned that the Mesa store (much more of an older crowd) does some periodically

We both seemed to agree that we don't see anywhere near as much as we used to, but in our PV store (where I am most of the time)is almost non-existent

Maybe a poll could answer this across Grumbledom with some follow up on maybe pricing and such
 
That's a good idea, I haven't seen but a few in the last few years.

In the 80's, I worked at a place called Knots-n-Needles in Bossier City LA. That is all we did basicly. Hundreds and hundreds of them.
The store had two sides, one for framing and one for cross-stich supplies.

Those are almost non-existent now. It's amazing how things change.

We have a shop here in town that was one of those types of stores and now they focus mainly on gifts and framing. They still have a few needle work things for the old die hard fans but not much.

I would like to know also, how many P Buckley Moss prints people are framing. We use to get as many of those as needle works and we very rarely see those anymore. We are mainly framing shadowboxes, travel art, and portraits. More personal things.


Jennifer
 
Maybe it's because it's been Winter in Nevada and there's not a lot to do here, but I think right now we have.... uh...10 x-stitch pieces pending.Seems to be making a comeback here, and we're seeing more and more done by men. Beautiful work by men, mostly retired fellows, macho doods whose wives don't stitch, but support their hubbie's "habit". I love it! You go, Guys!
 
wouldn't mind a poll, but how to answer might be a problem.

I haven't had any in a few months, but did about a dozen just before the holidays. (that's a lot for me)

Also, remember a nice run late spring last year, 3 women each brought in half a dozen each that they had done in a class.

Other than that it's kind of spotty. Like everything else it seems they come in spurts with no real predictability?!?
 
I have noticed this area shrinking quite a bit over the years. 5- 10 years ago it was much more prevelant. The die hard stitchers are still at it, but I always wondered since it is a time consuming art form if that isn't the issue.

I use to do it, when my second came along forget it. I have only gotten busier and busier like most people. I don't have the time or patience for it anymore. Is this the mentality thats out there?

I'm thinking that its interest probably runs cyclical. The last few years knitting and crocheting scarves has been hot. That is starting to fade away now as well. Even the big boxes have been seeing a decrease in yarn sale sfrom where they were.

What will be the next must do craft for people to take up.
 
I have just three customers at the moment that do needleart. One's a man. (They do tend to come in spurts.) What amazes me is that the needle-artists seem to value their time and craftsmanship more than in the past, therefore they're willing to spend a lot more on framing to enhance and protect. I don't have to convince them that their time and craftsmanship are valuable. These people are upper-middle income and higher. They are working or have worked at professional careers. I've discovered that some people stitch as their hobby that started when they quit smoking or just as the "thing" they do for themselves. The stuff I see really is much more artistic...they research history for the proper stitches, they decide they're own colors to use, as well as the stitches. It's not your basic counted cross-stitch any more. And it impresses the heck out of me! I wish I had time to create that beautiful work...but wait...I DO get to finish it just as beautifully with my framing. We have the best job in the world -- don't ya think?
 
Comes and goes..if it werent for Dianes work I wonder if I would have had any to do this winter.
 
I am going to echo Molly's comments from above.
I frame LOTS of needlework. I LOVE framing it.
My needlework customers use more museum glass than anybody else, btw. That stuff is perfect for needlework. I have several of my cross stitches framed very expensively here as samples and they generate LOTS of interest and $.

edie the addictedtoneedlework goddess
 
Most of what I have seen has been reframing of needlework. Just took one in yesterday but have only seen about a dozen in the last year.

Many of the people that do needlework are DIY type individuals. I bet that a lot of these people are buying readymades and using the famous "Sticky Board". Morons!!! (Oh did I say that out loud)
 
I just "re-did" one that came from a competitor, a "professional frame shop" that was mounted on that Sticky Board! Customer didn't realize it until I pointed it out and she was mortified. She brought it in because the mats had been reversed and she was mad at them about that. Now she's really mad at them. I will not whisper this one, coming from a "pro shop"...MORONS!!!
 
Ah yes, I remember the first framing seminar I went to in 1976 where the instructor showed how to staple needlework to matboard. Last week we reframed one done recently at a so called professional frame shop down the road from us and low and behold it was stapled! I would have to try hard to get it that crooked.
 
According to the "Craft Industry" Magazines, the (ah-hem) new craft is Knitting. Though, I don't know anyone who is in to knitting right now. Cross stitch has been on the decline for a few years. Partly due to the fact that most stitchers (and crafters in general) are in the work force now. We don't have as many stay at home Moms as we used to. Another thing that took people away from doing stitchery is the computer. People have found the internet.

Also.. there just doesn't seem to be as many good paterns out there now.

So... Most of the people who are still doing stitchery are the die-hard stitchers. Unfortunatly, they are not teaching the next generation. What we need is good CLASSES. Even the schools should know that doing a craft teaches kids not only how to follow directions, but math, colors, and logic. All schools should have crafts as part of their art program. (But then the schools in my area are having a hard time keeping the art programs.)

While I still framed cross stitch until I closed my shop (in January), I must admidt that it was only for about 5 customers. Lots of stitchery, but few stithers.
 
I frame a lot of needlework (39% ytd). In fact, it represents the largest segment of work I do. It is quite seasonal, lots of work in the Spring & Summer, with some in the Fall and not too much in the Winter. I guess they're all busy with their projects in the Winter? Most of the other frame shops nearby don't seem to want to deal with the stretching, etc. It helps to advertise, encourage referrals and such. I run an ad in the local stitcher's club and work closely with a nearby successful needlework shop. I also have several samples framed and on display in the shop.
kaffeetrinker_2.gif
 
I have a customer that doesn't sew a stitch that brings them in from auctions/garage sales and reframes them. I think she's a posing for the ladies on the block.
 
I have exactly one steady needleart customer. Since August of 2004 he's brought in 23 pieces.
(all counted x-stitch)

The only other needleart I see are reframes or "I did this when I was in college during the Johnson administration and I just found it in the attic". In the same amount of time there've probably been half a dozen of those.
 
We havn't had a noticeable drop in needleart works here, and from a basic observation (rather than stats) I can say that the number we do has grown proportionally with our framing order in general.

I would be very interested if there were a trend in the US, what would your kwestions be Bob? I'd be willing to put it together for you to learn from the info.
 
Why, Yes, Trapper, as a matter of fact I do! LOL!!

The needlework industry is indeed in a downswing, for many of the reasons listed already, but also for other reasons. One of them being copyright infringement. I won't get started on it except to say that it is so bad that many designer have quit or are considering quitting because of it. They just can't make ends meet if patterns are stolen instead of sold.

ANYWAYS.....
shutup.gif


as for needlework framing - we get a lot of it. Last week I stretched 15 - 20 pieces and before I could even get mats on them we had several more in already. It's been a week and it's time for us to stretch again. On average, I'd say that we get anywhere from 3 to 8 pieces in a week. Summer is slower for this because people are gardening, etc in the summer. In the colder months ( here it's from September to May) people have more time to stitch because they are hiding from the cold


I'll tell you some things I've learned from hanging around the XS boards:

there are some stitchers who do larger projects and put a lot of time into their projects and think that it will be a family heirloom. These are the people who will come into your shop and get NICE framing done because they believe that it merits the best quality.

There are some stitchers who stitch more than they get custom framed. They will bring only their special projects in for framing because they can't afford to get everything custom framed. Mostly gifts for other people.

There are some (many) stitchers who will look for the cheapest possible alternative, including substandard materials and doing it themselves. They all say that custom framing is too expensive.

Then there are some who literally have boxes or drawers FULL of finished pieces that they will never do anything with because they just can't or won't pay to get them framed, and don't think they have the talent to do it themselves. For many of them this is a full time hobby and they just do it because they are hooked on it.
shrug.gif


many of the people who want to do it themselves to save some money will order their frames online from places that will cut and ship cheap. I've never visited one of these sites, but I'd think that they have few choices of style so they can afford to offer it cheaply. Some are the kind of places where the sides come premade in different lengths and you would order 2 X 10" and 2X14" sides and they just "fit" together easily.

I will say, I'm hooked too - have been for 17 years and still going strong!
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I get a lot, but sell it too - anyway, trends here are different.

For those that are, or could be put off by expense, we have a lot of framed needlework around the place with the backs open to show how they are laced. We tell them that if they can stitch the design then lacing should be a doddle, it's just time consuming which is why their job is going to cost more than say a print the same size.

A lot have a go - make the order for the frame and leave with an offcut of matboard for stretching and return having done a nice lacing job.

Some stuff it right up and appreciate why you charge for it.
 
Originally posted by MollyB.:
I wish I had time to create that beautiful work...but wait...I DO get to finish it just as beautifully with my framing. We have the best job in the world -- don't ya think?

Welcome to the Grumble, MollyB! And yes, I think you'll find most of us feel the same as you do, and nice to hear it said one more time!
I feel particularly so with needleart pieces. I used to do quite a bit of it,in fact, that's what launched me into being a framer, used to frame mine and my mom's pieces when I was a teen (laced and everything! and did a darn site better than some we see now, duct tape and staples and such!)

It helps when you can tell a stitcher, and mean it, how much you appreciate his/her time and talent it takes, and the number of hours to complete. And the art that's being created these days is just breath-taking! Like today's quilting, it's not Yo Mama's stitchery anymore!
 
The last two needlework shops in the Denver Metro area are both closing their doors as of this weekend. One is just up the street from me. I went in to talk with her. She has been in business for 9 years and says it has been on the downward spiral for more than a few years. Since yarn is so big she had been adding yarn to the mix but, it was too little too late.

Yarn and knitting are huge here. I see it where ever I go. Even Target is offering knitting kits. Some knitting clubs started in LA several years ago and it became trendy and hip to knit. A lot of celebrities even joined. I used to knit a lot, until I got my first cat and he would hang on the end of my knitting needle and mess my guage up. Wish I had time to pick it back up again, it was relaxing. Plus, now I know better, I would just poke the cat in the eye with the needle to show him what for......
 
Originally posted by Emibub:
The last two needlework shops in the Denver Metro area are both closing their doors as of this weekend. One is just up the street from me. I went in to talk with her. She has been in business for 9 years and says it has been on the downward spiral for more than a few years. Since yarn is so big she had been adding yarn to the mix but, it was too little too late.
This is how we came to be - took over a struggling needlecraft/wool shop and added our framing. For a long time the framing carried it, now it has learned to walk.

They should have taken on a framer - not yarn.
 
They had a full service frameshop John, it is actually what kept them alive the past year or so. The yarn was selling like gangbusters too but she got herself in a situation where she could not expand into it due to money constraints.
 
Our needle art comes in spurts. We have one real regular stitching customer, Pat comes in almost monthly, love the lady dearly but man are the backs of her cross stitch a mess! I have tried to give her tips and hints and she just says, "Honey, I don't have the time to make the backs pretty too!" I have managed to educate her enough on the importance of framing them correctly and she now lets me do whatever I want with them. Otherwise we don't have any regulars, unless of course you count me!
Other than Pat we could go months without any needleart and then whamo! Four or five will come in at once. But like Handy said cross stitching and needlepoint aren't as popular right now. I wish they were as I loved to get together with my stitching buddies, but my buddies have all kinda faded away and are doing other hobbies now.

Good poll!

Julie
 
I'm game to make a poll, and one is overdue since 4/1, but i'm not sure what meaningful questions we can ask to make it interesting. I think we all agree that its on the decline. The only things I could come up with are:

-Do you think needleart framing is on the increase or decrease?
-Maybe spec out a specific job and compare our prices or the full package?
-What kind of mounting methods do you use? (sticky board :eek: , Spray adhesive :eek: , Drymounting :eek: , Stainless steel pins, tacks, staples, foamcore, cardboard, blocking board, stretchers, different types of tapes, ill need help to compile a full list)
-what else can we put in this poll?

Thanks
Mike
 
Hi Mike-Here is my 39 cent suggestion

Is this type of framing up or down

What percentage of total framing

How do you price ( UI? SQ IN? Other? )

Do you market this Specialty? How?

You are pretty skillful at these polls and am certain that it will be instructive. But, those are things that I would be interested in knowing.

I think that if you get buried in the "how to" methods of stretching,etc. it will become a "my mommy can beat up your daddy" kind of thing
 
We had a lull in needlework last year (2004) so the "Boss" did a couple of typical needle-works (one of a teddy bear for a baby's room & another of three black lab puppies romping around duck decoys) that she had me mat & frame as sales aids in the store. Of course, before I even had them ready for display, we started seeing an increase in needle-art coming in for framing or re-framing. I guess it's all in the timing! Go figure
shrug.gif
 
Has anyone ever turned their ( Buy this I mean works you have painted yourself ) artwork into a needle point? This gave me the idea of turning a few select pieces into a puzzle of sorts. You think ?
 
There are computer programmes you can get that will design a cross stitch chart from artwork. Not sure about needlepoint.

DMC will do it for you too, 'stitch-a-photo'
 
I do Trapper, but I don't use the auto create options - I acutally place each stitch by stitch, using my own artwork as a background.

not sure how you would use this to make a puzzle though??
 
John and Kathy I posted some personal opinions about the opinions in this poll as expressed by non-encourgaeing Needleart shops on the pollsite. However the biggest thing I think is that most shops i know of that aren't needleart suply shops alos really would rather not do needle art and price it accordingly. hence their trends are really indicative of the Needleart trends. but i do think it is off in the USA. But to the contray of John's experience Needle art and it's framing is what lead me into allother types of framing .I also think that some of my decrotive matting was an off shoot otf that and it taught me to do matting mounting and a few other things the HARD WAy .Which despite what it may seem like ,was a hugh advantage,since i learned a lot of fundimentakls and simple tools before i got into the very advanced equipment and techniques.

So I relish my Needlart background and I remember well some very well known Framers saying they would gladly send it to shops like mine to give them more time to do the BIG MONEY Fast turn jobs ,while I struggled streching by hand and decorating those very small works that Mrs. smith did her spare time and felt weren't worth spending a lot on.
LOL
BUDDY
 
I didn't read any of the responses here so sorry if i seem off topic.

First let me say that I absolutely HATE framing any form of needlepoint/cross stitch. That being said, my shop frames a minimum of 2 to 3 a week. Anything from little 5x5 gift pieces to full on tapestry size pieces done by our clients. We have a needlepoint store in town that we provide 10% discount referal cards to and we get at least one new client from them a month. Hate the work...love the money.

Slightly off topic...mirror/glass shops are awesome sources of custom mirror jobs too. 10% discount on one mirror = 1 new client. Can't beat that with a stick. Well you could but then the client wouldn't ever come back to someone that beat them with a stick.
 
I look at needle art as similar to clothing fads and scrap-booking. Every generation has their fads which they believe is totally their own discovery.

Scrap-booking is very popular right now, but it is not new. My mother-in-law was a scrap- booker way back in the 20's & 30's. After she died we went through her things and found scrapbooks that have newpaper articals covering elections from the 20's all the way through the 70's, the bombing of Perle Harbor and the start of WW2, the great depression, and so much more. We found pictures of her from the 30's in some very stylish bell bottoms pants....and this genereation think that they invented bell bottoms! My generation (60's) wore bell bottoms and we thought our favorite couple Sonny & Cher had come up with this fad.

Needle art has been very popular in the past decades and never fear it to will come back again...when the new generation discovers it and believes that they found something new. In the meantime we will still have the die hards who will never quit doing needle art. With any luck some of them will pass on their love of the art.
 
Not to top you pat....but I was recently going through some of my great grandmothers things and came accross a scapbook she had done back during WWI in San Francisco. But do you realy think that needle points are a fad? I realy don't think needlepointing goes away. But that's just my opinion.
 
Brian I agree with your point. Most needleart has been around for ages, it just may change it's names. Also in todays hurried society it is considered a Hobby or diversion where in times past it was a hand craft to decorate your most precious textile objects and clothing.Which today are considered an HEIRLOOM.

So with all the other distraction that todays world offers and requires needleart can take a back seat for a while but the fact that it is still here in it's original form shows it's continued interest.

I remember when We went to NA trade shows and would come home with what was presented as the most innovative NEW technique my 80 year old mother would tell me she did that when she was a child. And sure enough, we'd look it up in the DMC Encycolpidia of Needle Art and it would have a different name but their it would be in a book that had copyrights going back to the very early 1900s.

So while it is on a downward swing I dare say that it will be here in the year 2100 and more.

Which just shows why we should treat it ALL to framing that will last as well as presrve the Art for future generations.By this I don't mean to give it a rush job and a high price to discourage it but to learn what TRUE quality work is and how it should be treated by textile C/P standards.Which is very unlikely to be learned from doing one or two pieces a week or month and wishing they had gone somewhere else or being glad we now get less.LOL
BUDDY
 
Thanks for the reply Hande.
I think you got a good handle on your interest.
What do you and others think about taking an original painting ( Done by yourself of course ) and turning it into a cross stich? I think there is software out ther for this already??
Just an idea that I have been toying about with.
I am always worried crosdsing over the fine art and the craft line. To me there is a definite distinction. Fine Art in my book is always 100% ahead of the best craft. That of course is a personal prefernce, as I am sure those into crafts would feel slighted and have a good argument for me.
Just what is considered a craft? Also another question of personal prefernce. So many questions and not enough time to ponder them all.
 
Is isn't that I think needlepoint is a fad. What I believe is that like many hobbies, they come and go, and ususally when they come back it is with some twist, such as scrap-booking. There is so much more scrapbooking these days than in the past. Now they have clubs who get together to work on their books.

Needlework will never go away, but it isn't as strong as it once was. When it gets to be a more popular hobby again it will be bigger and better than ever. Somebody will invent something to make it so.
 
Trapper your question about turnning an original painting of your own into a cross stitch pattern has been done by some professional Companies as well as in adds in a few needlwork periodicals. There are as you mentioned COPYRIGHTED programs and scanners and PCs attched to camcorders that do this ALREADY and all are readily available to evn the common stitching consummer( some at retail outlets).

My problem with you question is if the Original painting is your own and is good enough to be considered FINE ART, why then would a Cross Stitch image of the same subject that is equally well done be ONLY A CRAFT?

It seems to me that the conotation of a CRAFT by you implies that the renedring the image in cross stitch form ,some how lessens the quality of the Image. IMHO if you do both and produce an equally good image you have increased the skill required to the work not decreased it and therfore it is no way less a FINE ART ;but maybe more.

Do you truly think all ARTIST ( regardless of their medium) can produce just a fine a cross stitch image as really good Needle ARTIST? I dare say many cannot. Just as many Stitchers can not use a brush and oils or even pencils.

I have already told the story of entering the Crescent's Star Burst Specifier of a mat pattern produced by Brian Wolf in an art auction under the title "IT"S AN ART" .While a lot of paint and brush artist didn't agree I dare them to reproduce it.

I also know that many Photographic works are entered in the same Auction and accepted as a true Art Form .Doesn't the Camera have a lot to do with what they produce? But in the hands of those Photgraphic Artist our snap shots don't compare even when done on the very sanme Camera.

Pat's contention that Needlework will become Bigger and better when something is INVENTED to make it so ,is also a misunderstanding .It may increase the interest but the skill needed to utilize all the already invented tools and any new ones is what makes a SKILL a TRUE ART FORM and not it ease of application or increaed interst because of the same.

IMHO if you use the most basic of tools and produce the same or better quality of an Art form you are MORE OF AN ARTIST then if it can be done with little or no effort and some great invention or innovation.But even when these aids are available the ARTIST that PERFECTS the skill of useing the most innovative tool is the ARTIST and what they produce is an art no matter how Crafty their hand work may be.

BUDDY

Would it be wrong to say that the Painting is the result of an ARTIST "CRAFT"? so why is the use of the word CRAFT an implication of some how inferior application?

Couldn't a CHIEF learn thier CRAFT at a School of CULINARY ARTS?

So why do the two word imply something etirely of different quality?
 
After 4.5yr at JoAnn's, I can attest to the changing trend in crafting. Just walk into any store and the yarn sections are doubling and the stichery sections shrinking. Also, macrame is getting "hot" again.

For those of you with "quality" stichery customers, look into www.mysticstitch.com. Anyone who has customers that do petipoint, will love this site - and you for recommending it.

At my new shop, we do 1-2 stichery pieces a month. Now if the customer that insisted we put double mats and NO GLASS would have just listened... She loved it...and we cringed.
 
I've heard numbers thrown around from many different viewpoints and needlepoints... [couldn't resist]

My sister who is also very involved with the quilting industry puts the "fabric" craft industry at over $16 billion last year in North America alone.

Sounds a little high to me, but I just cross it up to too many stitches. [She's on the mend though].

I have a wonderful needlepoint waiting for me when I get back.... according to the history, it was done sometime between 1780 and 1790. It is turned over pine boards and show no signs of burning. It was backed with layers of newpaper and we finally found the date Feb 26, 1944.
 
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