HELP 100 year old wedding certificate

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j Paul

j Paul

PFG, Picture Framing God
Joined
Feb 23, 2004
Posts
7,299
Loc
Toledo,Ohio
Took this order in today confident that I could get answers here with so many years of combined experience.

It is a 100 year old polish wedding certificate, in very fragile condition. Parts of the document are entirely missing and much of it along the folds are being held together by scotch tape now very yellow. The tape is on the front side not the back.

This is my idea, but looking for your insight and suggestions. I intend to first stabilize the certificate by attaching to the back side a fabric backing. (What should I use if I go this route? Linnen, cotton, muslin?)
What type of adhesive. I do have a heat press, and prospray as well.

After attaching the backing fabric for support, I told customer we would make an attempt at removing tape from front. Will not proceed if it appears to do any damage to document. I suppose unseal or similar type adhesive release and alot of patience would work here.

If both of the above work, then we intend to float mount it to a fabric wrapped mat, and include in the package a framed photo of the wedding couple.

I charged in addition to the framing package ect. a couple of hours labor for appling the backing and attempting to remove the tape. I know that it is going to probably take alot longer. Figure that this is going to be an educational experience for me, and am OK with that.

We are not attempting full restoration by any means, just would like it to not get any worse, and to hold together for another generation or so.

As always, want to do a really good job. Thinking that this will be good word of mouth advertising.

Thanks in advance guys and gals.
 
First thing that came to mind as I read this was:

<font size=5>YOU NEED A CONSERVATOR!</font>

Then I read it some more and I began to think about how you go about doing it. What I came up with was:

<font size=5>YOU NEED A CONSERVATOR!</font>

But that might be a rash knee jerk reaction. So I went and took a short nap, ate a yogurt cup, and threw back a shot of vodka. So after thinking about it a lot, I think

<font size=5>YOU NEED A CONSERVATOR!</font>

but, then that is only IMHO.
thumbsup.gif
:D
 
Hi j paul,

This is the kind of thing that paper conservators are born for.


Don't use any adhesive to mount it to another backing as this will just complicate matters if and when the owners decide to have it properly treated. Unless you're actually trained in tape removal adhesive reduction etc., it really is a job best left to those who specialize in that area. A client's piece shouldn't be used as an educational experience.

A conservator can remove the tape, reduce, if not remove, the residual tape stains, and mend the tears on the reverse with Japanese paper and wheat starch paste.

I'm sure Toledo has good paper conservators, but if you need to send you clients further afield you can check with the AIC's referal list:

http://aic.stanford.edu/public/select.html

If they don't want to have it professionally treated, just hinge it with Japanese paper and wheat starch paste hinges or, if it is too fragile for that, encapsulate it.

Good Luck!

Rebecca
 
j Paul,

Any long-time framer who claims to have never tried what you're proposing is probably lying. I certainly have and I can tell you that, if you screw it up, the word-of-mouth advertising will not be positive.

You're right, though. It WILL be an educational experience.
 
j Paul

If we can't talk you out of trying, the only thing you should do is make a Mylar envelope for the piece and gently put it in.

Use some form of UV glazing.

DO NOT TRY TO MOUNT IT TO ANYTHING

If you would like to learn and practice on this kind of stuff, use something from your family, not someone else's family.
 
Please listen and heed the warnings given for the sake of the piece as well as the family. You are not a conservator and trust me, getting the tape off is harder than you think. If you are or want to be a respected professional framer, acting as a conservator is not a direction to take unless you are qulified to do so and it sounds like you are not. Read Rebeccas post again and do what it says, please.
 
Everyone, thanks for the replies. Indeed I was looking for advice on the proper course of action. When I said that I figured this would be an educational experience, perhaps I worded it wrong. I did not mean that I was going to practice on this piece and risk the customers family heirloom. I meant that I knew that there would be more time/effort/expense in doing this than the couple of hours that I charged for. We learn (or should) from everything we do. Even if this cost me extra to have the work done correctly, I am willing to do that(within reason) to gain this customer and futher business from referrals. The next time I will know better how to proceed, and what to charge.

I thought that I had read before that you could back a fragile paper object to a fabric backing.
Wasn't sure though, that is why I asked the question. Now I know, not to attempt it.

Sure 100% conservation/restoration would be the way to go. (Customer probably is not going to go for that, and would just roll it back up in the tisssue paper and cardboard sleeve.) Short of that, what other suggestions do you all have? Should we just turn the customer away? Is there anything we can do?
Rest assured I have not touched the piece yet, and am awaiting replies.

Please don't read any negative tone into my reply. I'm just asking questions.
Thanks again.
 
Hi again j paul

Why do you think the client would not be interested in conservation? It should at least be suggested - conservators don't bite, ;) , nor do the ones I know charge for an initial consultation. You can send your client directly to them, or you can act as middleman.

Also, it would be good for your business to strike up acquaintances with with the conservators in your area. You'll come off as seeming more professional to your clients, you'll have someone to ask questions like this one to, and a nice back and forth of referrals will come out of the relationships.

If a conservator is just not in the picture, it sounds like encapsulation is a good option.

Rebecca
 
I have two very old items in my store that gets lots of attention and I did very little to them. One is a map from Pearl Harbor (my granddad was there and charted his routes in the Navy) and the other is a Polish Communion certificate. The map had lots of tape on it but the paper was in good shape. I didn't touch it. I framed it with Artsavers all the way around it with a huge mat. The certificate was really torn and ragged. I used Japanese paper and wheat starch paste to float mount it.

I tell you this not because I'm a genius. I say this because these two (monetarily worthless) documents get more attention and comments than any other items in my store. The fact that I didn't try to restore these gives them a level of interest that wouldn't be there if I had tried to fix these or hide their imperfections. This is a very reasonable point to make to your customer. Well the map actually has value because a common question is “How much is this map?”

My theory is that if something is to brittle for hinges then it doesn't belong in a frame PERIOD!

If they insist that they want it done I would first suggest company that fixes pictures digitally before I would try to fix the actual document anyway. They do a better job, the image isn't harmed at all, and they are cheaper.

Good luck and it was good hearing from you again. After you got open, you quit posting.

Carry on.
 
The others are correct -- you should not do anything to change the condition of the document.

If the customer resists conservation treatment, maybe he/she doesn't understand what's at stake. Some of the damage is ongoing. For example, the tape's adhesive will continue to migrate through the paper. Destruction will continue until it is stopped by proper treatment, or until the document is completely destroyed.

In any case, it won't stay the way it is now. If the document has any sentimental value, then conservation treatment is probably a worthwhile investment.

As an alternative, you could have the document photographed & digitally reproduced. that would allow the original to be stored until it is either repaired or destroyed, and a copy of it may be framed for display.
 
If, after you explain all this to your customer, and (you perceive that) they indeed are inclined to roll it back up and stick it in the cardboard tube, it looks to me that the (next) best thing for the document is to put it in a mylar envelope. It certainly appears that it would be better for it to be in a mylar envelope (as Jerry Ervin suggested) and in a frame with cc glass, than rolled in tissue paper and in a cardboard tube.

Yes, "the best" is all ways the best, but you all know, there are still people who don't give a rip and only look at the price (not the true "cost" to the piece.)

Betty
 
In addition to Betty's encapsulation idea, you can make them a nice little storage folder out of Artcare. If it is too 3-D, one could always make a storage sink mount.

There is some evidence that encapsulating something acidic will cause it to "stew in its own juices" i.e. allow acidic build-up. This may be getting into "how angles can dance on the head on a pin territory" , but it is another option. You can straddle both camps by putting it on Artcare facing it with Mylar, in a modified encapsulation.

Rebecca
 
I like the mylar L-Velopes from United because they're easier than making my own. If you back the encapsulated document with a piece of matboard similar in color to the background of the piece, it will help to camouflage the missing areas.

Kit
 
Kit -- Clear film envelopes are OK for some jobs, but they do not have the "pinching action" that helps hold the document in place, nor do they lay as flat as properly-assembled encapsulation.
 
I think the customer picks up on our own perceptions and attitudes. If we believe, as I think many here do, that conservation services are a luxery out-of-reach to most, our presentation probably sounds like this: "We could always send it to a conservator, if you have money to burn and this is a matter of life-and-death."

We utter these words while slowly shaking our heads and grimacing, which sends a not-so-subliminal message, "You'd have to be insane to even consider this."

It's worth remembering that this is exactly the attitude that most consumers have toward custom framers and we all think it's terribly unfair.

I don't see this changing much until framers begin to develop a more personal working relationship with conservators. The participation of conservators, like Rebecca, on The Grumble is a big step, and one which can only benefit all of us.

As an industry, our biggest weakness is thinking we can do everything and anything ourselves.
 
If they won't go for a conservator's treatment, I like Jim's idea of digital reproduction. The missing areas could be digitally filled in. If the image is printed on matte paper it would look more "original" than on the glossier photo-type papers.
If framing the original, I would combine Kit's and Rebecca's ideas and surface-encapsulate it onto a piece of Artcare board the color of the paper. This would camouflage the missing areas, while helping prevent the "stewing-in-its-own-juices" effect. (Nice imagery, Rebecca!) Obviously, UV glazing will help slow the deterioration process.
Good luck.
:cool: Rick
 
We used to have a name for "surface encapsulation." We peobably still do, but I can't remember what it is.

Can anybody help me out here?
 
Thanks for all the imput from everyone. I had a private message conversation with Rebecca, and I am going to call 2 conservators on Monday. Two because that is all we have listed in our phone directory. I think I will also call the Toledo Art Museum and see if they have any recommendations for people who might not be listed in the phone book and who specilize in paper borne works. I then will present info to customer and see how she wants to proceed.
 
We used to have a name for "surface encapsulation." We peobably still do, but I can't remember what it is.

Can anybody help me out here?
Click to expand...
Clear film overlay? I think that's the term Jim Miller uses. Much like encapsulation, but using a cotton or alphacellulose board on back instead of a second piece of Mylar/Melinex/clear film.
 
others have said it and i agree, get a conservator to do it. i work with a paper conservator, and because i run a business we get charged a wholesale price, which gives us room in either making a profit (usually) or breaking even (worst case scenario). deacidifying it, backing it with rice paper and removing tape and any possible stains from my conservator may cost as much as you charged for the extra labor and such and you won't waste your time trying to figure this out. you will lose money on the labor by trying to figure it out and then you'll probably have to get a conservator anyway. save yourself the aggravation and let the professionals handle it.
 
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