Help! I'm Being stalked by Thomas Kinkade!

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SteveT

SteveT

CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
Joined
Aug 29, 2004
Posts
172
Loc
Kalamazoo
I cant get away from this guy. His company is emailing me, their sending me stuff in the mail, and they have called several times. Now I have a sales person stopping by my store.

The rep was very polite, and was so excited to offer me this "great money making opportunity". When he finally got to the end of his sales pitch, he offered to let me be a dealer, I replied "no way". For some reason he didn't look all that surprised. He did ask me why, and I let him know I'm not new to this business, and know Thomas' reputation very well.

I felt kinda sorry for him, at least when I have to frame a Kinkade, it's quickly out of my store. He has to work with him every day.
Steve
 
This gallery frame shop I worked for 10? years ago had a Kinkade gallery and they had a lot of frustration with it. They made a separate room for the viewing with an electric fireplace and a dimmer switch so you can see the painting "glow."

Their biggest obstacle to profitability was the autoship program. As a dealer, they were charged for autoshipped paintings ever month or so and then had trouble moving them. I think Kinkade may be popular forever with a certain crowd, but he oversaturated his images in his own market and devalued the whole shebang.

By the way, I was forced to watch some TK sales videos and one lauded example for closing a sale when faced with price objections was "Let's run the credit card and if it goes through, it was meant to be." For reals.
 
whats wrong with tk?

:shrug:I heard the mark up is awesome, I got about 40% off when i bought 2 paintings, but i still don't think i got the best deal. ps im not a framer or dealer.
SteveT said:
I cant get away from this guy. His company is emailing me, their sending me stuff in the mail, and they have called several times. Now I have a sales person stopping by my store.

The rep was very polite, and was so excited to offer me this "great money making opportunity". When he finally got to the end of his sales pitch, he offered to let me be a dealer, I replied "no way". For some reason he didn't look all that surprised. He did ask me why, and I let him know I'm not new to this business, and know Thomas' reputation very well.

I felt kinda sorry for him, at least when I have to frame a Kinkade, it's quickly out of my store. He has to work with him every day.
Steve
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Just stick a pentagram welcome mat out there....That`ll scare em off...L.
 
Luddite said:
Just stick a pentagram welcome mat out there....That`ll scare em off...L.
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Blessed be, my friend. Blessed be.

As I said in another thread, there are few things that scare me: Kinkade and clowns. And recurring nightmares about Kinkade as a clown.

Is it me or does anyone else have this scenario: someone buys a Kinkade reproduction for a huge amount of money on a cruise or online, then wants to get it framed for under $100. Or better yet, wants to fit it in a ready-made frame they had at home or bought at Wal-Mart which requires to trim the blasted repro. Or, even better, THEY'VE ALREADY TRIMMED IT! There's a sick pleasure in telling those people they've just devalued their "investment." (I use that word loosely.)

My mother loves Kinkade. She also gets her frames at Wal-Mart.
 
Cavalier said:
Blessed be, my friend. Blessed be.

As I said in another thread, there are few things that scare me: Kinkade and clowns. And recurring nightmares about Kinkade as a clown.

Is it me or does anyone else have this scenario: someone buys a Kinkade reproduction for a huge amount of money on a cruise or online, then wants to get it framed for under $100. Or better yet, wants to fit it in a ready-made frame they had at home or bought at Wal-Mart which requires to trim the blasted repro. Or, even better, THEY'VE ALREADY TRIMMED IT! There's a sick pleasure in telling those people they've just devalued their "investment." (I use that word loosely.)

My mother loves Kinkade. She also gets her frames at Wal-Mart.
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Cavalier--I would be HAPPY to "crop" a Kinkade! Oops! Right through the middle! "Sorry, ma'am, the blade slipped."

What IS it about Kinkade that we all can't stand? Is it his "Painter of Light" bs? His sicky-sweet colors and technique? His "I'm Closer to God Than You" attitude? His SUCCESS?

Whatever it is, he is on the wane. He over-extended himself and put out WAY too many products with his images on them. Too much of a good thing...

Wendy
The Art Corner
Salem, MA
 
Cavalier said:
Blessed be, my friend. Blessed be.

As I said in another thread, there are few things that scare me: Kinkade and clowns. And recurring nightmares about Kinkade as a clown.

Is it me or does anyone else have this scenario: someone buys a Kinkade reproduction for a huge amount of money on a cruise or online, then wants to get it framed for under $100. Or better yet, wants to fit it in a ready-made frame they had at home or bought at Wal-Mart which requires to trim the blasted repro. Or, even better, THEY'VE ALREADY TRIMMED IT! There's a sick pleasure in telling those people they've just devalued their "investment." (I use that word loosely.)

My mother loves Kinkade. She also gets her frames at Wal-Mart.
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FUN THOUGHT.....There is a "carnival,and novelty" supply store here in town.They have an aisle of gifty type items,for prizes,and inexpensive...ok..cheap gifts.There are ALWAYS stupid items with TK art on them,and proudly packaged as such!!! Not knockoffs! Amazing what his marketing dept as allowed......L.(PS love my cool Pagan friends)
 
Once upon a time, TK was a cash cow for me. As much as I hated the storybook fairytale looking carp, I sold it with pride.

Now the cash cow has become a rotting corpse and the stench was too much too bare in my showroom.

All the stupid 'glowing' canvases are gone and I have just a few paper prints left.

I will make someone a racehorse deal on what is left.

In fact, I'll trade them all for a rotary attachment for my VersaLASER.
 
wendy lang said:
What IS it about Kinkade that we all can't stand? Is it his "Painter of Light" bs? His sicky-sweet colors and technique? His "I'm Closer to God Than You" attitude? His SUCCESS?
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For me, it's the difference between art and illustration, I guess. I did work at a gallery with a Kinkade gallery and I've gotten the whole training package. He worked with Norman Rockwell and he wants to be the next Norman Rockwell. Well, he can't paint people that well, and his paintings have no wit. There's no humor, or human emotion at all. Norman Rockwell was a master of PEOPLE. TKs put a number next to his signature that's the number of N's hidden in the picture. That's not Escher, that's an activity book.

I do appreciate the Christian message. There's always a path leading to a home that is warm. His audience never tires of the feeling they get imagining they are about to cross that path right into that warm house, and probably all the dear passed on loved ones who may be waiting in there. More power to them if them makes them happy. But it's a one trick pony. One trick ponies do not accumulate value unless they die very young.

It's too bad, because he's possibly a talented plein air artist.

My husband's grandmother was my seat mate on a trip through It's a Small World. Right about the point I was trying to decide if somebody had slipped me mushrooms, she grabbed my arm in a death grip and said, "This must be just what heaven is like." Later my husband told me she was obsessed with It's a Small World. She left us her collection of four or five little music boxes and they all play It's a Small World. Big TK fan.
 
Several years ago a pretty talented artist came thru my shop and we ended talking about where he had worked before. He said that he pre-panted canvases for Kinkade. I took it as he would stretch the canvas and gesso it for him to paint, and he said, "no, I panted originals for him". I guess his job was to finish about 95% of the painting and then Thomas would come around and give it his "finishing touch".

He said the job paid pretty well, but he got tired of Kinkade telling everybody he painted the whole thing, and that it took him weeks to get it just right. He said he was a real jerk to work for.
 
SteveT said:
Several years ago a pretty talented artist came thru my shop and we ended talking about where he had worked before. He said that he pre-panted canvases for Kinkade. I took it as he would stretch the canvas and gesso it for him to paint, and he said, "no, I panted originals for him". I guess his job was to finish about 95% of the painting and then Thomas would come around and give it his "finishing touch".

He said the job paid pretty well, but he got tired of Kinkade telling everybody he painted the whole thing, and that it took him weeks to get it just right. He said he was a real jerk to work for.
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Gee--just like RUEBENS, except, perhaps, for the "jerk" part.

Wendy
The Art Corner
Salem, MA
 
wendy lang said:
Gee--just like RUEBENS, except, perhaps, for the "jerk" part.

Wendy
The Art Corner
Salem, MA
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Or somebody who's name rhymes with Biluhly.......
 
shayla said:
Or somebody who's name rhymes with Biluhly.......
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The explanation of your "Bilhuly" was that since he only has one eye(really! car accident...NOT glass related)He lacks the depth perception needed to handle the glass working himself.He designs the pieces,and has his "minnions"(my term) do the hot work! L. (BTW,Warhol handed most of his projects over to his students....)
 
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Their was a couple here that owned two TK Galleries a couple of years ago.
The places were nicely done up, but very dark inside, so I guess you could better see light in the paintings from "the painter of light".
Anyway, they ended up closing the two galleries and losing their shirts on the deal.

For me, I knew something was up when I saw that 60 Minutes piece on TK a few years ago.
He got off his chartered jet in Dallas and went into one of his print factories and started signing Giclee's that had been printed, stacked up 10 paintings high, and touched up by other artists.

These "things" were then sold for thousands of dollars to rabid fans who thought they were buying an investment piece of art.
Shameful. IMO
 
I liked him just fine until he killed my father.
 
If only he hadn't been dressed as a clown at the time,
we'd have nailed him for sure.
 
I have one of his stupid paintings which is a stupid puzzle that has been sitting in my shop since October and the customer owes me a hundred bucks and I need the money and I can't get a hold of them.

Stupid ugly #######.
 
Well, perhaps some kind Mod will move this thread over to Warped - or it could just be an invitation or a teaser - "See what goes on in Warped every day!!!"

Jocularity. Jocularity.
 
MabSadie2: Painter of Dark

BLACK_SQUARE.jpg
 
this is an interesting thread..about 4 years ago we had a couple of suits stop in the gallery and try to sell us on becoming a Kincaid gallery..they were very pushy and insistant, even went so far as to tell me where to set up a section to their standards and started measuring our prime display area...it took some very emphatic language to get them to understand NO meant NO...is this something routine for them to do..anybody else had that experience??
 
MabSadie2 said:
MabSadie2: Painter of Dark

BLACK_SQUARE.jpg
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Too late! Last fall I saw an add in the back of a magazine(Smithsonian I think..)advertising the "painter of dark".Artist did paintings of homes,but as haunted houses.Actually very cool,loved the ones with the Trick or Treaters coming up to the porch,which had Jack o lanterns!! Cute. L
 
Actually, there is an artist named Tomohari Mukakami and I have been dragging around a review of his artwork from a April 1988 ARTnews magazine which showed just the artwork in Sadie's post - it was called "Untitled, 1986" and until very recently when I Googled the name, I always thought the very well-written and hilariously dry review was an April Fool's joke:

"The obsessively personal paintings of Tomoharu Murakami resemble tar poured over Astro-Turf. They are entirely black, all rectangular, and, to the unsympathetic or casual observer, they all look the same. But although these works challenge conventional ideas of painting, and even commonly-held perceptions about the nature of art itself, they deserve the effort that may be necessary to appreciate them."

Until I Googled the artist for 20 years I really thought this review was a joke.

####### is a joke, however.
 
I can honestly say that in 32 years I have never personally seen a TK in our shop. Why don't the collectors wanting to honor thier purchases come to me? I'd love to frame a TK - Think of the design possibilities and all the suede mats and liners and fillets and MG and STUFF you could use on these! A field day! We could have a design contest...
 
Ahhhh, TK.....

They have wanted them trimmed with no mat.................:(

They are so valuable..............just a single 2"mat will do..................(Can't you make that mat any smaller and how about a black metal frame?)

We had a wonderful cruise, we now have 3 priceless pieces..............What? It will cost us that much for three, we can't afford that!!!! Afterall, they were given to us at the end of the cruise.

The 3 galleries in our area are all closed...........including the one that was a log cabin, designed and built to be TK exclusive. It is a hair salon now, I think.

Ahhhhhhhh yes, TK!!!
 
Is TK going the way of the Edsel? we can only hope.
 
Kirstie's point is well-taken. No matter what we personally think of an artist's work, we should welcome opportunities to frame it. If we had to frame only items that meet our personal taste requirements, we would be in a permanent recession.
:kaffeetrinker_2: Rick
 
Hey Candy, maybe the rep will stop by your shop and offer you a "great money making opportunity" also, your not to far from us here in Kalamazoo.

We didn't have the log cabin here in town but we did have a official store. As I remember their yellow pages ad lasted longer than they did. I had heard that it was owned by a real nice married couple, that sunk their life savings in to it. It was sad when they were offering all of us framers in town their stock, and no one would touch it. They were given no training on how to run a gallery, they were told the art would sell it self, because of Toms name.
 
TK and making money

I have sold quite a few of his prints. Prints are priced at around a hundred bucks or more. I laminated many using the brass name plate which comes with the print, you do have to request the plaque. I put a wide frame, with a liner, or a double frame with the plaque tacked into the second frame or liner, no mats. The look is very similiar to the more expensive canvas, but still price reasonable at between 3-400$. I treat TK art just like any other art work that I may frame....I want a satisfied customer, regardless of their art taste......I am not prejudiced against anyone's preference for the kind of art they enjoy, I do not want anyone telling me what art I should like, dislike or sell in my shop.

Beauty is in the eye of the Beholder, corney but true......, you start excluding artist, or art work, doesn't sound good, or reasonable to me, but that's just my opinion. I hope I don't get banned from the grumble for thinking this way...lol.... Please send all Tk business my way.....Many Thanks
 
treeves said:
I have sold quite a few of his prints. Prints are priced at around a hundred bucks or more. I laminated many using the brass name plate which comes with the print, you do have to request the plaque.
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You laminated them??

Several years ago, someone brought in a Kincade to have framed. After the framer got it done, he couldn't find the cert that came with it. We looked everywhere, never did find it.

I went to the local dealer and tried to get a dupe cert. No way. Had to buy a new print for our customer. Discount? No way. Had to buy the stupid thing at retail. We framed the customer's print that was now ours (certless). It hung on the wall for a year or so until someone finally bought it. The gallery looked so much better when it went away.
 
Oh, we'll frame Kinkade, no problem. It's just that when we pick out a combination that really sings Handel's "Messiah", the customer just about dies at the price; usually they're looking for something around $100 or so. Not only that, they don't actually READ the framing information given to them and when we explain what it's all about, they get angry--usually at us--because no one told them they had to do all that to protect their "investment." We had one person spout off that it was a conspiracy to get more money out of them.

And I'm curious too -- laminating devalues these reproductions because it's not reversible.

But I digress.

I usually recommend this person whenever someone inquires about Kinkade prints: Paintings by Christa Never thee mind the layout and design of the website (I don't know who did her site, but I should talk to her about it) just look at the images. And she's humble.
 
Cavalier said:
Oh, we'll frame Kinkade, no problem. It's just that when we pick out a combination that really sings Handel's "Messiah", the customer just about dies at the price; usually they're looking for something around $100 or so.
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Ran across ads from the local Kinkade Signature store on Craigslist! So I went down.

I don't believe I saw a single piece of real wood on the wall, mostly rather shiny, mahogany-esque 2"-4" poly with 2"-3" gold-lipped, near-outmeal scooped liners. Baer did not wrap a single one of those liners, they need to sharpen the Morso. Many here would be embarrassed to claim such. Prices about $1300, $1400 for medium sized pieces, framing included. But you could pay $4995 for the 4' x 6' poly-encircled centerpiece.

Most had a about a dozen dabs of real paint on the giclees, wouldn't want to laminate that. Couple of framed pieces even had "wet paint" ribbons stretched across the frame like a police barricade, what's that about, did they dab it at the store? I was too polite to comment on the poly or paint, wish I had. But I never skewer employees when the higher ups are the real villains.

Can't fault those guys on presentation, very dark store dripping with American Heritage decor, much of it for sale. Cottage stuff mostly at the back. The prints so narrowly and dramatically spotlighted it was hard to see the frames (a good thing).
 
treeves said:
Please send all Tk business my way.....Many Thanks
Click to expand...

Now, I gave some of my observations, however, I will enjoy the framing of any TK pieces that come my way. Since I recently took Baer's class, the next one that comes my way will be recommended to have fabric wrapped mats.

Right now, I have a TK Porcelain Cardinal and a TK Porcelain Butterfly in the shop for shadowbox framing.

Steve T, the log cabin was in North Muskegon. It was quite a big deal when they built it because it was modeled after a cabin in one of his prints. This couple has since gone out of business completely, too.
 
Cavalier said:
Oh, we'll frame Kinkade, no problem. It's just that when we pick out a combination that really sings Handel's "Messiah"...
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LOL! Cavalier, Welcome to the Grumble!

Seriously though, I agree with you...bring 'em on! I'll frame just about anything.

Treeves, I don't quite get the lamination and plaque thing on the TKs.

See folks, you do need PPFA. The Grumble just can't answer every question.
 
Laminating prints

I laminate a lot of small prints using United's U4117 Canvas striatied laminated material {Bienfang}. I mount and laminate at the same time. I leave it in my Seal 500 at 220 degrees approx. for about 10 minutes. I did have some trial and error time before getting the process down. I use regular foam core on most of the small prints and they look great with a nice wide frame. I have done photos, and larger prints up to 30 x 52, probably the largest I have done... The Tk's have all came out great. You do need to get heat, timing, and pressure correct to have a great laminating job.
I sell mostly prints from Tk, they will ship you the name plate, or title plate if you request it. You have to request it, or they will not ship with your print. I have had many name plates made up by my local engraver, trophy man at very reasonable prices, 3-4$ per plate. The print is sold as a print that has been trimmed and laminated to look much like a canvas reproduction, but it is what it is, a laminated print, that is non-glare, and has UV protection. A good deal and looks great.......lol
 
Just tell the rep, "great I was looking for limited edition art to move on ebay" they really don't like that. Greg
 
There is a local high volume gallery and framing operation that has been in business for years. They became a Kincaid gallery about 8 or 9 years ago. At one time they were the #2 gallery in sales in the country. Dont know where they stand now.

I have had two customers this year bring in framed TK's bought from there and wanted them rematted. The mats I removed were paper mats, and the glass was regular. One of the pieces was showing signs of fading.

So if his own galleries dont care how they are framed, what's wrong with laminating? (even though I wouldnt do it)
 
you ought to try it you might like it,

Forget Tk's, use any old print that you've had for a while, laminate it, double frame it, or use a liner, go ahead, don't be afraid, make up your own name plate to go with the pic. I have gotten more jobs than I wanted to do wtih the TK's displayed.
Yes they are the S/N prints, many of the one I have laminated were Artist Proofs that were bought at a special sale TK has at times, others were prints given to you when you order certain prints.
Don't be afraid, if I have something not moving, you better believe, I am trying to find a way that a customer will purchase it. Laminated prints sold as a print, customer understands completely before purchasing that this a print that has been trimmed and laminated, and it may decrease the resale value of the print, if in fact any of Tk's paper prints become more valuable than the original purchase price, I am still waiting.......They look great, non-glare, UV protection, customers love em for the look, and the price.....
 
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