Hello I have a big problem

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spininni

Grumbler in Training
Joined
Feb 20, 2008
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10
Hello TPFG, I'm a newb and I hope I can be of help to someone someday.

In the meantime, I'm nervous about some damage I've done to a customer's artwork. I hope there's someone here who can suggest a fix.

The artwork is 27" x 57" approximately. It's a very traditional asian painting on paper somewhat similar in thickness to a thin business card stock. Applied to the edge of the painting like a mat is a linen about 3" on all sides.

The customer brought it in rolled tight. I explained to the customer that I was going to attempt to flatten the whip out of it before framing.

My flattening solution was very stupid in retrospect. It was temporary, and I forgot it was there. That was 2 weeks ago. Since then, the whippy ends flexed into itself on each end. The result? Three folds on the left side, one fold on the right side.

Should I attempt to fold itself back in an attempt to make the crease invisible? This could backfire.

Another approach, I could take a curved edge and try to burnish the creases.

Or drymount it, with the customer's approval?

I feel terrible about this. I do feel that the creases don't have to be permanent, but I don't want to damage the artwork any more than I already have. There was not a more than a few pounds pressure on the artwork during the two weeks, so the creases are incredibly light, considering.

Please share your experiences and suggestions, I would be very very grateful.

Thanks, spin.
 
What was your method? May help to know.
Sounds like it could be mounted permanently but it helps to know if its an antique, original painting or the usual paneled painting bought by thousands of tourists every year.
Has the customer been notified?
 
what exactly did you do with the print to try and flatten it out? Lay it between something flat? Backroll it (rolling it against the current curl)? Do you have any pictures of the creases?

How is it going to be framed? If it wasn't going to be mounted in the first place, then it was likely going to be wavy/rippley after framing anyway. I wouldn't do any burnishing on the fabric as you may get shine marks and the damage could be worse. If there is a an actual wrinkle in the fabric when you flatten it out, then I'm not sure what you could since the fibers of the material woul already be stretched. Perhaps matting over that fabric with a fabric mat would be a compromise but you'll have to approve that just like you would a dry mount.
 
Spin, welcome to the club. Are you the shop owner? Do you know a paper conservator?

The goal now is to not try to save your butt, it's more to save the artwork and the customer. Myself, as the owner of the shop, I would have a paper conservator look at it before doing anything else. After getting my options (ducks in a row) I would call my customer and explain what had happened and the possible solutions to solve the problem. I would then ask the customer how they want to proceed. At this point, forget about making any money on this project until you have contacted the customer.

Whatever you do, do not try and be slick about it, that approach will just about always backfire on you and it could end up in a courtroom. Be as honest and sincere as you can be. Most customers will respond positively to honesty.

You are not alone, stuff like this happens to just about all framers sometime in their career. We do everything we can to prevent these disasters, just does not always work.

John
 
I don't know what was done to it, but I'm guessing it involved humidity. I think the poster is describing an ink brush painting mounted with a paper-backed silk surround (the surround is kind of like a window mat but the front edges of the art are pasted to reverse side of the window).

If humidity was involved in the attempt to flatten it, the silk surround would expand differently than paper support of the art, and any weight put on it could press creases into both the art and the surround.

If this is what happened, and the creases are not sharp, a paper conservator may be able to flatten it. If the situation is quite severe, I know a Chinese art conservator whose charges are IMO very reasonable.

If you could post a photo, that would help.

Rebecca
 
I've attached some photos here that should give a better idea of what I was talking about. The print is wide and narrow, almost five full feet wide and less than two wide. This made flattening and safe storage a challenge in our small shop, and led to this pure accident.

2280259129_f2571bfc4a.jpg


Some answers to questions: The artwork was flattened under two oversized corrugated plastic sheets. There were some prints between the two sheets, and the artwork in question was underneath.

Yes, I'm the owner of the shop. I agree that honesty with the customer is the right course to take here, and I'm prepared to be embarassed. I take the responsibility of safekeeping customers' artwork very seriously. This was a dumb lapse and I appreciate very much the comments I'm reading here...

2280259135_841a73d67d_o.jpg
 
Hi
It's a traditional asian watercolor with a silk brocade border, my spelling may be off, but oh well. Two things; One you have to be honest with your client and tell them what happened, do it tomorrow, you will feel much better afterwords. Do not attempt any fixes unless you know them to work. I personally would not touch a watercolor on rice paper and would only leave to a professional asian paper conservator and they should specifacally do asian papers.

Two, it can be fixed and as stated above an asain paper conservator can fix it, the silk border is a traditional method of display and can be replaced.

A friend of mine married an Tiawanese woman, her uncle an artist sent over a watercolor, but he sent it folded up in a regular size envelope. I took it to our local art museum at the University of Michigan where there is an asian paper conservator, not only did she flatten all the multiple fold out she added a silk brocade border. You could never tell the piece was ever folded, it was much worse than your photos. You can send me an email and I will give you her number and contact info.

You will have to be very open and honest with your client if you want their understanding. I don't typically recommend acting as a third party between a client and a conservator because of the general lack of communication that will ensue, so make sure you cover all your bases and be honest with all parties. Acting responsibly is more enduring than worring about be embrassed. We all make mistakes, I just try to not make the same one twice.
 
This thread illustrates how difficult Asian art on paper can be to work with. The creases in the photos, called "tents" can occur readily and they require the attention of a conservator who has familiarity with the complex structure of these mounted objects. It is important for framers to know that these items are quite fragile and can misbehave if they handled too casually or moistened.


Hugh
 
Before I contact the customers, I want to offer them a clear assessment of the damage and the steps I can take to correct it. I suppose the next step is locating a well-regarded conservator in my area, which is southern Ontario, Canada. Does anyone have any recommendations? I'd rather not ship this item elsewhere for repair, though I thank responders to this thread who have offered suggestions and other assistance.
 
Southern Ontario? If your close to Winsor then your just an hour away from Ann Arbor MI and the University Of Michigan, where we have an excellent asian paper conservator. I also have clients that have contacts at the National Gallery in Ottawa, they have an excellent conservation and print department. You can contact a very knowlegable person in thier print dept named Rosemary Tovel, I was told she would be able to point you in the right direction. Good Luck, you can message me by clicking on my name to the left of this posting if needed.
 
My heart goes out to you.

Not sure what part of Ontario you are from, I would suggest contacting the Canadian Conservation Institute in Ottawa; they may list conservators in your area. Failing that, contacting the ROM or AGO in Toronto may also help.

Good luck!
 
There is the Canadian Association of Professional Conservators, who can help you find one in your area. http://capc-acrp.ca/what_is_capc.asp see "find a conservator" at right.

Are you sure the creases weren't there before you unrolled it and put it under pressure? I ask because if there weren't any moisture content changes (e.g. humidification or big humidity changes in your work area), they could have been caused by previous conditions/handling etc. and occurred before you got it. It is possible that you didn't notice them in the excitement of unrolling and flattening. Lighting is also important - if there is no "raking light" component in your work area they could easily have been missed. Then again, it is so large, it could have happened accidently during handling at almost any time....

Rebecca
 
Hello again everyone else who has helped me...

Through the link Rebecca provided to the Canadian Association of Professional Conservators, I'm in contact with a conservator in my area. Actually, there are a few, so that's great. I've also left a short VM with the customer, and will tell her what has happened and the steps we've taken to rectify the problem. My goal is to keep this customer, even if I lose a few bucks on this deal.

Thanks everyone for your generosity. Since opening this business a few years ago, it can be easy to feel isolated, especially in the odd crisis situation. This community is a great antidote to isolation in my current situation, I can't overstate it. I've learned a lot from all your comments. You're the best. I'll update when this works itself out.
 
Good luck let us know if you need any more American style help:)
 

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I get the "DCs" every time I see one of those. My first week in this shop, a LOL came in with one of these. After taking every bamboo sample off my wall, she went with a half-round black mica frame, spacers, and although I protested long and hard (and made her sign off on it) drymount. Oy vey. I won't go into what happened to it, nor how many redos I did on it, but suffice it to say that if and when one comes in, we frame it with no hinging, no mounting, just 8-ply backing and spacers.
 
spininni said:
Hello again everyone else who has helped me...

My goal is to keep this customer, even if I lose a few bucks on this deal.

Thanks everyone for your generosity. Since opening this business a few years ago, it can be easy to feel isolated, especially in the odd crisis situation. This community is a great antidote to isolation in my current situation, I can't overstate it. I've learned a lot from all your comments. You're the best. I'll update when this works itself out.
Click to expand...

Many framers work by themselves and The Grumble is probably the best antidote we have. It's a safe place for just about everyone except total as s 's. It is better than an association because we can talk about anything we want, whenever we want. We have been known to come to each others aid that went well beyond words on many occasions.

I honestly can not think of a better group of people than the Grumblers. It's just like a family, we know each others faults and good points. The main thing, we know for sure in our day to day experiences, that we are not alone.

John
 
epilogue

I've been meaning to followup with everyone regarding the issue which prompted this thread.

After contacting a number of professional conservators, I was directed to a specialist with 18 years experience in the 1000 year old chinese tradition of wet mounting. He was quite certain that the problem could be rectified, and the artwork actually enhanced, would age better as well, by wet mounting. He also knew all about the artwork, explaining what part of China it came from, why it was of a low dollar value...

After explaining the approach (soaking the back of the artwork, applying 2 sheets of rice paper using paste, allowing to dry for 48 hours) I called the customer, who agreed to go forward after discussing it with the specialist.

As you can imagine, this was a kind of bungee jump for me. My obvious concern was that saturating the artwork, I'd risk running the colours and God knows what else. Anyway, he said no problem and we were off. Within an hour, the piece was drying in the back of my shop. I paid $125. After drying, all traces of the damage was gone. The artwork was flat as a pancake. Colours and detail were as good as the day it came in the shop.

By the middle of the following week, we had the item framed as specified. I wasn't in the shop when the customer came in, but I told her on the phone that it turned out exceptionally well. I reduced her final cost by 25%, and also gave her a $100 gift certificate, explaining that I wanted to keep her business. My brother thought I was a twit for giving up so much, but I believe it will come back, and then some.

They were very pleased with the result, and I hope to see them walk in the door with more artwork in one hand and the gift certificate in the other soon.

I considered carefully all of your suggestions, and you might even recognize your own contributions in how things played out. I could not have resolved this without the thoughtfulness of the people on this board, thank you all.
 
Glad you had a good outcome - and I think you handled the situation perfectly!

Would you please post the name/address of your miracle worker conservator?
 
It just goes to show that we are all human, mistakes DO happen and what we can learn from each other to 1) help prevent them in the future or 2) how best to handle them IF they do happen, is instrumental to our business.

Thank you for sharing your experience - you learned from it and so did we!
 
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