Honing design skills

[cwphoto]

Hello folks:

I'm in my second year of framing, so still consider myself to be a novice, particularly when it comes to design. I have over 20 years of woodworking experience, so I really don't run into too many problems with the craftsmanship part. I've also been in photofinishing for 21 years, so not exactly new to being self-employed. I do tend to find I struggle quite a bit with customers, and have gone through various methods for design. For a while I was really gung ho on the visualization systems, but now find they have a lot of problems (color accuracy for one), and to they take a lot of time. About the only time I am using them now is when somebody is on the fence about two particular designs, and I usually suggest I e-mailed them the final two versions, so they're not hanging around waiting on me. In general, I think they just take too much time.

So I have gone back to traditional mat corner samples. my normal procedure is to look for dominant versus predominant colors in the original, and try to as quickly as possible select those colors as I talk to the customer about other details such as where the piece is going to be hung, what they like about the piece, etc. I tend to prefer going with predominant colors for the outside or first mat, and then look for reaction. If I'm not getting, any other than negative, then I start playing around with the order of colors.

Sometimes the customer starts going to the sample rack, and then I feel like I've lost them and I'm no longer directing. I try to tell people that we really don't want to be choosing colors that are not in the piece, and to stay away from colors that are brighter or darker that what is in the piece, talk about the contrast of two mats versus the contrast in the piece, etc.

Despite all this, I have many instances where I go past 20 min. and some into 30 min., which to me is too much time and feel like I'm doing something wrong. I'm not sure if others have suggestions on how to direct the process or hone my design skills. I also don't really know when it's appropriate to suggest fabrics or suggest a fillet over a double mat, other than just to watch for reaction.

I suspect that all of this does get better with more experience, but there must be some guidelines. I'm betting the seasoned pros on here are just smiling. Perhaps what I'm experiencing is pretty much normal, don't know, but really want to become a better designer and streamline the process.

Suggestions?

Troy

 

[Dave]

It is normal, Troy.

I usually take pause to look at the artwork with the client and ask what colors they want to bring out. This elicits different responses that give me a clue both to how much they want to be involved in the selection and what colors they like. I also ask where it will hang, formal room/informal, etc. This will help give you an idea of its importance and what look might be best.

My next step usually is to pull out about 6-10 mat samples that might fit the criteria for a double or even triple mat, if warranted. Trying various combinations of those colors, putting some back and pulling a few others to try, suggesting fabric, etc.

Next we talk frames. I do the jeweler technique of pulling out no more than 3-4 items, judging their reaction and immediately putting away any that have been determined not to be the best. I continue this process until they are happy and then tell them I want to push just a bit further and try a few more samples. I let them know I do this to either reinforce their decision or send us off in a new direction.

Usually while they are looking at the two or three finalists frame samples, I measure, input mats, etc and then talk moulding again and pick the winner. Only then do I quote the price. Often with clients I have worked with before I will tell them I'll call them with the price if they even care. Usually the ones I've worked with before don't really require calling until the work is ready.

This is never fully scripted and I make a point of never looking at a clock and allow whatever time it takes to get a design the client is happy with. Sometimes it may be 5 minutes and sometimes an hour, depending on complexity of design, how well we hit the design nail on the head and the decisiveness of the client.

My walk rate is near zero. I don't feel it is because I am inexpensive (I'm not), but rather because people trust me and appreciate the unpressured time I take with them to find what they like so that they will be thrilled with the work.

 

[framah]

Just a little aside here... dominant and predominant mean the same thing.

 

[Prospero]

I find that the matter 'what goes with what' is far more complex than can be reduced to a set of rules, or even guidelines. I've noticed that a lot of framer's cling to a narrow set of variations on a theme that they seem loathed to deviate from.

I am at present re-framing a pastel. It had a mat on it that frankly, looked awful. It must have annoyed the customer also or why would they want it changed? But I can sort-of get a hint of of the framer's thinking. It's a bluey-gray picture ergo it needs a bluey-gray mat. And a blue frame. They followed this 'rule', but the one thing they didn't do is to actually take a good look at the thing. This after all is what pictures are for.

There is no ideal design for a particular work. People have different tastes.

One thing people tend to think is that if there is red in the picture, putting a red mat (or red accent on the mat) on it will 'lift' or 'pick up' the reds in the picture. Actually the opposite is true. Putting a green mat on it will make the reds seem redder. Although if you did that it would more than likely look very garish. Better to put a neutral shade around and let the picture speak for itself.

I'm not a big fan of visualisation systems. They may demonstrate the proportions, but you just cannot get a complete impression of a frame by photographic means. Mouldings are notoriously hard to photograph. And every person's monitor will show a different color.

 

[Dave]

There are no rules in design... there are only guidelines.

Most good design follows the guidelines. Most great design doesn't.

 

[DVieau2]

Hi CW.....another Photo guy here.

How often do you spend 20 minutes with a clueless, smartphone, $2.00 customer? At least in framing you get a decent ticket from your investment in time.

FWIT: I am very quick to let my customer wander, hunt and peck through my selection of frames and mats. Sometimes, if their having fun, I'll leave them alone to browse. My favorite line is "I'm going around the corner to press a few buttons".

In 25 years I never had a judgement (in front of the customer) about what made a fine 5x7 so I'm OK with someone designing their own frame package.
I'm there to help but most of all I'm there to make the customer happy.

Doug

 

[Rick Granick]

I would suggest going to the website of Picture Framing Magazine (PFM) and looking up articles about design and sales. There have been many good ones over the years, and I'm not sure which ones are available on the site. Greg Perkins (of Larson Juhl) is a good source for design ideas and approaches, and Jared Davis's sales and customer relations articles are always good. Greg also wrote a book featuring great frame design ideas.
Rick

 

[neilframer]

There are no rules in design... there are only guidelines.

Most good design follows the guidelines. Most great design doesn't.

Word!

You have to be confident and present this confidence to the client.
They will most often respect this.

Sometimes you will get a client who, when you show them the best design that looks great to you based on all of your experience, and it's all good and they will say "I don't like it, what else can you show me?".

Then the client picks out something that looks horrible and they love it.
Now, what do you do?
I look at every job as if I'm doing it for myself or a best friend.
Sometimes you've gotta' tell the client "No, you don't want that".

Then you do the dance and try to swing them to a design that looks good.
Then you have to throw in personal taste.

Hey, this is why we make the big bucks!

 

[mbboston]

Hi Troy,

Design is something even the most experienced people in the field could struggle with. I have been doing design in various capacities since mid 1980's (architectural, interior, graphic and framing).

Questions are very important. In addition to some questions mentioned above I always ask if this will be a dominant artwork on the wall or not. What kind of furniture is in the room? I think you would benefit going back to simple design basics. Using neutral color mats and classic frames always works well. Using 8 ply instead of double mat adds depth. Simplicity in design is not wrong in fact it often looks sophisticated. If you look how museums display works on paper it is always understated and simple design. I don't use much strong colored mats, they often just distract and move the focal point away from the artwork. I don't know what line of frames do you have, but good example of classic less expensive and well done frames is Larson's Hudson line.

The most important rule is to give customers something they like and would be happy with. When I identify what is they respond to I would show 3 options. We do a lots of high end work and I average an hour with each customer. Logically the price reflect my time and is included in materials markup.

Fillets could often appear harsh and heavy around works on paper but if you use them next to the frame it could look great. I like coloring 8 ply bevel and I use it often. Fillets tend to look good with fabric mats. Fabric has texture and balances heavy fillet appeal particularly if you are using fillet inside a mat opening. There are many examples on my website, some 250 photos. Most are closed corner frames but similar affect could be achieved with less expensive frames.

 

[Dave]

I often tell a customer, when they pull down an outrageously ornate frame, that, with few exceptions, if you notice the frame first when you view an art work, the item is not well framed. A frame should draw you into the work and compliment the work and not be a distraction. Only after you view the work should you also say to yourself, "Geeze, that is really nicely framed too!".

Notice, I said with few exceptions. One would be if framing to historically correctness. An example would be using an ornate closed corner gilded frame with patriotic ornamentation on a portrait of a President or a Cassetta frame on a small devotional icon. Another example on the other end of the spectrum would be sports memorabilia which often have elaborate mats incorporating team logos or other strong elements.

Even when using elaborately ornamented frames it is important to look at the ornamentation and make sure it compliments the work and is not a distraction.

As framers it is easy to get carried away with over design to the detriment of the work we are entrusted with.

I have several thousand moulding samples in my design center along with about a thousand mat samples, a couple hundred fillets and 350 fabric samples. Not everything is out on display, but I know where they are if I should need them. Why so many? You can never have too many elements to work with when doing design. Many samples I have never used. Some once or twice. Of course the 80/20 rule applies too. But people do come to me for unique and tasteful design and I want to be able to deliver just that.

 

[Ylva]

Design is all about taking time with your customer. If your objective is to get them out the door as quickly as possible, stick with very simple basic choices. Don't forget they can get that at any store though. I firmly believe in 'getting an experience', not 'just frame it' approach.

I operate very much like Dave and Mira and the time spent is reflected in the final price. I rarely spend less than 30 minutes with a customer. I like showing different options and by keeping the conversation going, I usually pick up perfectly what they like or not.
I keep the conversation light with a touch of humor. If I don't get a reaction (and some new customers are like that) I tell them to tell me when they absolutely hate the design and they won't hurt my feelings. Or I put two designs down and ask them about it. There is no 'one approach fits all' in design or in conversation with customer.

It's all about interacting with your customer. The time you take with them will bring them back next time.
I can't count how many time the reaction has been; "oh, I didn't know this could be so much fun". (or, "wow, I've been here two hours")

If they don't have time to design properly, I sometimes ask if they are willing to leave it with me, I will design a few options and ask what time would be good for them to come back to look at it and it gives me a bit more time to get the best design possible.

I don't like to be rushed, the customer shouldn't be rushed either.

 

[Grey Owl]

Also, having samples (on the wall) of different design styles, margins, etc., can help.

For frame moulding I have four displays of 2ft x4ft. This gives a sampling but does not overwhelm the customer.

We can look through them, and then if I get an idea of what they like (and I think will work) I will grab one that is close but say "this might work, but let me get another one" Then I go to a box that has some similar, open the box, and pull out the one or two that look good.

Whoops got a customer got to go

 

[cwphoto]

I wanted to thank everyone who took the time to respond. I read through everything twice! I think I was a little misunderstood about my comment about time. I don't necessarily object to spending more time with a person, but I do find there is kind of a visual fatigue factor, both for myself and the customer. If things are going really great, and we are both having fun, then no problem. If, on the other hand, things seem to be getting worse instead of better, I can sense the frustration from the customer. Anxiety and tension do not make for creative thinking, but instead cloud our judgment IMO. Do others here agree? This fatigue factor is my concern about time. 2nd, I think it can put doubt in a customer's mind as to my level of expertise. If I go to my mechanic and he cannot find the problem after 15 min., I start having my doubts about his abilities. I'm assuming the average customer is also making this kind of judgment about my abilities. So, these are some of my concerns about time.

I do appreciate the comments about rules and design. I have a BA in photography, and do remember my design classes. We focused on specific elements of design. One week it was photographing nothing but patterns, one week we photograph circles, we had to illustrate various words, "envy", love, cold, strangers, etc. I'm sure after a while the guidelines we are talking about become second nature, but for now, I think they are very helpful for me at my stage of development, just as they were when I was first learning about photographic design. I don't think I'm so naïve that I don't know when it's appropriate to break the rules, but choosing colors that are already in the image, and choosing values that are similar to the image are not bad starting point IMO. I never forget that sometimes black works, and neutrals go with just about anything, but I seem to have gone through my "neutral" phase, and everything started looking the same. How many of you go through phases in design?

I especially like the comments about keeping things simple. I am reminded of a number of Frank's fabric designs that use embossed and 8 ply mats, that are rather monochromatic, and neutral in tone. Simply stated and quite eloquent. I think I needed a reminder that simple is good.

I had kind of forgotten about picture framing Magazine. I think I was waiting for the magazine to show up in the mail, and if I'm not mistaken this is an online publication only? I did not even think I was a member, and then realized during the sign-in process I was renewing things. It's a decent source of information, just wish they had an actual magazine they mailed out.

Best,

Troy

 

[Ylva]

PFM is still a magazine and whenever I'm out of inspiration I just browse photos.

For me, design is more intuitive but of course, we all have things coming in that don't inspire us at all and we have no idea what would work and might look great.
I have moved more into fabric and textured mats which add more interest usually. I don't know how many framing samples you have, but redoing your walls can inspire too. When you take all samples off and put them elsewhere, you sometimes realize how really beautiful some of those mouldings are and you might get inspired to use them on your next order.

Another thing you can do is frame a ton of samples. First of all, it helps a customer see what you can do and it might reassure them that you know what you're doing. Second of all, it will give you some more ideas, as you can design these at your leisure. You might not be able to display them all at once, which is a good thing since you can rotate your samples so you have something fresh on your walls all the time.

 

[Dave]

I find that I definitely go through phases in design. Right now I am very much into solid core mats and wish that there was far more selection in solid core. I also do quite a bit of reverse bevels preferring the look to showing a white bevel unless the artwork is on the same white surface.

I like stacking frames, floating artwork on fabric wrapped backing boards, surface mounting gallery wraps on large flat mouldings and long walks on a sandy beach at sunset.

 

[cwphoto]

PFM is still a magazine and whenever I'm out of inspiration I just browse photos.

For me, design is more intuitive but of course, we all have things coming in that don't inspire us at all and we have no idea what would work and might look great.
I have moved more into fabric and textured mats which add more interest usually. I don't know how many framing samples you have, but redoing your walls can inspire too. When you take all samples off and put them elsewhere, you sometimes realize how really beautiful some of those mouldings are and you might get inspired to use them on your next order.

Another thing you can do is frame a ton of samples. First of all, it helps a customer see what you can do and it might reassure them that you know what you're doing. Second of all, it will give you some more ideas, as you can design these at your leisure. You might not be able to display them all at once, which is a good thing since you can rotate your samples so you have something fresh on your walls all the time.

I think your advice is good and you're not the first person to recommend I hang more samples. There's nothing like visual aids to sell customers as well. Fabrics are a tough sell for me as they are considerably more expensive than paper mats. If you're talking about hand wrapped fabrics, there is no question there's more labor involved, and in my location shipping is a definite factor too. I really like the look of the fabrics, but for the reasons mentioned I don't sell a huge amount. I particularly like the look of fabrics with fillets, and I believe one other person mentioned they like this look as well. It's very easy to fall into a rut too for me, and start selling the same thing over and over, i.e. my neutral phase... I bet others are guilty of this too at some point.

I suspect if you do anything enough times it does become intuitive. I've been producing fine art Giclee' prints from the beginning-- when no one even knew what the heck they were. I feel as though it's now an intuitive process as to the fine tuning and tweaking, but definitely not when I first started. I remember playing around with various manufacturers color management systems, different printers and papers, and learning to work within the limitations. The process was not at all intuitive, in fact counterintuitive would be more like it!

I suspect once I get about 5000 framing jobs under my belt, it will become intuitive as well, but at the moment there's been less than 100, so this process is not intuitive for me. Some pieces are extremely easy to design, but usually it's a process. I sure like when my first choice is the best or things just fall into place. I can recall the same thing happening with photography when I started. At first you pay attention to why things work, analyze what you're doing, and then gradually it just becomes second nature. I suspect at that point is where the really good designs start happening.

I also get a lot of out of focus snapshots that definitely do not inspire me. I will usually work up a multiple opening mat, or do a type of collage, add some embellishment, etc. and the customer usually walks away happy. I'm just glad I don't get that kind of stuff all the time, or I might be thinking about a different profession.

Thanks again for all the useful tips folks. BTW, what does one need to do to get PFM mailed to you? I paid for the thing over a year ago and have never received an issue in the mail, so don't get it.

Troy