Have you heard of us?

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Kelly @ Nickell

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I haven't been on this site long. But from what I have seen, it seems like not many of you know of Nickell Moulding. I would love to hear from those of you that do know of us. And if you do know of us but don't purchase your mouldings from us, good or bad I would like to hear why that is as well. I am always looking for ways to improve our House Stock program.

If you haven't heard of us and would like more information, please let me know that as well. I'd be more than happy to send it to you. We have a sample kit available as well that I can send out.

Kelly Euans
House Stock
Customer Service / Inside Sales
Ph. 574-264-3129 ext. 304
800-838-2151
Fax 800-226-6314
kelly@nickellmoulding.com
nickellmoulding.com
 
I'll go first. :)

I had not heard of you before you started posting on the Grumble. I do check the links that you post to your website each time you say something new is there.

I have not bought from you before. Why not? A combination of reasons, none of them 'bad' or anything. The short version: limited room on the display wall, pricing, selection of available mouldings that my market will like, ease of obtaining the moulding, and having a "local" sales rep.

If you want a longer version of my reasons:
- I use about 16 different moulding suppliers right now. I just added a new one this month because they have a dozen or so frames that I think I can sell (and sold 2 this week). So I cherry pick what I like best from my vendors. But sales of ordered chops make up less than 5% of my total framing orders.
- Mostly I sell 115 of so mouldings that I have in stock. I carry mouldings from about 9 different vendors, and I buy by the "box". I say "box" with the understanding that I get box price from several vendors when I buy in quantities as low as 50ft. But I only order box moulding when I can order at least 3-4 boxes of moulding from that company at a single time if they are sending it to me on a big rig. I do this to spread out the freight costs across more footage.
- I do have 5 companies that will deliver to me themselves (or through a distributor), saving me the cost of frieght, so I am able to purchase box moulding more easily and more often from them.
- Up to now I have not found any of your mouldings to be 'must haves' for my market. I can't judge on quality, of course. I'm only looking at the profiles, colors and costs. If I bring in new moulding samples, I must remove others that I offer currently. Space is limited. Every company that I deal with offers hundreds or thousands of mouldings, just like your company does, and I feel that, so far, I am getting a good enough selection from them. For me to add a new company, there has to be some "reason" to do so. Maybe a set of corner samples that I think will just sell like crazy in my market. Maybe some rather ordinary corner sample profiles that are good sellers at a great price. Maybe the mouldings will be available with next day shipping, or free shipping.
- Purchasing always reflects current business conditions. I actually looked at your site recently (from your most recent post in the commercial section), and I have actually been considering several selections that I saw. But this is my slowest time of the year, and I'm not buying box moulding from anyone right now unless I'm refilling existing stock. When I both sell down some of my existing stock, and I have the money to consider adding new mouldings, I will probably look again at your site.
- But often this comes down to having a salesman actually in my shop. I am much more likely to buy a few boxes of moulding from someone who has come to see me than I am to search through various websites looking for mouldings to buy.

Of course that begs the question, why did I just add another company in the last month? I had a very specific request from a customer. Using the resources of the folks here on The Grumble, I found one single vendor with a moulding that fit my customer's stated needs. It was a company up in Montana, and they were quite surprised to find someone from Mississippi calling them to setup an account. But that's what I did. I brought in a dozen corner samples at the same time from them, and I've already made a sale from these.

Anyway, there's nothing unusual or really different here about my business practices, but you asked, so I thought that I would share.

John
 
First let me say that I did not post this message to drum up sales. Simply to understand the market better and get constructive feedback.


I appreciate your honesty John. And it would be nice if we had a salesmen for your area. I wish I could travel and meet with customers myself. Although if you send me your information, I will let Mr. Nickell know since he does travel a lot visiting customers. That way if he is in your area he may be able to stop by.

And to address the stick vs. box sales (others have mentioned it too), through the House Stock department we do only sell by the box. But our Factory Outlet Store (which is attached to our plant here) does sell the same profiles by the stick. And we sell our profiles to many wholesalers and distributors across the country. So you can always contact one of them as well to see if they have the profile you are looking for in stock.
 
Do you have a Canadian distributor?
 
tedh said:
Do you have a Canadian distributor?
Click to expand...

Only one I was able to find right off was Triple Touch Moulding in Concord, ONT. But I'm not sure if they carry any of our House Stock items. But if you are looking for stick mouldings, our Factory Outlet ships to Canada all the time. We are located on the Michigan and Indiana border, so we aren't far from Canada.
 
Nickell Moulding Factory Outlet supplies discounted, closeout, scratch and dent, and wholesale factory-direct architectural wood mouldings (moldings), trim, solid wood boards, picture frames and more in red oak, pine, poplar and MDF (Bisonwood) to builders, contractors, do-it-yourselfers and homeowners. The store is located in the Michiana area servicing northern Indiana, southern Michigan, eastern Illinois and western Ohio. Nickell Moulding Factory Outlet is convenient to Gary, Valpraiso, Michigan City, LaPorte, Plymouth, Rochester, Indianapolis, South Bend, Mishawaka, Elkhart, Goshen, Angola and Fort Wayne in Indiana. From Michigan, it is a short drive from Niles, New Buffalo, Kalamazoo, Battle Creek, Coldwater and Sturgis, not to mention Chicago, IL and Toledo, OH.

Can you clarify the parts in red?
 
pwalters said:
Nickell Moulding Factory Outlet supplies discounted, closeout, scratch and dent, and wholesale factory-direct architectural wood mouldings (moldings), trim, solid wood boards, picture frames and more in red oak, pine, poplar and MDF (Bisonwood) to builders, contractors, do-it-yourselfers and homeowners. The store is located in the Michiana area servicing northern Indiana, southern Michigan, eastern Illinois and western Ohio. Nickell Moulding Factory Outlet is convenient to Gary, Valpraiso, Michigan City, LaPorte, Plymouth, Rochester, Indianapolis, South Bend, Mishawaka, Elkhart, Goshen, Angola and Fort Wayne in Indiana. From Michigan, it is a short drive from Niles, New Buffalo, Kalamazoo, Battle Creek, Coldwater and Sturgis, not to mention Chicago, IL and Toledo, OH.

Can you clarify the parts in red?
Click to expand...

Wholesale Factory Direct = Means the items literally come direct from the factory, since the store is actually connected to it.

do-it-yourselfers and homeowners = I'm not sure how much more clarification this would need. People who need a piece of crown moulding or people who make their own frames for their own artwork.

We not only make picture frame moulding. We also supply the construction and RV industry as well.
 
Kelly @ Nickell said:
Only one I was able to find right off was Triple Touch Moulding in Concord, ONT. But I'm not sure if they carry any of our House Stock items. But if you are looking for stick mouldings, our Factory Outlet ships to Canada all the time. We are located on the Michigan and Indiana border, so we aren't far from Canada.
Click to expand...

I've been dealing with Triple Touch since 1994. I'll give them a call. Thanks.
 
Kelly @ Nickell said:
Wholesale Factory Direct = Means the items literally come direct from the factory, since the store is actually connected to it.

do-it-yourselfers and homeowners = I'm not sure how much more clarification this would need. People who need a piece of crown moulding or people who make their own frames for their own artwork.

We not only make picture frame moulding. We also supply the construction and RV industry as well.
Click to expand...

So can a homeowner come into the store (or perhaps order online) and buy the same moulding you would be selling wholesale?
 
Heard of you. Have your stuff. More people should get your stuff. It's real wood moulding nicely finished just like the old days. Your prices in general and particularly the prices on close-outs are hard to beat.
 
pwalters said:
So can a homeowner come into the store (or perhaps order online) and buy the same moulding you would be selling wholesale?
Click to expand...

I don't want to start an argument or bash this particular supplier but just asking Kelly from Nickle Moulding to take this question/thought to her bosses.

  • You are attempting to be in the wholesale business and courting retail frame operations.
  • You sell single sticks of moulding at wholesale price but understandably that price is less than box - no problem everybody follows that model.
  • You sell single stick mouldings at wholesale price to homeowners / contractors and others outside the business.
  • THIS IS WHERE MOST RETAIL STORES - YOUR BULK WHOLESALE BUYERS WOULD HAVE A PROBLEM.
    • If you are going to sell these small quantity to homeowners why don't you do so at a retail price?
    • If you sold to those customers at retail and never divulged the wholesale price to the general public do you think that more wholesale customers might get behind you?
    • Are the sales of a stick or two at a time to these homeowners and others not in the framing business significant enough to put off true wholesale purchasers?


Just a thought. I know that if I were a retail framer I would not buy from you if I were within an area that was close enough for my customers to drive over and pickup a stick at the same price I could buy it for.
 
Yes I have and...

not a fan of listing prices on the web or selling to my potential customers.

good luck with your business plan
 
I had never heard of you until I saw your posts on the Grumble. I did check out your website and my concerns would be the same as the others. I don't buy from companies who compete with me, I don't want my customers to go on your website and see the prices listed so that they think I am ripping them off, and most of the companies I deal with ship the same day I order. Your prices do seem pretty good and if not for these other issues I would probably be interested in buying from you. If you search around on the forum you will find other threads about how much a lot of framers dislike wholesalers who sell directly to the public.

Ed
 
Yes, I have heard of you. But I'm not really planning on adding any new moulding suppliers, but if I see you at the WCAF, I might change my mind.

I, like many others, already have my preferred moulding suppliers, and I try to limit the number of moulding suppliers I have so I can get better pricing, etc. When I first started I had 2 moulding suppliers, both local.

I then went to the WCAF and found a few others I liked. So my plan was to just stay with these suppliers.

However I also have a couple of other framers whose work I really respect, and through them I added a few additional suppliers {including the one in Montana that has wonderful barnwood - thanks MIK}

Then a few years ago, I picked up a few more suppliers at the WCAF - again for some of their particularly unique mouldings.

What I look for in a moulding supplier, first is reasonable pricing for good quality products that are unique or fill a particular segment, and then service. They don't have to have a rep; but they need to be responsive on the phone, and follow through. For example, the Montana supplier doesn't have a sales rep in my area, and are never at the WCAF, but they have an exceptional product for a very unique market segment, at a very good price. And they ship when they say, and they always say thank you. A great supplier. And some of my other suppliers I only see at the WCAF, but they remember me and do what they say.

good luck.
 
j Paul said:
  • You are attempting to be in the wholesale business and courting retail frame operations.
  • You sell single sticks of moulding at wholesale price but understandably that price is less than box - no problem everybody follows that model.
  • You sell single stick mouldings at wholesale price to homeowners / contractors and others outside the business.
  • THIS IS WHERE MOST RETAIL STORES - YOUR BULK WHOLESALE BUYERS WOULD HAVE A PROBLEM.
    • If you are going to sell these small quantity to homeowners why don't you do so at a retail price?
    • If you sold to those customers at retail and never divulged the wholesale price to the general public do you think that more wholesale customers might get behind you?
    • Are the sales of a stick or two at a time to these homeowners and others not in the framing business significant enough to put off true wholesale purchasers?


Just a thought. I know that if I were a retail framer I would not buy from you if I were within an area that was close enough for my customers to drive over and pickup a stick at the same price I could buy it for.
Click to expand...

Ok let us back up here a moment. When I clarified the words pwalters originally asked about I did so in a broad spectrum since our Outlet Store does not just sell picture frame moulding. We manufacturer many types of mouldings (ie: pfm's, casing, crown mouldings, etc...). We are the manufacturer of mouldings, not the wholesaler or distributor. The paragraph pwalters copied and pasted into his comment was from the Outlet Store's website, not the main Nickell Moulding website.

In our Outlet Store, when you buy picture frame mouldings by the stick, you would be paying retail price. Unless it was a discontinued or close out item.

I am not trying to "court" anyone. I stated that earlier in this thread that I was just looking for feedback. And we are not attempting to be in the wholesale business as far as pfm's go. We do want to make our House Stock items available to anyone that wishes to purchase them. But obviously, the every day person is not going to want to buy a box of moulding with 200' or so in it to build just one frame. But they have that option. When they just want a stick or two, we either send them to our store or help them find one of our distributors.

One more thing to clarify is that the Outlet Store and my department (House Stock) are completely different. They have their own pricing of items, and I have mine. My customers tend to be distrubutors, wholesalers and framers who buy in bulk. I'm sure we even sell to many of the suppliers most of you purchase your mouldings from.

Ok I'm not sure I can explain it much more than I have. I'm dissappointed in the reaction my original question has received.
 
bruce papier said:
Heard of you. Have your stuff. More people should get your stuff. It's real wood moulding nicely finished just like the old days. Your prices in general and particularly the prices on close-outs are hard to beat.
Click to expand...

And we enjoy having you and Paul as customers!
 
Yes, I've heard of you and have in the past used some of your moulding - nice stuff. My problem is that I have a small shop and generally cannot use a full box of moulding. If I could purchase less than a box I would definitely purchase from you, but at this point, unless I find someone else to purchase with me, I will not be able to purchase direct. You have really nice moulding though...
 
Kelly @ Nickell said:
And if you do know of us but don't purchase your mouldings from us, good or bad I would like to hear why that is as well. I am always looking for ways to improve our House Stock program.

Kelly Euans
House Stock
Customer Service / Inside Sales
Ph. 574-264-3129 ext. 304
800-838-2151
Fax 800-226-6314
kelly@nickellmoulding.com
nickellmoulding.com
Click to expand...

Kelly you said you were dissapointed in the reaction to your original question.

I don't think you have been attacked or your company berated. You just received some of the concerns / negatives as to why some framers might not choose to purchase from Nickle.

The concern was that according to the wording that pwalters pasted from your companies website (even if it is the outlet side) that you sell wholesale to do-it-yourselfers. Now in your response to my post you say that isn't so, that the prices for buying one stick at a time are retail. If nothing else it is very confusing because the black & white wording on the post was "Wholesale"

The other concern that some framer have (while others do not) is that on the House Stock Box only site that you are listing what appear to be wholesale prices. Many have a problem with our retail customers being able so easily to see our wholesale prices. Suggestion is to make those only aval. to genuine wholesale customers that have registered and received an account with your company.

Take it or not but that is some of the good and bad response that you asked for.
 
Joe B said:
Yes, I've heard of you and have in the past used some of your moulding - nice stuff. My problem is that I have a small shop and generally cannot use a full box of moulding. If I could purchase less than a box I would definitely purchase from you, but at this point, unless I find someone else to purchase with me, I will not be able to purchase direct. You have really nice moulding though...
Click to expand...

Jorh Frame & Moulding is a bit closer to you and they sell our mouldings if you would like to contact them. They are wonderful people and very helpful. www.jorhframe.com
 
j Paul said:
The concern was that according to the wording that pwalters pasted from your companies website (even if it is the outlet side) that you sell wholesale to do-it-yourselfers. Now in your response to my post you say that isn't so, that the prices for buying one stick at a time are retail. If nothing else it is very confusing because the black & white wording on the post was "Wholesale"
Click to expand...

the "black & white" wording is in very small print at the bottom of the site and was on there before they even began to sell our House Stock items by the stick.

The prices on our website is something I intend to discuss with the owner and management.
 
Kelly @ Nickell said:
In our Outlet Store, when you buy picture frame mouldings by the stick, you would be paying retail price. Unless it was a discontinued or close out item.

I am not trying to "court" anyone. I stated that earlier in this thread that I was just looking for feedback. And we are not attempting to be in the wholesale business as far as pfm's go. We do want to make our House Stock items available to anyone that wishes to purchase them. But obviously, the every day person is not going to want to buy a box of moulding with 200' or so in it to build just one frame. But they have that option. When they just want a stick or two, we either send them to our store or help them find one of our distributors.
Click to expand...

Kelly, I was just looking for clarification. Thank you for providing it. I am one that wouldn't buy from someone who does make their product available to the general public but I am glad that at least you state they would be paying retail prices. I would bet that your company has a different definition of what a "retail" price is than most of the framers on this board though, but that's an assumption on my part.

I find the second paragraph that I quoted to be a bit confusing. Photographers, hobbyists, home framers (not that there is anything wrong with home framers.....that's not the topic here) and many other potential customers of retailers could have use of that much of a profile. Either way, I thought your company was a moulding wholesaler. Are you not? Please forgive me my confusion. It was a long weekend.
 
Do you manufacture your own mouldings? or do you import directly. Do you have distributor in the UK?
 
I'm afraid I don't quite understand what your company is. This may be my fault because I'm not quite smart enough to understand what you are explaining and I don't have the time to do the research. I guess you are saying that you have two different businesses? Maybe my suggestion would be to explain what each part of your company does along with links to the corresponding websites. It may just be that I'm slow and nobody else needs the extra explaination and if that's the case feel free to ignore me.

I think that a mistake that a lot of businesses make is to put the responsibility for understanding the product or service or policy on the customer. Your potential customers have no need or inclination to try to understand. There are plenty of suppliers out there so if I don't get what your trying to do I can continue to buy from other supplier and never think about it again.

I hope that you know that I'm not trying to be negative. I hope this is helpful to your research.
 
FramerCat said:
I'm afraid I don't quite understand what your company is. This may be my fault because I'm not quite smart enough to understand what you are explaining and I don't have the time to do the research. I guess you are saying that you have two different businesses? Maybe my suggestion would be to explain what each part of your company does along with links to the corresponding websites. It may just be that I'm slow and nobody else needs the extra explaination and if that's the case feel free to ignore me.

I think that a mistake that a lot of businesses make is to put the responsibility for understanding the product or service or policy on the customer. Your potential customers have no need or inclination to try to understand. There are plenty of suppliers out there so if I don't get what your trying to do I can continue to buy from other supplier and never think about it again.

I hope that you know that I'm not trying to be negative. I hope this is helpful to your research.
Click to expand...


Nickell Moulding Company (manufacturer) - www.nickellmoulding.com

Factory Outlet Store - www.nickellmouldingoutlet.com
 
Nickell Moulding Factory Outlet supplies discounted, closeout, scratch and dent, and wholesale factory-direct architectural wood mouldings (moldings), trim, solid wood boards, picture frames and more in red oak, pine, poplar and MDF (Bisonwood) to builders, contractors, do-it-yourselfers and homeowners. The store is located in the Michiana area servicing northern Indiana, southern Michigan, eastern Illinois and western Ohio. Nickell Moulding Factory Outlet is convenient to Gary, Valpraiso, Michigan City, LaPorte, Plymouth, Rochester, Indianapolis, South Bend, Mishawaka, Elkhart, Goshen, Angola and Fort Wayne in Indiana. From Michigan, it is a short drive from Niles, New Buffalo, Kalamazoo, Battle Creek, Coldwater and Sturgis, not to mention Chicago, IL and Toledo, OH.

So the price is the same to the do-it yourselfers and retailers?

Do you offer joined frames in your "Factory Direct Outlet Shop"?

Do you have an in-house picture framer as well?
 
This may help those who are wondering about Nickell. I've known of them for a few decades and they would closely match TI Industries moulding business. Box sales from main branch only and they are an actual manufacturer. Architectural mouldings are a large part of their business since making moulding is what they do. Custom runs are available with certain minimums.

A large number of frame shops would not know they made the moulding that independent suppliers sold under private label type deal. Nice looking but I have not used enough quantity to say whether I would be a regular user or not. The prices I've seen have been reasonable I just haven't taken the leap. I have a whole bunch of reps in my store showing me stuff I can't pass up that I never have room to try them.

I don't know anything of their outlet but the old 84 Lumber, Home Depot and Lowe's had length moulding with the crown moulding. I hope chops and other framing type work is never done at wholesale moulding prices. I buy from a supplier who was a retailer first and kept the retail business but at retail prices. Documounts sure turned some framers sour on the big guys.

I bet a huge number of framers have used Nickell's moulding over decades without having any idea who made it. I hope the public display of wholesale prices goes away really soon.
 
Thank you so much for your post Jeff. You were able to say everything I had been trying to but just couldn't put it into words. So once again thank you!

As for our Outlet store, I think too many people grasped onto the word "wholesale" that they couldn't hear anything else. As far as picture framing goes, what is sold in the store is at retail prices. It used to be that they only sold our discontinued or close out items. But to give our customers who did not have the capabilities to purchase box quantities of moulding the option of purchasing it by the stick, the store began to carry our stock items at retail price.


If you still need further clarification, please email me at kelly@nickellmoulding.com. I'd be happy to give you as much informatin as possible.
 
Kelly @ Nickell said:
Jorh Frame & Moulding is a bit closer to you and they sell our mouldings if you would like to contact them. They are wonderful people and very helpful. www.jorhframe.com
Click to expand...

Thanks Kelly - I've been using Jorh Frame & Moulding for a couple of years now and you are right, they are wonderful people and very helpful. I have never had a problem with them and their customer service is one of the best in the industry. I didn't know they carried your moulding, I will look into it more.
 
Joe B said:
Thanks Kelly - I've been using Jorh Frame & Moulding for a couple of years now and you are right, they are wonderful people and very helpful. I have never had a problem with them and their customer service is one of the best in the industry. I didn't know they carried your moulding, I will look into it more.
Click to expand...

Yes Trish is wonderful and very helpful. I've been known to call her when I have questions. lol
 
I think the real issue here is not the price that Nickell is selling their moulding in the outlet store for. But the fact that they are selling moulding to the retail public period. They are selling it in a manner that the public assumes its cheaper by calling it an outlet. Perception that they are selling the product cheaper than they can get from a professional framer is implied heavily in there business marketing plan.

If indeed they need to get rid of disc or imperfect mouldings there are many framers that love buying such moulding at a discounted price. No need for a retail operation to handle that. In 40 years of business I have always avoided doing business with a vendor that was competeing against me.
 
Unfair competition to sell at retail prices???? Nice welcome to a manufacturing business introducing themselves here on The Grumble.
 
wcox said:
If indeed they need to get rid of disc or imperfect mouldings there are many framers that love buying such moulding at a discounted price. No need for a retail operation to handle that. In 40 years of business I have always avoided doing business with a vendor that was competeing against me.
Click to expand...

really


i wouldnt have any suppliers if i worried about every supplier that sold to my target market
 
Thank you Pat and stcstc for you comments. At this time I think it's best if I just stop commenting because too many people seem to be stuck on our Outlet Store (which by the way is the smallest faction of our company) and not on our company as a whole.
 
One aspect no one mentioned is that we're all in this together: a declining number of independent framers, crushing attacks from big boxes, few new entrants into the business, and when a supplier steps up to support us, it deserves our support.
 
Hey Kelly, if you want this to get back on track you should post some photos of common mouldings. Many people here have used them but don't know it because they bought it from the middle man. Most framers don't buy box quantity but those who do buy it that way use a lot of moulding. I buy a couple/few hundred boxes per year and there are many others like me.

I wonder if all framers have boycotted 84 Lumber for selling picture frame moulding.
 
We buy our strainer stock in box quantities from Nickell at very good prices. Picking up an order soon.
 
Jeff Rodier said:
Hey Kelly, if you want this to get back on track you should post some photos of common mouldings. Many people here have used them but don't know it because they bought it from the middle man. Most framers don't buy box quantity but those who do buy it that way use a lot of moulding. I buy a couple/few hundred boxes per year and there are many others like me.

I wonder if all framers have boycotted 84 Lumber for selling picture frame moulding.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't be able to share photos of the custom mouldings we produce. But a lot of our House Stock mouldings have been around for quite some time because they sell so well. Our #1 stock seller is our canvas stretcher bar.
 
Kelly @ Nickell said:
Thank you Pat and stcstc for you comments. At this time I think it's best if I just stop commenting because too many people seem to be stuck on our Outlet Store (which by the way is the smallest faction of our company) and not on our company as a whole.
Click to expand...

Kelly - please don't. You guys run your business the way you choose and you have that right. The vendor/competitor/outlet/manufacturer thing exists whether you are here or not. Your model is your model and that's that. Some will get it, some won't. Perhaps by sticking around and participating you can win some over. I'm not sure I fully understand still what the differences are, but I feel that there is a smaller number of old fogies like me that give a carp anyways. You've got stuff to add to this forum so stick around and do so.
 
I think the discussion is a bit stuck on a philosophical point and not the practical one. A lot of you seem revolted by the thought Nickell might somehow steal a customer. I'm close enough to Nickell that my customers could run up to Elkhart and buy directly from them. The fact is I've yet to have a customer come in and say "Hey I got that same moulding direct from the manufacturer and boy, was it ever cheap!" I don't think the average person is willing to put the effort into it. I don't think too many people are going to drive in from New Jersey to save on picture frame moulding.
 
I too am close enough to be there in 15 minutes. It is not just four sticks of wood folks!
 
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