Hobby???

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artist

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
Joined
Sep 7, 2000
Posts
326
Loc
Uniontown, OH USA
An old distributor of mine once told me that about 85% of custom framers in the U.S. do not make a living at framing (he has since gone out of business). He sugessted that it is a well paying hobby and that most framers have something in their back pocket, i.e. a retirement, or some other form of outside income. Any thoughts?
 
Artist-Unfortunately, I don't think you're off too much. But I think a better measurement would be"If you were an investor, would you invest in your own business"? There are two points that I think need to be made. 1. Rob Markoff ran a seminar in Phoenix on Pathways to Profit sponsored by Larson. It was not a full room, but almost every one in there already knew it all. Yet I'll bet a dozen Krispy Kremes that with the exception of two people, there wasn't any one with a 6 figure income, and I'm only sure of one and guessing on the other. 2. In spite of this seminar sponsored by Larson our trade still doesn't address successfully the single most pressing ailment afflicting our trade, that's exactly the point you raised. The 85% desrve better, but where do you realistically turn for meaningful help? Do you think that the name of the publisher of PFM is called Hobby Publications by accident?
 
Hmmm,

Artist's profile says he is a retired engineer. I wonder if he makes a living from framing.

Bob Carter would probably be happy (as many of us would) if thousands of hobby framers turned to fly fishing.

The high volume low cost catalog frame suppliers are hurting the smaller (hobby) framers.

The framing business continues to change.

[This message has been edited by Scarfinger (edited November 01, 2000).]
 
I make a living at framing, but not enough for retirement. I don't plan on retiring, though, I plan on finishing my greatest masterpiece, and then dropping dead of a coronary upon making the last twist of the wire!
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arty:

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Seth J. Bogdanove, CPF
21 years framing and still loving it
 
Scarfinger-I would be happy if I could retire and go fly-fishing. But I've got to make a bunch more money first. So for now I'll treat this thing as a money making machine for a few more years. That's the way my wife and kids view it anyway-as their personal ATM machine
 
Dear Mr Carter,
I would just like to set the record straight with regards to Hobby Publications.
We have been in business for 55 years. Two of our 5 magazines are craft and hobby titles. It was in the craft industry were we got our start.
I started PFM 10 years ago with several years of experience as a framer and even more in art.
We have striven in the last 10 years to provide the best information available on framing to retailers. We have been fortunate to have such contributors
such as Jay Goltz who is considered to be one of the best businessmen in the industry. We have Hugh Phibbs who writes on preservation, he is the framer for the National Gallery in Washington not a bad credential, How about Bill Adair who writes on frame history, he is considered to be a leading authority in this area.
The list can go on. To say that we appeal to the hobbyist is an insult to those professionals who have contributed to the success of this magazine over the last 10 years. These are not professional writers but professional framers and business people, all experts in their fields
And most generous in their contributions to this industry.
None of us exist in a vacuum, PFM for many retailers is place where they can turn for new ideas, see new products, and see new techniques as well as review time tested ones. For the new people entering the industry it is a valuable resource. I'm sorry you feel the way you do, perhaps your just way beyond any of us.
Bruce Gherman
Publisher PFM

We have striven in the last 10 years to provide the best information available on framing to retailers. We have been fortunate to have such contributors
such as Jay Goltz who is considered to be one of the best businessmen in the industry. We have Hugh Phibbs who writes on preservation, he is the framer for the National Gallery in Washington not a bad credential,How about Bill Adair who writes on frame history, he is considered to be a leading authority in this area.
The list can go on. To say that we appeal to the hobbiest is an insult to those professionals who have contributed to the success of this magazine over the last 10 years. These are not professional writtters but professional framers and business people ,all experts in their fields
and most generous in their contributions to this industry.
None of us exist in a vacuum, PFM for many retailers is place where they can turn for new ideas, see new products, and see new techniques as well as review time tested ones. For the new people entering the industry it is a valuable resource. I'm sorry you feel the way you do, perhaps your just way beyond any of us.
 
Wow Bruce! I must apologize if my comments were hurtful to you or your staff. I don't know how you took it that way. My reference was to our trade and in response to how many people were hobbyists? But examine these facts. According to PPFA in the 1999 state of the trade report, they stated that 72% of their members did less than $250k, over 79% of those members earned less than $10/hr, 71% of those did workorders averaging under $150. Now as a serious magazine (and I've subscribed for damn near all 10 yrs) what have you done to improve the lot you preach to, and more specifically can you show any improvement that PFM has been responsible for these less than sterling industry standards? I'm not the enemy here and you need not be so sensitive to a remark indicating, to my mind, that this a Hobbyist-laden industry. There's a lot of great framers out there. I'm not sure we can say that about great business people in our trade. My only regret is that you didn't pick up the phone and call me. Your imagined slight could've easily have been remedied without the name calling. I doubt very seriously anyone else picked up on it the way you did. And for that I am truly sorry. But you do have my phone number and I'll gladly visit with you, but take the edge off. We might both learn something if we talk to each other instead about each other
 
Thanks Bob, I was confused.
confused.gif
I did not know where his comments came from.
I agree with you that a lot of our industry is home grown/ or "part-timers". Therefore, it looks to other buisnesses that framing is nothing but a "nice little hobby". Though, I'm happy to say, there are those of us that make a nice living from framing.



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Sue May :)
"Everyone is born right-handed, only the greatest can over come it!"
 
I am pleased to have Bruce Gherman from Picture Framing Magazine join us at the Grumble. I hope Bruce and others from PFM become comfortable at the Grumble as this is a nice neutral place to get to know and understand each other and input from industry leaders such as PFM is important.
 
It rankles me, and I find it slightly demeaning when my Father-in-law refers to our company and occupation as "a cottage industry".
I guess that is an old belief and that for some has it's merit.
 
If I reread the comments above, I do not think Bob Carter's comment was directed at PFM but as an analogy for the "hobby" reference. PFM keep up the good work, we need you.

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Timberwoman
AL
I cut the mat, I pet the =^..^= cat.
 
ArtLady- I appreciate your sentiments and really feel badly if any staffer at PFM felt slighted. My intent was exactly as you perceived. On a positive note, I sure seem to bring the heavyweights into the arena. Anybody else I should cause enough consternation to bring them into the fold? I'm open to suggestions; i seem to be good at it
 
i,like bogframe, plan to pass away while framing something spectacular.
i have been framing since the age of 16. opened my first shop at 19.
i am now 37 and have made a fine living off this industry.
i consider myself a professional not a hobbiest.
beth,silent pictures nv.
 
Voice of the newcomer here; First of all thank you to PFM for being so chocked full of information it excites the newcomer and reminds us how far it is we have to go to become what the rest of you have already achieved. I do not consider what I do a hobby, even though I will admit to a short time in the industry. This profession is incredibly interesting and endlessly fascinating. The issues addressed in every issue of PFM turn on a new light, generate a new question, and help me to believe that this is indeed a profession, not just a hobby.

That being said, I understand that there are many framers out there (and I know of one in particular) that consider the ability to cut the simple mat sufficient to his limited consumer base. The framers I have met in my short tenure have been, overall, very enthused about their craft (not meant as a derogatory term) and about the business it generates.

There is no hard and fast division between the hobbyist and the professional. Many of those whom many of you would consider 'hobbyists' are working hard to shake that monikker and join those of you who can make the claim of 'professional' legitimate. I feel it is the purpose of PFM and the Grumble to remember those of us in the gray area and help us to achieve those good or great things that you already have.

You are both doing great work. don't let us down.
 
I might have been a little put off by Bob's comment about PFM, myself. Certainly that Mr. Gherman responded as he did speaks of his professional conscientiousness. The Goddess approves! And sheesh, Bob, chill out. It is clear, I am sure, to all of us that you are as professional as they get!
But about this Hobby Thing... I know that The Goddess is a professional, and most of you out there are as well. I don't think that our industry has more than it's "fair share" of hobbyists, though! That is where I think this board is most useful... in that, folks who, let's say, are "part-time" (
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) have a place to easily and quickly get information concerning professional standards and ethics. If this serves as a reminder that what one of us does as a framer, MAY influence the integrity of another is a Good Thing.
And hey, both PFM and Bob--- keep up the good work!
 
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