Help with frame idea

joe90bentley

Grumbler in Training
Joined
Apr 7, 2004
Posts
12
Loc
UK
First of all - i hope this is in the right section of the forum - if not my apologies.

Ok question.
I am newish to the framing lark and would like to mount 3 pics (landscape 5 by 7) underneath each other with a single v-groove around the pictures.

Anyone got a way to make this work -measurements in and around pics etc,borders roung the pics.

Please help I have only framed single pics with double mounts etc (all the basic stuff) but would like to progress a bit further!!!!

The mount cutter I use is the frameco matmaster attached to a l-ruler- I know probably basic to u guys but have to start somewhere LOL

So any help with this would be great, and again sorry if posted in wrong section

Joe90
 
I think you would be making it too busy with v-groove around each picture. Cut the 3 openings and put one v-groove around all three.
 
thanks jpete for reply - that is want I want to do -one groove around all three!!! What size of border should I have e.g. from bevel to v-groove to the edge of frame etc = I dont wanna make a pigs ear of it!!!!

Thanks in advance to jpete and anyone else with help!!!!

Joe90
 
Originally posted by joe90bentley:
I am newish to the framing lark
I understand this post is coming from the UK, and us in the colonies are supposed to be civil and gentele about such things . . . .

<font size=7><font color=red>LARK?</font size=7></font color=red>
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call it a "Job", call it a "Hobbie", you can even call it "that thing I knock about in the basement to make pocket change to feed my Guiness habit" but some of us call it a Living, Career, or Profession.
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Does your physician just "do it on the side"?

baer
 
Originally posted by Baer Charlton:

Does your physician just "do it on the side"?
They "Practice" actually, I'd prefer Lark in that situation.
 
Hello Joe,

Welcome to the Grumble. Forgive Baer he doesn't understand British.

I recommend 1/2 - 3/4 inches between the openings. Place your v-groove 1 1/2" from the outer edges of your openings. A 3 1/2 -4" mat border will balance your v-groove nicely. Your total frame size should be about 23 1/2 height 14 width, assuming 3 horizontal openings stacked vertically.

15" total opening height (5+5+5)if pictures are horizontal.
1 1/2"(allowing 3/4" x2) between your three openings
7" Mat boarders 3 1/2 T&B
----
23 1/2 total height

7" total opening horizontal
7" borders 3 1/2 both sides
----
14" total width

A good way to decide measurements is to lay your photos on top of your mat choice and eyeball then measure before you cut!

Keep asking questions and we will keep answering. I am told there are not many places to learn framing on your side of the pond. Dermot, a frequent poster to this site and a framer in Ireland, was visiting here this week and said he is mostly self taught. He is attending the Atlanta trade show to learn even more.

The PPFA has a whole series of picture framing books on all aspects of framing, from what is a mat to how to set up shop. We can get you a list if you like.

Keep learning. The more you know the better we all look!
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FrameSpaceCadet, I understand British all to well. Being first generation American and all.

According to the Queens 'stralian to the North Hook of the Ferons "Lark" is something that is undertaken just for fun. (Unless you're in the Commonwealth of Maryland, then it's a bird. Which is not to be confused with a girl which in some parts would be a Sheila, unless you want to get backhanded by your RSA mum for being vulgar at the dinner table. But, then that would be a different tale altogether wouldn't it, eh?)

So now that you explained how to do the mat in American, don't you think you might be kind to the fella and mangle the fets to metric.

I just 'adn't got me tucker yet. No 'fence ment in fush. Jus mi' tender today.

Welcome ta the G, Joe90.

baer
 
First of all
may i apologise to Baer Charlton for my mistake in calling frame - making a "lark" - wrong choice of word LOL. Will never do it again considering hopefully in the future framing will let me get out of my dead end job and earn some respect and money as well!!!!!
To framespacecadet thanks for the info -will have a go making this l8r on and will let u all know how I get on.

Any other info about framing would be great!!!!!
A list of good books that are up to date would be nice!!!!! the only books I could find where brought out in 1978!!!!!!!

Again MANY THANKS TO ALL

Joe90
 
I would not do anything less than 3/4 " between spaces and I would Probably not go any less on that for the v from the mat openings. Spc gave good instructions but if you don't want that large a border and frame you can certainly do less. One rule of thumb (could mean lark) for me is not to have any widths the same e.g. frame and mat.

Don't let Baer shake you, he's a bit new on the Grumble as well. Don't read between the lines or take anything said personally. We are all here to exchange, inform, improve and enjoy.

Does your machine actually have a set up for making a v-groove or did you need to know how to do that also? A second mat with the bevel edge also looks sharp.

You might try a search, found at the top of the page, and get some great infomation on many framing issues.

In the future most problems of this type will get more response on the grumble forum. Possibly even start a small war.
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Welcome joe90!

For some "up to date" reading going to the ppfa website and check out the books available there.

www.ppfa.com

Selecting the "CPF Study Materials" gets you a nice selection of books covering a variety of framing techniques.

Good Luck and Have Fun!
 
Cliff,
Thanks for the website. I didn't take time to look it up. The collection of books available is quite thorough!

Baer,
I understand the protective stance you take on the framing trade! I meant it when I said the more Joe knows the better we all look. I have been framing for 20 years (with a 10 year break for raising kids) I have been well trained and I am often suprised by some questions that show up on the grumble from people recieving money to "professionally" frame items. I can only surmise that they either have not had exposure to a wide range of items a very busy store supplies or did not get great training to begin with. Of course, sometimes we are all are thrown a loop with some akward or fussy item! For this I think the grumble is terrific! Kinda like sending medical advice via internet to some remote outpost without a good medical library nearby.
I too support being well prepared to keep us from looking like "hobbiests" and to earn the amount we charge as "profesionals"

It does sound like joe isn't taking peoples money yet so our reputation as professional is still safe. ;)

Joe keep learning!
 
OK, stand down everyone. The doctor got my meds recalibrated this morning and I'm back to my usual lovable *** **** self.

Joe, You just got some of the best advice about this business. 1) it aint a lark, and you can make some serious money. 2) PPFA library, as you can shake loose money, start at the top and don't stop buying, reading, understanding, and practicing untill you get to the bottom of the list and 3) start on the Picture Frame Magazine list of books to buy, read, understand and practice.

95% of framers work in their own world, and therefore only get exposed to the things that walk through their door or articles they read. (Few buy the library).
A VERY SMALL group of us framers, have also served time as moulding reps and had the oppertunity to go into 100s of other shops. (I did meet an other framer in 1974 who was also touring around the US as a "journeyman" framer. We both worked for a place in Oklahoma City, OK, then I headed for New Orleans and he was headed for Taos, NM. His name was Peter Grit, if anyone has ever run into him. Played classical 12 string, and sang Robert Frost and Robert Service poems as songs.... his goal was to work in 100 shops before he turned 30 and inherited a smack of money and opened his own shop.)

FSC, Thanks for being the calming force here. I was loosing it and well now it's time for Mr.
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Maybe, if I'm good, they'll give me back my Thorazine.

baer
 
Singing; "Doin the Thorazine shuffle.....)

Joe, PPFA does indeed have GREAT books. You might be able to find some old books in a used bookstore or on e-bay. I have some books that are 40 years old that have some good ideas in them; the basic (mat cutting) ideas are still the same.


HERE are some books by Vivian Kistler that are outstanding.
 
Hi Just a quick update

I finished the frame (at last)!!!!
I followed the instructions as given and it came out very well
Many thanks to all who helped me out.
Now whats my next project any suggestions????

Btw heres a pic of the finished frame - comments welcomed!!!!!

tripleresize.jpg



tia

Joe90

p.s. the pics were taken by me with a Fuji S5000 digital camera - printed off using the Epson StylusPhoto R200 , and the pics are of different parts of Edinburgh, Scotland

Later!!!!
 
Joe, great job on aligning and matching the grains. Very strong feature and most would just bung it all and slap the thing together.

Nice groove. If I was going to critic anything, it would be 1) there seems to be just a little too much mat, top and sides. I'd leave the bottom for weight. But the other IMHO could use wee bit of diet. 2) Like I said, weight the bottom and 3) is just a personal design thing. I guess the night shot is in the middle because it is the only one of the three..... I would move the bottom one to the top and adjust the others down.... Reasoning: The bottom one has more of a light "airy" feel, almost "fairy tale" and would float to the top. The night picture is the most "weighty" and is therefore a "rock" to build on. IMHO. Take it for what it is.

Did you run your own moulding? I like the strong grain. Looks like Scotch Pine....(?)

baer
 
Thanks Baer for comments.
The moulding was bought from my local supplier and all I did was join it.
I never thought that changing the position of the photos would have that sort of effect - when I get a chance I will change them around and see what happens!!!

Again thanks for comments all greatly recieved and noted anyone else care to comment????

TIA

joe90
 
Great job! I agree with Baer on image positioning, but I like the mat width. I was thinking a skosh (is that a word?) more on the bottom and leave the top and sides.

With no white in the images and the v-groove, it might have been interesting to try a black core. (or not.) Just soemthing to play with.
 
Oooooh, a critique!
Joe90, my first impression was "nice, elegantly casual." And I stand by that.

I am not usually a fan of v-grooves, but this one is sensitively done thanks to the bevel color not contrasting with the mat face color. I like your mat color, btw, but we all know how stodgy this goddess is about mat colors. It works well with both the daytime and nighttime shots.

My usual instinct is to vary the distance between the openings from the distance to the v-groove. In other words, the bars between the photos would be 1", say, and the v-groove would be at 1.25" out from those openings. That said, though, it works just fine the way you have it and I would not change it. I always consider it a healthy exercise to break a few rules now and then just to see if we can get away with it.

I think your mat width is appropriate to the size and scale of the frame. I also like the luxurious width of the mat given the strong grain of the frame. I would have weighted the bottom mat width just so that the piece could maintain its verticality, but this doesn't seem to detract as it is.

Speaking of grain, the frame grain is nicely matched, happy accident or not. I'm guessing that it is ash?

It might be kind of fun to switch the positions of the photos, but I don't mind the dark, heavy one in the middle.

Who's next?

A belated welcome to the Grumble, by the way!

edie the inachattymoodtoday goddess
 
I like the wide mat, changing the v distance as edie suggested might be a good option. I like the dark one in the center, I might try flipping the other two simply as Baer suggested for the weight. You'll find your own tastes changing over time, maybe.
 
There you go Joe. hinge the back so you can come un-hinged like the rest of use, and change the pictures around as your tastes change.

Which reminds me, the "Green" pictures need to be swaped out with the "Florals" on the main floor and the Extended Family pictures to replace Our Family pictures in the Rogues gallery going up the stairs and the landing. Also I need to unpack all the "Christmas" pictures and re-touch the "Flocking" "Snow" on the "Winter" scenes. Deep cycle storage the "Summer" art and Candy Cane the drapes. ( I won't "Fall Wreath" the doors or drape the Mantle untill a week before T-Giving. Don't want to rush the holidays.)

Whoops, just looked at the calendar; time to make the Rum Balls.

See Joe, and just by hinging that back, you to can join in on all this fun....

baer
 
Thanks for all tips/comments so far!!!
I am certainly learning a lot from u people!!!
Can i ask what might sound like a stupid question -- can u explain further what u mean by hinging the back???

I am not sure what this means so help please!!!

Also next project help!!
On a tv show I saw a frame made up - the pic was about 4 inch square set in the middle of a square mat/frame with a v groove round it (i hope these dimensions help). Can anyone explain the size of mat in releation to pic/space between pic/groove/edge of frame etc???

Any help would be great!!!

TIA

joe90
 
Hinging, you place the top edge of the back side of the mat so it abuts the top side of the front of the back board and run two 2 inches (depending on size) pices of linnen tape across the two boards, flip the top mat over and you have it hinged.

It's all in the eye of the beholder. I'm sure someone can give you good reasons for the spacing.
 
JPete has that right! "It's all in the eye of the beholder"

A couple of weeks ago a gentleman came in with an 8 x 10. Walked up to the counter said, "I want this matted and framed, but I certainly DON"T WANT THE MAT THAT BIG!"

He was pointing to a Larson Model. For those who know it was the Indian in the Raphael moulding.

He wanted 1" mats and 1" moulding. That's it. He insisted.

Within hours a woman came in with a picture of the same size. Looked at the same model and said, "I want this matted and framed and I like my pictures to have PRESENCE! That (pointing at the same model) is a good start, but I think we'll need to make the mats bigger."

In truth I didn't care for the results in either case, but the customers were thrilled.

Look back at say the 1950's and you will see minamalist styles. Look in todays magazines and you will notice wider mats and wider mouldings. You need to experiment.
 
Joe,

Unless there is a compelling (or even a casual reason) to do otherwise, I usually begin a rectangular V-groove or a single French line at the “golden mean” distance of the mat width times 0.618 from the outer edge e.g. if the mat width is 3 inches then the grove will be (3 x 0.618 ~ 1-7/8”) from the outside.

To my eye, this places the V-groove slightly closer to the art and "unifies" the separate items, but not so close that it looks cramped.
 
Joe, I was being daffy. To "Hinge" the back of the frame would be to make the back a door that you can open and change the pictures around as the mood struck you. Don't do it. LEAVE IT just the way it is. I was just putting it out as a lark.

baer
 
Sorry Guys for not thanking u all for your helpful comments- I have not been near the computer much lately - new house etc!!!!
On another note - my wife has deceided to have a go at 3d decoupage (forgive the spelling if its wrong LOL!!!) and wants me to make a suitable frame for her.
Any more help would be greatly appreciated.
I have some experience in making a box frame - but any other experiences /help please?

TIA
Joe90
 
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