Hewlett Packard - Good, Bad & the Ugly

Sherry Lee

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Joined
Jun 25, 2002
Posts
2,228
Loc
Phoenix, Az.
Just about 2 1/2 years ago (Sept. 2003) we purchased a Hewlett Packard "All-in-one" printer, fax and scanner from Costco which cost $552.00 and had a warranty of one year.

About a month ago I called HP's service tech help line because of a vertical line showing up with every copy or fax via the feeder. Yep, you guessed it, I was talking to a man in India. BUT, I could understand him. The problem was, after going into detail about the problem, he gave me that scripted speech - "it would cost $35 for him to help me since it was out of warranty". And he went on to say that "your equipment is VERY old and needs to be replaced". After blowing a gasket, he told me how to clean it so the line would be gone. Of course, the process didn't do a thing for the problem.

A few weeks after that, the same printer started making a very severe noise during the printing process and the paper wouldn't 'feed'. We took the system to the repair shop which we always use. After paying $25 for a diagnostic work-up, we were told that it was the purging unit and HP does not make replacement parts. I just spent most of this week talking to many divisions of HP to try to get this resolved. After dealing with scripted responses and tons of apathy, I broke down and wrote a letter to Mr. Mark Hurd, CEO of Hewlett Packard. In response, I received a call from their executive office and was told that indeed, there are no replacement parts and I should expect to need to replace it since it is 2 1/2 years old. After blowing yet another gasket, I shared with her that when I buy something for $550, I don't expect it to be DISPOSABLE! Yes, I expect to have to repair it from time to time, but NOT throw it out because parts aren't available.

This HP executive did make some calls to their repair & parts divisions and learned that there are some companies that do make parts, but they can cost $300 plus. To make amends, she said HP will give us $50 off another unit and throw in some cartidges. I politely asked her, "if you spent $550 for something that you knew could never be fixed, would you buy from the company again?" Of course, she could not say "no" since she works for the company, but she remarked that is was a good question. I assured her that I would share this poor customer service with every one I know and I encouraged her to share my letter with Mr. Hurd directly. She assured me it would be passed along.

I must make it clear that this last person I talked to was very professional - she was the ONLY one! AND, we have HP computers that we, thus far, are very happy with.

Also, we just finished talking with another big repair shop in Phoenix whom validated there were no parts (of this type) to be had from HP and that getting them from a secondary company would be over $200 + diagnostic fee of $50, hourly labor of $85/hour and of course, tax.

What did I learn from this?
1) Before you buy anything, make sure replacement parts are available
2) Go for the longest warranty possible (but in checking, they all seem to be a year in this case)
3) Buy separate units. In this case, one part broke and we are out 3 units.
4) HP told me the problem is due to plastic parts which they must use to keep the price down. Guess that old adage stands: "you get what you pay for".

There you have it. I'm just upholding my "civic duty". If this keeps just one person from going through the same experience, it was worth it. Pass it along if you'd like.

Okay, I believe I have one gasket left.........hmmmmmmm!
 
This is really bad.

I would forward this to the DA. After all, this sounds like a scam to me. A company, especially as big as HP, should be able to repair / provide parts for a number of years.

I bet a lawyer would drool over this issue! This screams for class action suit.

It won't get you much (they never do, maybe a coupon) but it makes HP pay dearly.
 
I'm running into the same thing with my Epson. They said that it wouldn't be cost effective to repair it and gave me a special code to loyal customers for a replacement printer. It's actually not a bad deal but it still irks me that we are such a disposable society anymore. No wonder the world is going to H**l in a hand basket!

Julie
 
You don't mention the model number and whether it is inkjet or laser technology, although you mention cartridges so I guess we're talking inkjet.

A new Officejet 6210 All-in-One can be had from Staples or similar stores for under $200. CompuBiz currently has them on sale at $135. There are other models at similar (or lower) prices. At these prices we decline extended warranties and treat them almost as consumables.

If it were me I'd take the free cartridges from HP and buy a new unit. Not sure if HP's $50 off coupon that they promised will work in conjunction with other offers from distributors, but if it will you can pick up a new unit for the cost of a couple of cartridges!
 
computers, pinters, TV's, DVD players, cell phones, etc., are designed to have a 1-3 years "relevant" shelf life, according to a computer friend of mine. They are, right or wrong, disposables due to "new technology advancements" and cost reductions (cheap parts).

One of the new difficult recycling issues is all the "old" tech-no garbage. don't they say the average home has 1.7 old computers in their closests or garages (does that go with the 1.3 kids per household?)

Good luck with your HP.
 
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This is the very reason customers don't want to spend so much on good quality framing like they use to.

They know that in 2 years they will change everything and will have to do it again, so they go to Kirklands!!!!!! and buy cheap.
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This is so not working in our favor!! :(
 
Jennifer, I think this is exactly whats wrong.. that line of thinking.

When the customer balks at $380 to frame the 2006 family portait that took 10 years of nagging, cajouling, and threats to get taken... and then they whine "framing is so expensive" . . .

"Not really. Actually framing is VERY reasonable. Buying a new printer every two years, and a new computer every three and SOFTWARE; have you seen the cost of software lately?"

Computers became consumables according to the IRS about 1994-5 cycle. To think that they are not, is the same as thinking that the car you are driving now is the last one you will have to buy.

If you shop around, you can find a toaster that is repairable, but not a TV. Hair dryer sometimes, but not a curling iron. Move on.
 
I like to check out PCMags recs. They rate products like printers and scanners. They're take on all in one machines is pretty useful!

Couldn't include the search link, but here is their website.
 
They're pretty much disposable now, and a lot cheaper. They certainly don't make things like they used to!

At an office I consult for, they still have 7 HP LaserJet II and III printers that have been in continuous service since ~1986. (20 years!) Parts are still available for these, even though I think they only have to provide parts for 3 years legally.

Make sure, if you get a new one, that it has laser technology. Inkjet technology is too expensive and fragile for a business.

We have had great luck with the Brother multi function laser machines and have 5 of them in service, the youngest is 4.5 years old. I believe they were about $220-$280 each.

Mike
 
Mike,
If 'they' are legally bound to carry parts for three years, then HP should have parts for mine - but three searches, they say they don't carry them.

My repair shop, when asked, highly suggested Brother because they can get parts from them.

And with regards to laser - you betcha, I'm going to laser! I am currently looking at 6 HP cartridges I recently purchased from Costco - they will go back next week.

My brother wrote me to say about the same as Baer. I fully understand, but I refuse to tolerate it. As I told my brother, we don't HAVE to accept such practice. Tolerating what I consider poor customer service is an apathy in our country. Apathy is a communicable disease right now. I believe it is part of why GM and Ford is where they are in relation to Toyota & Honda. We (the USA) has GOT to do better - like the good 'ol days! Obviously we are willing to pay for it - just look at the cars on the road.
 
"the problem is due to plastic parts which they must use to keep the price down"
sounds more like 'to keep the profits UP"

I have a 4yr old multi-HP that also had the line thing---only info I could get was to send it to a "regional" service center(at the time I believe that was like OKLAHOMA or some such)...finally took it apart as much as possible--in the paper paths areas, and cleaned the dickens out of it...cured the problem(either the moving of the parts or the cleaning was a cure). Just remember the world is one large disposable part......I agree with Mike---laser is where its at for longevity--just couldnt findone the was multi!q
 
FYI:
I just had a relative write me that she has had this experience many times over - not just HP. She said she turned to buying warranties with known companies like "Best Buy" that will replace the product with new if parts cannot be had. She said it's a good program.......if you don't mind waiting two months to find out the parts cannot be had. UGH!
 
Go with a laser printer. Ink printers / cartridges are the biggest scam. They always get you with the ink cartridges, who die as fast as the stupid, obsolete printer.

I have a 1740 Samsung laser printer. It has exactly one part that needs replacement: The drum/toner. It is enough for 4000+ pages. And, when a new model comes out, 1710,1720,1730, etc, they all use the same part! There is nothing else to replace. And the cost of the printer: $120. Cartridge: $70. Best printer I ever bought.

Need color? Use color laser, they for around $500 now.
 
I feel your pain.

For my new shop, I bought an Epson all-in-one from CompUSA. It was defective out of the box. So I called Epson, and they sent me a replacement unit. That, too, was defective out of the box. Now I've got two non-working printer/copiers. So I call Epson again, and they send me a second replacement. Guess what? Yep, defective out of the box.

So I toss the two replacements into the dumpster and haul the original POS back to CompUSA. They give me a credit to apply towards buying something else. This time, I decide to go with HP. I choose the Officejet 6210, mentioned upthread by CAFramer. Can you guess what happens next? That's exactly right -- it's defective right out of the box. The first time I try to use it, I get some error messages, a couple of paper jams, and then it just...expires. Won't even turn on anymore.

So I call HP, and they send me a replacement unit. I'm trying to set it up, and get as far as the print cartridge alignment, and...oh, I think you all know this part. I get an error message. So now I'm waiting for HP to send me a replacement ink cartridge, and we shall see what happens.

I'll tell you this, however. My store is within 45 miles of HP's headquarters, and I am inclined to drive over there and pitch my Officejet 6210 right through the front window.

It is absolutely appalling that after all these years, there is still no culture of quality in the computer industry. They have zero pride in design or workmanship. I like to use the comparison of a can of Diet Coke. Millions of times a week, all over the world, someone is opening a Diet Coke. And each and every time, they get exactly 12 ounces, not 10 ounces, not 13 ounces, but exactly 12 ounces, of Diet Coke. And nobody dies from it. The standard excuse from the computer industry is this: "well, our products are complex." Bullhockey. Products like Diet Coke are extremely complex, too, the result of thousands of hours of research and testing by highly trained, well educated people from a variety of disciplines. It takes a great deal of complexity to produce exactly the same desired product millions of times a day. And even more complexity is required to do that without you seeing any of the complexity behind the product.

One final word. If the computer industry adopted the culture of quality that you find in most consumer products that you eat, drink, etc., they wouldn't need tech support call centers in Bangalore or anywhere else.
 
I guess I've been extremely lucky.

I still have nearly every ink-jet printer I've ever bought. Most of them are HP, though there's a couple of Epsons in there, too.

Several of them have outlived their usefulness and I've upgraded for more features and better print quality. My biggest objection - and it's a big one - is that the ink cartridges are very rarely interchangeable.

Considering what printers cost today, I would never purchase an extended warranty for one.

And, as others have pointed out, I'd use a laser if I were primarily printing text. I'd be sure and check on the cost and availability of the consumables, though. I used a $250 laser that required a $180 toner cartridge that was very difficult to find.

I'm sure it's still around here somewhere.
 
This story convinces me that those 'extended warranty' plans with guaranteed replacement are the deal of the century.

I just bought a cheap multi-phone system that has 3 cordless handsets. At Bestbuy, the 3 year plan was only $16.25.

By dealing with the retailer, even if the model you have isn't made anymore, you get the equal. And if you think about advancing technology, that 'equal' will be a bit better that the one you bought.
 
HP's laser printers are great. We have a shop up the street that sells toner and ink cartridges, and they also repair and sell refurbished printers. They always have a nice selection of HP 5P or 6P machines, and I recently got my aunt a used HP 1200 (same as what I use here). These are great values, because many were previously owned by individuals, who didn't give them anywhere near the use that their duty cycles are rated for, so they are "cream puffs". Page counts are displayed on the test sheets for these units. See if you have a resource like this nearby too.
:cool: Rick
 
Yup, love those lasers. We have an HP1320 in the front. Great little machine, and reasonably fast.

And ... if all else fails I can always pull out from storage my old HP 4L that keeps on going, and going, and going, and going, and going, and going ... enough already ... you get the idea!

I also have an HP6210 in the back. Unlike PaulSF's experience it has worked great ... easy to install and operate, no problems, and much better than the 4 year old Lexmark X63 that it replaced.
 
I bought my wife an HP6210 All In One. It's been great. Works reliably, prints well, etc. Consumables are expensive, of course. They've gotta make their money somewhere; it's certainly not on the unit itself.

Personally, I find it odd when I hear about people having multiple DOA units of anything in a row. I suppose it happens sometimes- a bad manufacturing run, perhaps, but I have to wonder if there isn't any user-related idiosyncracy at work.

$550 for 2.5 years of service seems pricey. But it depends on how much service the unit is providing. For businesses with any real volume of paper, toner based solutions make much more sense. I'm looking at a color laser printer for my wife's office for this very reason. Lower cost per page, even when you amortize the cost of the printer over the lifetime volume of paper.
 
Doctah,
I'm thinking of getting a laser monotone printer just for the business. I seldom need color. Consumer Reports indicates that Laser is good for black.......not so good for color printing. I'm going to check further though because I think Consumer Reports is often lagging in their reporting.
 
We print a lot of special brochures, postcards, labels, class handouts, and business cards on two HP LaserJets. Sometimes the quantities are small, and sometimes we print a thousand or more at a time.

The 4500N Color LaserJet is in the office, and it does a great job on anything suitable for 4-color printing. The colors are accurate, dense and crisp. Most offset printers can't equal its quality.

Price is another matter. An 8-1/2 x 11 sheet of 90 lb. card stock costs about 27 cents to print both sides, including paper and labor. When I print 4-up postcards (4 per sheet, that is), the total cost is about 18 cents per card, plus postage, of course. Not bad.

We use a 5si duplexing machine out front, and a 4-Plus, which is still a good printer, but semi-retired as backup.
 
Consumer Reports indicates that Laser is good for black.......not so good for color printing.

Well, for one thing, it depends on what you are trying to print and what your expectations are. It also depends on whose printer you're using. There are some very fine color laser printers out there. If you use the right stock, you can get some great output.

As for Consumer Reports, I find that CR ratings need to be interpreted and not simply taken as an ordered list. One of the main things to check is the list of criteria. They don't seem to weight criteria the same way as I do, treating each criterion as if it is as important as the next. That's not the way that most people approach evaluating things. For example, they once did ratings on food processors. They rated one processor as "unacceptable" because if you were a moron you could manage to jam your hand into the bowl while the blade was spinning. Not because it was likely; because it was possible. Except for this characteristic, it was the best performing processor. Since I'm not a moron, I'd still be willing to buy this "unacceptable" item, because in the things I care about, it performed admirably. There are many other similar cases, though perhaps not so extreme. But I always look at the criteria because often an item will get an inflated rating for doing well at unimportant things (my opinion, naturally.) So take their ratings with a grain of salt. Be sure you value the things they are rating.

The good news about monochrome laser printers is that the price has really come down. As part of the technology driven market, they are forever getting better, cheaper and faster (if not more reliable.) One thing to pay attention to is "pages per month" that the unit is rated to handle. It's a rough guide as to how the manufacturer sees its projected reliability.
 
Paul: Yes, I stand corrected! Then of course, there's always the MONOTONE singer.....
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Doctah: I appreciate your comments. I just got off the phone (again) with HP executive offices. Last week I finally came upon a true professional in that office (third person in the HP exec. office). She has LISTENED to me, TAKEN EFFORT to find part availability, and upon finding out there is NO part is working with me to help make the situation right. That is my expectation from such a company - it's too bad it has taken days to find someone that can look beyond the telephone receiver. They are rare breeds!!
 
Originally posted by Sherry Lee:
Consumer Reports indicates that Laser is good for black.......not so good for color printing...
Color laser printers are inferior to inkjet for photographs, whihc is what most people want to print in color.

But a color laser is great for 4-color postcards & labels.
 
Originally posted by Jim Miller:
When I print 4-up postcards (4 per sheet, that is), the total cost is about 18 cents per card, plus postage, of course. Not bad.
You might take a look at Vista Print some time. 2,000 four-color both sides postcards come to $0.0925 ea. Their normal price for 500 is $0.20 ea, currently on sale for $0.15 ea.
 
Thanks for the referral, David. If that $0.15 includes shipping, it's probably a better deal than mine. I will check it out next time I want several thousand postcards at a time.

But I have the printer and enjoy the convenience of printing what I want, in the quantity I want, when I want it.
 
Paul, you are right! inkjets are a big ripoff. Since I only print orders and shipping labels, I got a refill kit and have refilled my cartridge 6 times. the kit cost $15, about $10 less than one new cart! The Printer companies are fighting back by putting a chips in the cartridge and even date limiting them. Some printers were warning the ink was empty before it really was. I think Epson got into a class action lawsuite over that one.

My HP is the 870c (nearly 10 years old) and it works great. I'm going laser when this one dies. I probably won't be able to refill the new inkjets that are just too costly to run.

We have several HP laser printers that are used daily in an office environment. Some of them are 12 years old. HP used Canon engines that are first rate.
John
 
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