Question Hanging Oversized Metal Frames

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FrameOfMind

FrameOfMind

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I have a customer who insisted on using museum glass for a 53x40 metal frame. Because of the weight I am very scared about using the metal wire attachments. I was thinking about metal security hangers but i've never actually used them so I don't know how they work. Any suggestions on how I should tell my customer how to hang this massive frame??
 
What profile of metal moulding is specified?

When a frame is oversized I use "D" hangers for metal frames. No wire and a label indicating the hanging is via the hardware only.
 
You don't say which profile of a metal frame, but the weakest link is that the bottom and top are only held by an "interference fit" created by the tension of the corner hardware. A frame that size can also flex causing the glass to break.

Most "Secutity" hardware suspends the frame from the top of the frame. You could also add additional "t" locks on the bottom, or you could use Frame Teks security hangers all around the perimeter. http://frametek.com/HTML/FrameSecure/fsectips.html

Framesecure is the absolute most secure system for hanging metal frames. DISCLOSURE: I am not a consultant for Frame Tek and I receive no monetary compensation from them, however they generously donate samples of their products to my installation classes and I recommend them because they are great. :) You can get samples from them too. See the webpage.

But it still won't stop the flexing problem.

If we were asked to frame something this size with glass, we would insist on a metal profile that would allow a solid wood backing that would allow the metal frame to be screwed to the frame (yes, drill holes in the back of the frame) and attach hanging hardware to the wood (like a z-bar) , not the frame. If conservation is an issue, the wood could be wrapped with Marvelseal before being inserted into the frame.
 
Rob Markoff said:
If we were asked to frame something this size with glass, we would insist on a metal profile that would allow a solid wood backing that would allow the metal frame to be screwed to the frame (yes, drill holes in the back of the frame) and attach hanging hardware to the wood (like a z-bar)
Click to expand...

Abosultely right for this type of situation. You need more support, or an appropriate metal (or stacked metal) frame to support this glass from flexing. Or move to Optium and remove the flexing issue but still have weight issues.
 
The weight of the frame of that size will probably not exceed 17 pounds (Glass ~ 14-3/4 #). That is large, but not ginormous.

I don’t believe that you necessarily need wooden support or Z-bars for this frame, if you string the wire through metal screw-in eyes from the bottom, through the sides, and again through the bottom.

TwoQuarters.jpg


This way, the weight of the frame package is supported at the bottom moulding rail (generally the point that suffers the most stress), and the weight of the frame will help pull the right and left sides together.

Just make sure that the wire (#8 will probably do, ~ 50 pound ?), is free to move through the two side rails i.e. not “knotted”, and you should be fine.
 
WallBuddies for metal frames they work well......
I have hung OEM metal frames 40x60's with glass & single mats
No Bowing & they are still hanging.

Even after our oHIo earthquake a while back(lol)

Just another idea...take it or leave it.
 
It isn't the hanging I am concerned with (but even the wall buddies assume the bottom of the frame won't fall out :) -

It is the potential flexing of the frame/lite of glass that could cause it to snap getting it in and out of a vehicle.
 
I sometimes use a strip or 2 of Z-bar joining the Vetical legs of the frame. It can be a little bit of a challenge to attach Z bar, but I have used aluminum metal screw eye inserts with bolts and nuts.
Bill, sorry but that method we used to use back in the 80's and it tweeks the frame, doesn't support during transport, glass can pop out of frame & wire stretches. I don't recommend.
 
If the bottom falls out His Bad...LOL
The transportation of large pieces only take care & attention.
Just make sure they have a flat surface to lean it against or lay on.
Tell them Two people will be able to handle this better than one. The 40x 60's I handle by myself. But made sure everything was in place before I moved them from one place to the the other.

let us know what ya do...or how it plays out
 
If the bottom falls out His Bad...LOL
Click to expand...
Sorry, bottom falls out ... Product Liability Lawsuit.
Also, you can give customers all the "instructions" you want. What if they move, sell the art, kids play in that area....
I think as professional framers, our minimum responsibility is to make sure anything going out of the shop is SAFE.
 
CB Art & Framing said:
Sorry, bottom falls out ... Product Liability Lawsuit.
Also, you can give customers all the "instructions" you want. What if they move, sell the art, kids play in that area....
I think as professional framers, our minimum responsibility is to make sure anything going out of the shop is SAFE.
Click to expand...

Yep, and when the sh*t hits the fan, who has their sticker right on the back? Proud of the work they've done. That's why I'm with Rob on this one. If they are going to insist on glass (especially Museum Glass), a simple $3 piece of wood on the back would help support the whole structure at this size.

Or sell them a wood frame.
 
pwalters said:
f they are going to insist on glass (especially Museum Glass), a simple $3 piece of wood on the back would help support the whole structure at this size.

Or sell them a wood frame.
Click to expand...

This should have been done with museum acrylic. We wouldn't be talking about all these other issues if it was acrylic.
 
Actually what everyone is talking about has nothing to do with his question..
Hanging Oversized Metal Frames... maybe I read it wrong.

But it is all good useful imput....
Drumroll for Larry. Bada Bing!~


With experience you learn things...
 
The metal Frame is a Nielsen 117-238. Im leaning toward the Security Hangers from FrameTek. I've never installed them before so Im a little apprehensive, but it seems to me that it would probably be the best way to go. As far as the flexing issue...could I just line the edges with stripes of wood paneling?
 
FrameOfMind said:
The metal Frame is a Nielsen 117-238. Im leaning toward the Security Hangers from FrameTek. I've never installed them before so Im a little apprehensive, but it seems to me that it would probably be the best way to go. As far as the flexing issue...could I just line the edges with stripes of wood paneling?
Click to expand...

I'm not exactly sure what you are proposing. Can you elaborate?

If you are using the N1178 profile, you might be able to just stuff the back with enough full sheets of foam (or other similar) to fill the frame enough to help guard against your flexing issue.

As far as the hanging process, if you aren't going the hardboard way to give you something to anchor and are going to use the security hangers just make sure that the weight will be distributed on the two side rails and the bottom rail (in two spot preferably). Don't expect that profile and frame size to support any weight from the top rail.
 
When clients request oversize glass in a frame, it is worth asking them how they would feel hanging a picture window on their wall. The frame at the edge may give a false sense of security, but large lites of glass are too dangerous to hang on a residental wall.


Hugh
 
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