Has anyone seen anything like this?

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Patricia Kotnour

Patricia Kotnour

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A customer brought me two scroll type pictures that were done by the Dali Lama and are originals. I'm not really sure what they are and wonder if anyone can tell me? The material came from a monistary in France and seems to be paper, but feels like cloth, almost like a gauze. It is very fine and looks a bit like parchment, but again feels like cloth and has a ragged edge that looks like cloth as well. The material is cream color. The sketches are ink and as a whole look very fragil. She wants me to float them so that the edges will show. Not sure what to do with them. Has anyone seen anything like this? If so what is it? Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
 
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I would be happy to post pictures, but I can't figure out how to bring one into the G. I've never been able to get it to work.
 
Tibetan scrolls are often done on a fine cloth with a heavy coating on it
that can give it a smooth surface. Bamboo paper is another material that is
used in the Himalayan region, but it is not likely to be used in a scroll, since their borders are sewn together.


Hugh
 
Fine cloth with heavy coating.

preservator said:
Tibetan scrolls are often done on a fine cloth with a heavy coating on it
that can give it a smooth surface. Bamboo paper is another material that is
used in the Himalayan region, but it is not likely to be used in a scroll, since their borders are sewn together.


Hugh
Click to expand...

From the sounds of it, this could be what these scrolls are made of. Do you have any suggestions as to how to float them. I do think starch and rice paper would work for hinging, but as fine as they are, you can almost see through them, the hinges may show. Any other suggestions.
 
Any moisture might cause profound change in the scroll. This true of Asian scrolls, which are assembled on mounting boards, which makes them quite reactive, to moisture. If the edges of the scrolls can be overmatted, then edge support strips are a good option. They can be made with tabs cut out of their back sides, which can be folded out onto the back mats and linen taped down, there, when they get long. If the edges must be shown, then
some sort of sandwich may be the only option. Jim has some good designs that incorporate polyester sheet, which might work, here. Baer mentioned tulle and if these are calligraphic, only, that might also work.


Hugh
 
So, it seems that pasted hinges are not suitable here. You need to show the edges, right?

I suggest a fine mesh fabric overlay. Stabiltex would be my choice, as it is supple and very sheer. No adhesives on the item, and it would be well supported. The technique is described in PFM, May, 2005, page 49, Remounting Old Needle Art.
 
Thanks everyone for your help. I think that I will take them to the experts that I use here when there is something I'm not sure about and ask them to look at them before deciding what to do. This is one of those projects that comes in once in 10 years and given that the scrolls are irreplaceable I want to be absolutely sure before going any further with them. I can generally find a way to attach just about everything with out doing harm, but these things have me stumped. I don't think there is any way to float them and get the effect that this customer wants. The edges really give these pieces an unusual dimension and it doesn't seem like using the Stablitex would work without taking something from the 3 dimensional look of the edges. Thanks for all your help, but I think I will defer to the experts here before proceeding. Better safe than sorry. Thanks again.
 
Gee, Pat, you've gotten suggestions from both Hugh and Jim.....who better experts than that?? ;)
 
Without seeing the piece, and sometimes even handling and testing it, it can be hard to make cast iron recommendations; if I'm understanding the thread correctly (and that is not necessairly a given!) Pat is not quite sure what she is dealing with. If they are "just" ink sketches, they are not traditional thangkas.

A good person to consult with would be Ann Shaftel, who is pretty well THE western expert on thangkas old and new; even if this is not what Pat's piece is, the chances are Ann would be able to figure out what the support is, and an appropriate mounting method. Her email is AnnShaftel@mac.com

here is an article she wrote on the conservation of thangkas: http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0197-1360(199121)30:1<3:CTOTT>2.0.CO;2-T

Rebecca
 
Thank you Rebecca, you are absolutely correct. I have already spoken to Jim Miller personally about these scrolls and his advise was to physically take them to someone who could make a distinction and help me decide what to do with them. I am a good framer and I do very unique work, but I also know my limitations. This is not my field of expertise and if anyone had the impression that I did not take Hugh or Jim's advise as expert, it couldn't be further from the truth. It is just that neither one of them are close enough where I can physically take these art pieces to them to look at them, so I will take them to the people I have used many times before. In my book it is the smart thing to do.

For the record, if anyone knows that I respect their opinion it is Jim Miller, and with all due respect for his opinion I took his advise.
 
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