Question Hanging Heavy Mirror on DryWall

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MerpsMom

MerpsMom

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
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I'm doing several mirrors. One will be hung on a sheetrock wall behind which is....nothing but air as the space is for a pocket door.

Designer wants to use a wooden cleat or Z-Bar (my suggestion.) The mirror and frame is 30 x 48 OD. With no studs, how do you do that? Mollies? Seems that might interfere with the "space". (I also don't know how much clearance he has in the pocket.)

Thank God I'm not hanging it, but I told him I'd ask about methods.

Cathie
 
You don;t need to use Z bar on a mirror that size.

Actualy you can use two 75Lb hangers. With d hooks on the frame. Never use wire on a mirror.

Also that size mirror isn't really that heavy, if its 1/4 Plate mirror it would weight 3 lbs per sq foot. + the weight of the frame. Not knowing the frame being used or the width, Just a mirror that OD size that you gave would weigh only 30 lbs. So take away for the smaller sized mirror and add the frame i doubt it would way anymore than 30 lbs.

But z bar is the safest, but not needed
 
"Rule of Thumb" Dave. Just use the strap or D hangers with the 75 lb. hooks and you'll be fine. I had one about that same size on a sheet rock wall in my store for a couple of years with no problems. It would still be there, but I sold it.

Lori
 
Still no good reason given
 
If there are no studs, DON'T DO IT.

With the weight of the mirror it will pull the sheetrock over time and it will eventually give.

Normally you would only need regular hooks for this, z-bar is always good also but with nothing holding the sheetrock in place other than the framing for a pocket door, (If you haven't ever been involved in framing of a pocket door, there is next to NO structure involved) it might even pull the door out of alignment.

If it is going to be done anyway, make sure the nails are not very long, the door typically sits in a slide VERY close to the sheetrock.

I would make the mirror and give NO advice.

Bob
 
Dave, we were always taught that you'd want the weight of anything fairly heavy distributed on the vertical rails. If you use a wire, it was said that the stress would "bow" the verticals and possibly pull out the screws and D-rings.

Anyway, that may not suffice, but that's what we were told years ago.

Cathie

Now why didn't I think of WallBuddies?? Sometimes I think I've gone into the netherworld of my mind. And I still think 40 lbs of mirror is pretty heavy: I wrestled two of them around last week and sure felt it. :)
 
Makes sense Cathy and I would normally use either WallBuddies or a Z-bar with this. However most frames of this size are quite substantial and I have hung mirrors twice this size with wire with no problems. Several in my own home.
 
Yes, I concur with the idea of doing what I do and letting them do what they do. :)

But all the info is instructive to have. I really appreciate our board.

MM
 
The 30" HD Hangman is rated for over 300 pounds.
The 18" HD Hangman is rated for 180 pounds.
The Hangman hardware is more forgiving than Zbar to less than perfectly flat walls.

The pocket door has almost zero clearance on the inside of the wall. We mounted a mirror on the wall in our bathroom with a pocket door. The finish on the door was scratched on the first open/close and the screw hardware only extended 1/2" into the space.
 
Dave said:
...I have hung mirrors twice this size with wire with no problems. Several in my own home.
Click to expand...

The typical hanging hardware for a large mirror is two-hole or three-hole D-rings, intended for direct wall connection without wire. The stress of hanging by the D-rings would be vertical, and the hangers are designed for that. If a wire is attached to multi-hole D-rings, the lateral stress created by the wire on the screws often splits the wood. When that happens, the mirror often falls.

Many framers have been asked to repair broken frames on mirrors, carried into our shops with one end of the wire dragging the ground. Or, if an ignorant consumer adds a piece of extension-cord to the D-rings, the wire itself may break.

If a wire is to be used on a mirror, three caveats apply: (1) the frame moulding must be substantial enough to withstand the lateral stress, which tends to cause inward bowing on the side rails; (2) the wire must be sturdy enough to support the weight of the framed mirror, which is unusually heavy for its size; and (3) the frame attachments must be multiple-hole devices that are designed for lateral stress, such as SuperSteel hangers.

I always recommend at least two wall connections, and WallBuddies are still my favorite general-purpose hardware. Magic Markers by Picture Perfect are also very good. Z-Bar is my preference when more than two wall connections are needed.
 
It's one thing to hang something on drywall with the support of studs every 16". It's quite another when the drywall is essentially free-standing. Go to Home Depot and pick up the end of a sheet of drywall. It's not made to be a structural support. That's why walls have a structural system that the drywall hangs on. Once you have the structure, the drywall can be trusted over short runs.

The only potential solution I could think of would be using something like a gallery cable system that was attached to the ceiling trusses. I wouldn't use the top plate of the wall because it has no vertical support.
 
Take a trip to your local big box hardware store and look at how their pocket doors are put together. You'll find that they have 1x4 supports on the sides of the pocket at the front, middle and back of the unit. The sheetrock is not free standing it is attached to those. There is also a header across the top of the door and it's opening to support the weight of the ceiling and of course the door track.

A cleat could be attached to those supports with screws no longer than 1 1/4" in length (typical). A good way to tell how much clearance you have is to measure from the door to the inside edge of the trim (the edge against the sheetrock). Mollies can be used but I usually close the door while I'm putting in the mollies then pull the screws out and use shorter ones to be sure to clear the door. I've done this several times and only screwed the door stuck open the first time. Luckily I had caught the back edge of the door where it didn't show.

Given the size of the mirror, 2 D-rings and 75lb hangers are probably adequate although I'd probably use 100lb hooks. Use the brass hooks that use 3 nails as I've seen the cheapy single nail hooks fail even if they are rated for 100lb.

Rule of thumb I tend to trust hooks for about 1/3rd of their rated weight. I may be off base but I think the rating is the weight at which they fail and I like a healthy safety margin (different brands rate differently and there is no way to tell which is which).

As far as wires on mirrors, the thing to understand is there is a lot more stress on the wire than just the weight of the mirror itself. You have to consider the angle of the wire on the back. A 50lb mirror can easily put more than 200 lbs of stress on a wire or even more if you're one of those that like to put the wire on tight. Whereas it will only put 25lbs on each hanger if you go straight to the D-ring.

Frank Larson
I'm baaaacccckkk!
 
Dave said:
Still no good reason given
Click to expand...

Try this one on for size. Architecturally and Designers (not decorators) will almost always call out for mirrors to be mounted fully vertical and flat to the wall. Especially on one that is large.

When viewed flat, the fenestration of the reflected room matches the rest of the room. If there is a 1/2" tilt, the fenestration can be optically off by as much as a foot or more. Which I can verify is very unsatisfying.... and in some cases nauseating.

So don't just throw it up on the wall. :D

Sometimes there are rules, and sometimes those rules have real reasons. Not just because somebody has been teaching that way for 40 years.
 
Cathie, I install art for a living. I would need to know more about the project but I'd have to say you need the strongest low-profile anchor you can find. Two suggestions are the ez-anchor and an alligator anchor. Aliigator is not simply a plastic screw anchor although it is plastic. The difference is it twists up on the other side of the drywall gently and like the twisting of a rubber band on a childs airplane. I would definitely consider using a Z-bar as the support can be spread out over a short distance by several random points. You can always drill more anchor points in the bar. Remember, the install is only as secure as the drywall's integrity. Another option may be to use a gallery hanging suspended from the ceiling with wires and such. Good luck!
 
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